[sbrzol]

You can very occasionally manipulate pinny lines by betting max on early events then immediately betting max on the other side to create a profit. That will get you banned immediately just like our OP im guessing.

Please give an example

[Brooklyn Dick]

This is a bunch of crap. When Pinny puts up a line they could care less which side you bet. And that goes for the future lines on the same event. It is up to Pinny to put up numbers and up to the customer to choose the side. Any complaint by Pinnacle is total BS. This goes for any "Real" book. Which is getting next to impossible to find these days.

If Pinnacle cannot manage to put up 2 way numbers they should just hang it up.

[jjgold]

Very interesting thread. Didn't really realise it was possible to deliberately create opportunities such as this.

What I find disappointing is that Pinnacle would just close the guy down rather than issue a warning not to do it again. One strike and you're out doesn't appear very fair to me.

Using Betfair and Matchbook to play the other side one would think he could get close to the same outcome more often than not?

Possibly although matchbook does not have great tennis volume on games totals..its ok but not enough to make good profits betitng both sides

I do not even think Pinnacle can get hurt with with this type of betting

its penny profits

[Bill Dozer]

Line manipulation is making a bet for the sole purpose of moving the line. Lets say you are betting under in an NBA line at 196.5. Your personal line is 194 so you max bet it. Maybe you bet it again at 195.5. All the sudden the line is at 192. Maybe you moved it because you're sharp or you are a big hitter or maybe others bet it too. Maybe the book just realized they were off market. Well now its advantageous to bet it the other way, you bet the over. You are looking for any number that puts you above vig. In this case, an NBA total, its about 2 points different than what you believe is the right line (calc) . This should be fine. You are playing a real market. At a recreational book like Bodog it will probably get you da boot since you aren't gambling. At Pinnacle, its welcome.

Now if you bet into an empty market, which depending on the book may be managed by automation, for the sole reason of moving the line, youre gonna be considered a pain in the ass. Example: Someone keeps betting under the total on 3rd division soccer as soon it the line comes out. They re-bet it it at tiny amounts to see if the amount of one-sided bets will move it. Maybe they bet it bigger to get a bigger % of money on one side. Then once the line moves once, or moves multiple times after rinse and repeating, the player hammers the other side for all he can. If he wants to stretch the limits further (pun intended) he has a buddy hit it at the same time. A lot of people complain about limits on small markets... well, it's this kind of player that causes the books to protect themselves with smaller limits than they like.

[Bill Dozer]

I haven't looked into this player's account but Im told Pinnacle has warned players who do this in the past and the ones that continue end up having to redeem their full balance. Pinnacle advertises arbers and traders are welcome on their site. That's still the case.

[dealer wins]

It is definitely possible to do what Bill is saying, but Pinny will shut you down quite rightly.

And if you use an agent you will lose big $$$.

Pinny is good enough, arguably the best bookmaker on the planet, dont even think about trying to abuse them!

[Hareeba!]

I haven't looked into this player's account but Im told Pinnacle has warned players who do this in the past and the ones that continue end up having to redeem their full balance. Pinnacle advertises arbers and traders are welcome on their site. That's still the case.

The OP did say Pinnacle asked him about his bets but didn't say it amounted to the issue of a warning.

[King23]

Never experienced that. But I don't do anything dodgy.

And they advertise that they welcome arbers so I doubt that's the issue here.

HAREEBA for the PInnacle Defense , hopefully your getting paid good

[Hareeba!]

HAREEBA for the PInnacle Defense , hopefully your getting paid good

what an ignorant fukwit!

[King23]

what an ignorant fukwit!

Name calling means i am correct

[Optional]

No risk opening an account with a broker??

Yes, all the risks Dealer Wins mentioned plus more.

You will be dealing with a unregulated third party who will not look into any issues you might have with any of their books. (not that I think that is a big thing as books like Pinny rarely leave grading errors un-fixed anyway)

Premium Tradings and Asianconnect88 are both run with an Asian cultural set of values. If they think you are cheating them in any way they are known to confiscate balances. And grey area stuff like you have been doing could easily be seen as cheating by them. I would not take a bonus there personally, just to avoid any possibility of accusations about it later.

But that said, a lot of arbers with big balances use both and we do not see many problems reported.

[evo34]

Pinnacle voided a bet placed about 10 seconds before a darts match started. Pinny voided claiming it had already commenced.

The first time I laughed out loud this month!

[zlatan25]

It is definitely possible to do what Bill is saying, but Pinny will shut you down quite rightly.

And if you use an agent you will lose big $$$.

Pinny is good enough, arguably the best bookmaker on the planet, dont even think about trying to abuse them!

When you say "an agent" you mean a broker , is that correct? What is the danger with a broker? why would a customer using a broker lose big $$$ ??

[zlatan25]

Well you sound open and honest about it so hopefully they take that into account. But if I am understanding you fully that sounds like a bit of an exploitable 'flaw' in their automated player management system so not too surprised they are cracking down on it.

Maybe you can appeal to them that you had no bad intent and would be happy to avoid doing whatever it is exactly that is bothering them if you can keep your account?

Otherwise you can always move onto a broker account to use them. You won't move lines there but you should have bigger limits.

I followed your advice telling them i had no bad intention and asking them clearly what is bothering them so that i don't repeat it again, but as expected their answer was very clear:

"
Dear Client,


This is to inform you that the the decision has been made by our Management and it will not be overturned. "

I never would have expected that from Pinnacle, the only bookmaker where i felt secured from being limited or banned... Pinnacle has changed...

[Hareeba!]

