[sticky]

Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've had any kind of problem with a bookie but WH have just shafted me for an (admittedly) quite small amount but enough to make me angry.
I've had the account for something like 5 years, hundreds of deposits and withdrawals, recently added a new debit card (when the previous one expired), deposited £30 and played some slots. Got my balance up to £277 and decided to cash out.
They asked me to submit proof of ID/address which I thought was odd because I'm pretty sure I did so 5 years ago. Anyway I sent them clear, high-res photos of passport, a council tax bill (from 2 weeks ago) and the front and back of my new debit card.
Couple of days later they replied to say that my documents had failed the checks, my account would be permanently closed and funds confiscated.
Now before anyone asks - all personal details on my account and correct and true, all IDs submitted match these details, all documents are real.
I've heard similar stories in the past and people always suggest contacting IBAS so I did this, raised a case via their online form. That was about a week ago, I never received a case number or any kind of contact from IBAS so was curious if anyone on here had a similar experience and how long IBAS took to respond and the contact will hill, etc.?
I also wanted to ask, should I, in the meantime also raise a case with SBR or casinomeister or another intermediary, or just chill and wait for something to happen with IBAS?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Thanks

[DeathAdder]

Sounds like a sticky situation... I can vouch for B365 if you need to find a new book.

[Spacefrog]

Sounds like a sticky situation... I can vouch for B365 if you need to find a new book.

The op is asking for help to get his money back.
He is not asking about new books.
This is your 35th post defending b3.65
Why don't you just post your referral code? With would be much more honest and clear.

[Spacefrog]

Sticky,

I don't have experience dealing with IBAS, but i have dealt with several regulatory bodies in the past and they all tend to let things go for an eternity.
If you think you have a good case, submit it to SBR. We all have seen here several cases of success.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

I'll save you time and say IBAS will rule in favour of the book, as they always do.

[dealer wins]

This sounds like a genuine case of Whill being rogue to me. OP definitely complain to the regulator and take them to the small claims court if necessary. They wont turn up and you will win 100%

[Optional]

Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've had any kind of problem with a bookie but WH have just shafted me for an (admittedly) quite small amount but enough to make me angry.
I've had the account for something like 5 years, hundreds of deposits and withdrawals, recently added a new debit card (when the previous one expired), deposited £30 and played some slots. Got my balance up to £277 and decided to cash out.
They asked me to submit proof of ID/address which I thought was odd because I'm pretty sure I did so 5 years ago. Anyway I sent them clear, high-res photos of passport, a council tax bill (from 2 weeks ago) and the front and back of my new debit card.
Couple of days later they replied to say that my documents had failed the checks, my account would be permanently closed and funds confiscated.
Now before anyone asks - all personal details on my account and correct and true, all IDs submitted match these details, all documents are real.
I've heard similar stories in the past and people always suggest contacting IBAS so I did this, raised a case via their online form. That was about a week ago, I never received a case number or any kind of contact from IBAS so was curious if anyone on here had a similar experience and how long IBAS took to respond and the contact will hill, etc.?
I also wanted to ask, should I, in the meantime also raise a case with SBR or casinomeister or another intermediary, or just chill and wait for something to happen with IBAS?
Any advice would be appreciated!
Thanks

You can write to second_opinion@willhill.com and have a more senior person review the issue.

IBAS is hit and miss as to whether they reply or not. I have had success writing to to the UK Gambling commission and CCing IBAS and asking the UKGC to help find some way to have the dispute mediated as William Hill won't discuss the matter and IBAS does not respond.

You are welcome to submit an SBR complaint form too but if you have failed KYC WillHill are just going to call it a security issue and refuse to give SBR or anyone else (including you) any more details so it's unlikely we can do much more than offer advice on your argument and going through the IBAS thing really.

