[Raana]

Made 3 bets on last minute on [Soccer] [Brazil - Copa Paulista] Santos vs Sao Jose EC On bet ID 611009875 on [1st Half] and two more smaller bets 611009949, 611009994 on whole match
Match started 11-00AM pinnacle's time
on 12-21 PM (in mid of 2nd half) I got refunded two bets on whole match and on 12-24 PM my bet on 1st half was refunded
Due to incorrect match-ups. Later it turned out that means "Sao Jose FC" should be instead of "Sao Jose EC"
Result of the game can be found here http://www.resultados-futbol.com/par...Fc/Sao-Jose-Fc

Pinnacle support refused to review bet calculations. Maybe they are right, but it looks suspicious and unfair because of this:
The fact is they made my bet for 1st half 611009875 refunded in mid of 2nd half. After they knew result of 1st Half and, I suppose, they knew their losses. I made max available bet on 1st half result.
They could also say that in was not Santos but Santos FC.
It looks like it was even the reserve Santos team: "Santos FC II" http://dev.bmbets.com/football/brazi...-jose-1558984/ which they didn't mention in line also Pin will make all such bets refunded or selected ones?
Here the second team called even Joseense: http://shark.cdn.md/Comparison/Default.aspx?id=2541318
Also I may think it could be pinnacle's way to avoid arbitrage scanners when they on purpose change team's name like Santos to Santos FC or Sao Jose to San Jose Maybe Sao Jose FC to Sao Jose EC was the same kind.
It wasn't my mistake with incorrect team names. I could think it was another Sao Jose, more qualified or less qualified, playing main squad or by reserve team squad, and it will be totally my risks and my mistakes. You see that pinnacle is not responsible for correctness of team names (sometimes they even skew team names on purpose) and I excluded that risks in my betting model.


I made bet completely on technical analysis using their API regardless what Sao Jose it was or even was it Santos or any other Brazilian team.
I just lost won money and found it out just in middle of 2nd half when the first half was completely finished.


And I don't think it's fair. Line before match was correct. You can see it here http://dev.bmbets.com/football/brazi...asian-handicap
Pinnacle's odds in a minute before match start were: Santos -1 1.649 SaoJose +1 2.24 , match under2.5 2.32 over2.5 1.574, no 1x2 odds


I offered pin to give me compensation about half of winnings/loses (of total of all 3 bets, one bet was lost, one was half-won, one on 1st half won). Which they rejected by only phrase: "We regret you feel that way"

[lilpete]

you might have a caase, let SBR look into it for you.

[Optional]

Later it turned out that means "Sao Jose FC" should be instead of "Sao Jose EC"

Pinnacle support refused to review bet calculations. Maybe they are right, but it looks suspicious and unfair because of this:
The fact is they made my bet for 1st half 611009875 refunded in mid of 2nd half. After they knew result of 1st Half and, I suppose, they knew their losses. I made max available bet on 1st half result.

They could also say that in was not Santos but Santos FC.

It looks like it was even the reserve Santos team: "Santos FC II" http://dev.bmbets.com/football/brazi...-jose-1558984/ which they didn't mention in line also Pin will make all such bets refunded or selected ones?

Pinny are definitely not prone to coming up with flakey reasons to cancel markets due to potential losses on one match.

They would have cancelled the entire market, not selected bets. If they also did not cancel losers when things like this happened then the forums would be awash with complaints.

Although what you have been told seems like a small error in the listing, it is an error and is a genuine reason to void the market.

Personally I suspect the second issue you came up with yourself is more likely to be the main reason for the cancel. And the whole situation likely came to their attention when players who had bet Santos started complaining they thought it was the 1st team and not the reserves.


You're welcome to still fill in a complaint form and maybe SBR can confirm the details of the situation but honestly, Pinny would not have voided the market unless they felt like they had to to be fair to all bettors.

[Raana]

Pinny are definitely not prone to coming up with flakey reasons to cancel markets due to potential losses on one match.

I've seen comments from owners of top bookies and they definitely are not saints. Can't see why pinnacle's head or a clerk who voided bets can be. They are unfair and make mistakes like all people do.
To avoid such mistakes and be trully fair to bettors pin should verify pre-match info thoroughly. It's their work not mine.
Handicap kef for Santos downed from 1.676 to 1.649 in pin's prematch odds. Looks like nobody even knew it could be reserves to play for Santos. Also I can see in history (http://scanbet.ru/archive/pinnacle) that pin showed their odds only 2hours before match start. When market was already made by dozen of other bookies.
Pin pointed that San Jose was not the one. But Santos was neitherSantos fonbet.jpg (http://results.fonsport.bet/?locale=en)
And pin found it out in middle of 2nd half? Too much mistakes for fair bookie in a single match.
I've filled in a complaint form

[Optional]

I doubt anyone in this industry is a saint But they do want to make money and getting a name for being unfair would lose them a lot more money than voiding action on one B grade Brazillian game, whatever the profit situation.

Hopefully SBR can help in some way

[Raana]

I do not see A+ rated bookies right now. Maybe pinnacle could be when they solve their problem with constant website errors.
Also pin reduced withdrawal methods for my currency from 3 to 1 during 2 recent years. And that last method has low maximum (about 230usd free of charge withdrawal per month) Russia is about 8% of their clients. Even 18% according to alexa So why pin doesn't bother?
GB rating has fallen down after brexit, S&P marked USA as AA+ not AAA anymore. I see the point why even best bookie doesn't have maximum rating all the time.