One last thing that might be worth trying is asking the European Commission to try to step in and resolve the dispute. I dont think WillHill subscribes as yet but a couple of UK books do adhere to EUC rulings the same way they do with IBAS so think it's worth a try http://ec.europa.eu/odr

[jjgold]

It seems more and more UK books looking for reasons not to pay customers

[Optional]

It seems more and more UK books looking for reasons not to pay customers

The new laws have definitely given them more reason to muck people around. And the rules about not telling players anything to properly justify what they have done is just making bettors suspicious of the entire UK industry.

[sticky]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Optional - I've emailed the second opinion address, just to see what kind of response I get.
I've also had a look into small claims court, seems pretty easy, the court fee is cheap and I could potentially get it refunded if (when) I win.
I mean - this *is* illegal, right? I know sometimes with sports betting the settlement can be debated, 'palpable' incorrect odds, timing of bet placement etc. etc. or with live casino, people money laundering by betting on both sides, but a SLOT MACHINE win? It should be cut and dry.

[Optional]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Optional - I've emailed the second opinion address, just to see what kind of response I get.
I've also had a look into small claims court, seems pretty easy, the court fee is cheap and I could potentially get it refunded if (when) I win.
I mean - this *is* illegal, right? I know sometimes with sports betting the settlement can be debated, 'palpable' incorrect odds, timing of bet placement etc. etc. or with live casino, people money laundering by betting on both sides, but a SLOT MACHINE win? It should be cut and dry.

Unfortunately they have taken your money as they have not been able to identify you properly, or have identified you as someone other than who you say you are. Nothing to do with the casino play. Under the UK legislation it looks like this is legal. Well it's been how the books have been interpreting it and I am not aware of the premise being tested in a court as yet.

I think your best bet is to convince IBAS (and/or the EUC) you are who you say you are and are willing to provide any reasonable evidence to support that, up to and including walking into one of their shops and identifying yourself in person if that is an option for you. Basically force them into the position of having to make WillHill justify the KYC fail to them.

A civil court magistrate is very likely to just tell you they defer to the regulators ruling anyway imho.

[sticky]

Unfortunately they have taken your money as they have not been able to identify you properly, or have identified you as someone other than who you say you are. Nothing to do with the casino play. Under the UK legislation it looks like this is legal. Well it's been how the books have been interpreting it and I am not aware of the premise being tested in a court as yet.

I think your best bet is to convince IBAS (and/or the EUC) you are who you say you are and are willing to provide any reasonable evidence to support that, up to and including walking into one of their shops and identifying yourself in person if that is an option for you. Basically force them into the position of having to make WillHill justify the KYC fail to them.

A civil court magistrate is very likely to just tell you they defer to the regulators ruling anyway imho.

Ok so to update - second_opinion responded and initially made my feel more positive about the situation, a guy named Gareth Grey responded and told me that my passport and council tax bill failed security checks and could I please provide new proof of ID and address. So I figured 'no problem' and sent (again, clear, high res) photos of my UK drivers license (showing current home address) and a bank statement from Lloyds, 1 week old.

2 days later Gareth replies:
"Dear Mr Taylor,

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry to hear of the problems that you have recently experienced with your William Hill account.

Unfortunately we were unable to pass your recent documentation can you please reply back to this email attaching the requested documents, please ensure documents are unedited and in JPEG format.

Once we have received these requested documents we can assist you further.

Look forward to your reply."

Now this starts to give me hints about what the problem might be, as he specifically says unedited and JPEG format. So I figure ok, maybe they're suspicious because the last photos were taken on 2 different phones and one of the JPEGs was resized from the original to make it smaller to send by email.

So I got my phone, replied to his mail, and attached real-time photos of my documents again, nice and clear, same phone, the timestamp on the files would be in-line and that day. Sent.

I got an auto-reply saying thanks for my mail and they will get back to me.

Heard nothing for 2 days, replied to Gareth's mail asking if he received the new pics ok.

No reply for 2 days.

Today sent a new mail saying that I was concerned because Gareth had previously been responding to me quite quickly but had suddenly gone silent.

So far no reply.

I think this is the most frustrating and angering thing a company can do - the long periods of complete silence. They clearly think something is wrong with my photographs. I take comfort in the fact that I *know* my passport is real, my drivers license is real, and everything else I've sent them is 100% real.