By the way, I don't know what's going on with my case. How can I check it? Did SBR receive my documents?

[Raana]

I think I'm getting clear how pinnacle calculates bets and why this story happened to me.

Today was the soccer game between Hacken U21 and Malmo FF U21. Happily I took good prices (after line moved significantly) for 1st Half and Full Game. Put max available amount on it.
Game started 08-00AM pinnacle's time, ended 10-00AM
Pin calculated my bets for 1st half about 10-25 AM (1 hour 40 minutes after 1st half ended). But I've waited for at least 10 minutes (and maybe more, didn't count exactly) till I've got bets for Full Game calculated.
Sometimes pin calculates bets for 1st half soon after 1st half ended, but not this time.
If pin found result for 1st half why it took pin more than 10 minutes to calculate full game bets? In trusted source where pin is getting results for U21 Sweden league it will be full result with half time result. In sources I searched game result I can't imagine that it would be partial update for 1st half 1h40minutes after 1st half ended and 10 minutes later update for full result.

I see this explanation. A) 1st half market and Full game market are different markets. B) Pin is trying to balance money for both teams (handicap, moneyline) / both results (under-over).
So when pin receives gross result like "(pin's juice, let's say 2.5%)*(total money in the market let's say 1000usd)" pin says it's OK: +25usd for pinnacle. When pin is losing -10usd in market it's also OK. Cuz with same probability pin could get +60usd.
But when pin gets -300usd in the market they start protocol to find out why it happened. I could be:
1) bad line, rarely but happens
2) wrong time of game start e.g. game started 30minutes before and there was plenty of odds on 1 side
3) inside information like bettor from the city where this teams play won much money, especially for leagues like Copa Paulista or SwedenU21
4) wrong team names
....
5) just lucky punter

I'm sure that pinnacle performs such protocol every time they have enexpectedly high loss.
That's why pin waited 10 minutes till Full game bets calculation today.

Going back to my case in 1st post of this thread.
Based on I've put maximum available amount on outcomes, I see that it was a few opposite bets on Santos' handicap, for example. And a punter who did one of this bets found the half time result 0-1 and wrote letter to pin that it is another Sao Jose, more qualified, so get my money back he said.
And pin did it. Pin was trying to calculate bets for 1st half, found result 0-1, noticed their high losses, executed such protocol, found out the complaint from punter and decided "Yeah, surely, we got such big loss because it was another Sao Jose"
In fact it also was Santos B instead of Santos. Joseense instead of San Jose. Santos II instead of Santos. I've put links above that proves any of this version. And anyone who put bet which was lost after 1st half could say "Please, get my money back, it was another Santos"
In fact pin gave their odds only two hours before game and it was stable till game start. Pin shown their odds only after dozen of other bookies formed the market. You could see that in bmbets and scanbet history of odds.
So odds were correct. And that's why decision not to calculate bets made on such odds seems to me unfair.

There are plenty of secondary soccer leagues, club friendlies like Kenya Premier League, Iceland women league and so on in summer (season break). If you lost 1st half, find the source that proves it was team' reserves instead of main squad or another brazilian team with similar name. Pin can refund your lost bet. You see that.

[Optional]

I know you remain suspicious Raana but if they really did regularly make bias grading decisions as policy like you suggest, then we would notice a pattern of complaints like yours over time.

[Raana]

Today was a friendly match between Svit (Svk) and Poprad B
pinnacle had FK Poprad in line
Does anyone want to refund his lost bets on this game?

[Raana]

Another example of pinnacle's best practices in industry.
There was a game Shanghai Greenland - Tianjin Quanjian today
Pinnacle calculated first half bets according to result 0-0 in ~ mid of 2nd half
And this result stayed was for ~4 hours!
After that time someone told pin they were wrong: 1st half ended 1-0.
I've seen result 1-0 for Half Time in flashscore but decided that maybe pin has more authoritative source to grade bets and, yeah, was just happy to use money in other bets. It turned out that flashscore knows better than pinnacle, which seems to be compliant with highest standards in industry.
pin tianjin.jpg

But it was about some bets I've made and followed. Just a few among tons of games every day in summer. Of course, irregular games like Club Friendlies have more uncertainties. But Chinese FA Cup is a regular game.
Why so many mistakes with bets calculation again and again?

[Raana]

Didn't receive any updates from SBR about this case.
How to get one? Recent mail to help@sportsbookreview.com is not answered

[Raana]

Made automatically through API some bets on game eventid 639037137 in period between 18:30 and 18:50 my local time
Independent monitoring of pinnacle kefs shows up that line was available for 2 hours after game started

Game started 17-00 my local time soccerway proves this

So bets has to be voided

But pinnacle's support did not respond in 1h50min

[Raana]

Pinnacle's csd answered in more than 3hours, 20min after voided full time bets, and after another 1 hour voided 1st half bets.
It's terrible. You have to check all results manually including kick-off time. Pinnacle sports is absolutely unreliable on that.

[Optional]

You must be the biggest Pinny hater I have seen around for a long time Raana.

If you make a bet after the match is underway it gets voided.

So, Pinny does not mange to close every one of the thousands of markets they offer on time every time.

What are you really trying to say? They should let youi take a shot an hour after the game starts and honour it?


It's been two months since you last had a whine claiming they purposely mosgraded games on you.

Notice how not one single other person has appeared to even empathize, let alone back up your allegation in those months?


GO PLAY AT ANOTHER BOOK AND STOP WITH THE TROLLING ABOUT PINNY.

Or at least come up with a valid complaint you paronoid shot taking troll.