I assume the silence is the last line of defence. "Oh no we might have to actually pay this guy. Ok just pretend we don't hear him la la la la la "...

It's criminal what they're doing. I'm almost certainly going to small claims next, I could wait the rest of my life for IBAS to respond.

One question I have for you Optional, you say that a civil court is likely to defer to the regulators ruling. How does this process work? I raise a claim, they defer to IBAS before I go to any kind of physical court? Does IBAS then have to respond in a timely manner? I'd pay £25 just to get that to happen.

[arber1]

Ignore IBAS. Try and solve your complaint with WH so you can say you've tried everything you could. Exhaust their "complaints policy" and then when they stop responding to you, file a MoneyClaim online against them. They will probably pay before it gets to court, if not, the court will order them to pay.

That's the best method for dealing with these thieves. That is what they are - thieves.

[Bearly_Legal]

I don't see how you can use the MoneyClaim service to take William Hill to court. The service is only for companies and individuals in England and Wales. WH's trading address is Gibraltar as far as I know.

Completely agree that William Hill are utter filth. How they're an A+ book on here, I'll never know.

[arber1]

Use their head office address in Wood Green

[dealer wins]

Hills are taking the pi$$ here plain and simple.

[Optional]

@Sticky. It sounds like you are handling it well. Your theory about the different phones and re-sizing probably on the right track.

Not sure on the delay but just leave it and wait for a decision for now i suggest. Chances are this Gareth fellow needs to have his recommendation to over rule the first decision approved or something like that.

[sticky]

Good news - just got an email saying that my documents have been received and approved and my account is reopened and I am free to withdraw.
I'm obviously very happy about this but still - what the hell?
I can't believe that their first contact to a customer, after having some sort of difficulty with the provided documents, says "Hi, thanks for sending your documents, unfortunately they did not meet our satisfaction so your account is closed and we are taking your entire balance, we understand this is disappointing but there's nothing you can do, bye now".
And it's only the people who put up a fight get to keep their money.

[jjgold]

Good news - just got an email saying that my documents have been received and approved and my account is reopened and I am free to withdraw.
I'm obviously very happy about this but still - what the hell?
I can't believe that their first contact to a customer, after having some sort of difficulty with the provided documents, says "Hi, thanks for sending your documents, unfortunately they did not meet our satisfaction so your account is closed and we are taking your entire balance, we understand this is disappointing but there's nothing you can do, bye now".
And it's only the people who put up a fight get to keep their money.

[arber1]

Great news Sticky.

[pabonaparte]

Willy Wankers

[Border Gadgie]

Williamhill security/fraud dept are arrogant & ignorant to the extreme, 18 months ago my severely limited 9 year account was suddenly denied to me on I.D. grounds. I thought at the time as I had just changed my desk top computer it was a glitch.......no such luck.
Not to worry I thought and sent in all I.D. as requested, didnt hear a thing back and unless I phoned CS, they just told me to wait......and wait. After a number of months getting the runaround I contacted SBR through a complaint form but this was also ignored.
When I asked for what incorrect information they held about me, so it could be rectified...... I was told they would answer my Subject access request, https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ccess-request/ only if I sent a stamp addressed envelope & cheque for £10 to Gibraltar (although as far as I am aware the security tosspots are based in Leeds U.K.)

Every email was ignored, all phone calls told me I had not sent the correct I.D information, although clearly I had.......so imagine my surprise when after 13 months of no contact I received an email telling me account was now deemed as inactive and that a monthly charge would be applied until it was a nil balance then closed!

I phoned their CS and was now told its not a problem we can pay you the funds and reopen the account....wtf??

So after eventually being paid I closed the account........their depts do not talk to each other, contact is almost impossible and they deliberately make it as difficult as possible in the hope you will give up and they can confiscate your money.

I am in the U.K. and this lot have gone from being one of the best books to a complete shambles......arrrogant arseholes would be kind descripton.