I followed your advice telling them i had no bad intention and asking them clearly what is bothering them so that i don't repeat it again, but as expected their answer was very clear:

"
Dear Client,


This is to inform you that the the decision has been made by our Management and it will not be overturned. "

I never would have expected that from Pinnacle, the only bookmaker where i felt secured from being limited or banned... Pinnacle has changed...

Are you certain that when they contacted you initially and asked questions about your betting that they warn you that it could lead to this?

[zlatan25]

Are you certain that when they contacted you initially and asked questions about your betting that they warn you that it could lead to this?

When they contacted me initialy (the first time they temporarely suspended wagering for my account, some months ago), they asked me many question about by bets and my strategy of betting and i had to provide answers to have my account "unblocked". i have nothing no hide so i answered all their questions (even if i was not very happy to have to explain them my strategies...) and immediately after they had restaured wagering on my account.

[Hareeba!]

When they contacted me initialy (the first time they temporarely suspended wagering for my account, some months ago), they asked me many question about by bets and my strategy of betting and i had to provide answers to have my account "unblocked". i have nothing no hide so i answered all their questions (even if i was not very happy to have to explain them my strategies...) and immediately after they had restaured wagering on my account.

I suspect they regarded that as warning to you. Perhaps you failed to take that on board?

[King23]

I suspect they regarded that as warning to you. Perhaps you failed to take that on board?

Yes defense Lawyer "PERMISSION TO APPROACH THE BENCH PLEASE :

[BoKnowsBest]

I use the VPN for Pinny and their new "offline" BS is crazy. You place a bet and says offline/offline for that match. For years was never like that.

[Hareeba!]

Yes defense Lawyer "PERMISSION TO APPROACH THE BENCH PLEASE :

you're welcome to come back and post when you have something constructive to add to the conversation, else piss off

[USSR80]

Yes, all the risks Dealer Wins mentioned plus more.

You will be dealing with a unregulated third party who will not look into any issues you might have with any of their books. (not that I think that is a big thing as books like Pinny rarely leave grading errors un-fixed anyway)

Premium Tradings and Asianconnect88 are both run with an Asian cultural set of values. If they think you are cheating them in any way they are known to confiscate balances. And grey area stuff like you have been doing could easily be seen as cheating by them. I would not take a bonus there personally, just to avoid any possibility of accusations about it later.

But that said, a lot of arbers with big balances use both and we do not see many problems reported.

Optional,

I am also interested in the opportunity to put through brokers. And your message is very disturbing. Explain that may mean, "they might think that the client is cheating on them?" After all, with this approach there can be no grounds for the confiscation of balance. There must be a legitimate reason for the seizure.
Maybe you have examples of such decisions in relation to clients of brokers?

[zikko]

Remember that sportsbooks can close an account for whatever reason they want - as long as your winning bets/balance is honored (absent extreme cases of fraud) then all is fair. It is the books that decide to unjustly confiscate winnings or look for any odd rule violation that players should avoid.

Sportsbooks can but Pinnacle can not. I remember their publicity: "we never close an account, we never limit players"... Liars !
In this story, Pinnacle will never give an explanation because they were just beaten by much stronger than them.
Pinnacle could admit that they need to eject the embarrassing gamblers, like all other sportsbooks. But they will never do that, because they do not want to sully their image. So their only solution is to shut up. They are just a little more crafty than the others. That's all.
The end of a myth? The myth has never existed, it was just an illusion.

[Optional]

Optional,

I am also interested in the opportunity to put through brokers. And your message is very disturbing. Explain that may mean, "they might think that the client is cheating on them?" After all, with this approach there can be no grounds for the confiscation of balance. There must be a legitimate reason for the seizure.
Maybe you have examples of such decisions in relation to clients of brokers?

What you, and most Western players, think of as "no grounds for confiscation" can differ from what they consider a legitimate reason. But I am only talking about a small handful of cases. Neither AC or PT have shown a regular pattern of trying to cheat players. They have just ruled more harshly than I think is fair on couple of occasions over the last 2 years.

Basically, don't mess with them at all. Don't try to find angles to make money through system flaws. Don't muck around with bonuses in any other way than just betting them. And if one of their books comes back and says you have done something wrong, don't expect ANY help from them to resolve it.

They offer a useful service but also carry higher risk than dealing direct with the book.

[Limited]

AC or PT or any other agent only open an account for you, they are paid based on volume you create with your bets. They never take actions against you. They dont care what you bet, how you bet ETC... If you play unfair you will get into troubles with the bookie only. Agents will not help you, they can't help you anyway. And BTW limits in PT or AC are same as in regular accounts, you also move the lines if you are using the agents. So line manipulating is possible but you are risking a confiscation.

[King23]

Sportsbooks can but Pinnacle can not. I remember their publicity: "we never close an account, we never limit players"... Liars !
In this story, Pinnacle will never give an explanation because they were just beaten by much stronger than them.
Pinnacle could admit that they need to eject the embarrassing gamblers, like all other sportsbooks. But they will never do that, because they do not want to sully their image. So their only solution is to shut up. They are just a little more crafty than the others. That's all.
The end of a myth? The myth has never existed, it was just an illusion.

HAREEBA defend Pinnacle from ZIKKO , earned your paycheck

[Hareeba!]

HAREEBA defend Pinnacle from ZIKKO , earned your paycheck

You are the forum's biggest fool.
If you were to do the slightest bit of research before posting ignorant trash you'd find that over the past 18 months or so I've posted many more criticisms of Pinnacle Sports than praises or defences of their actions.
So much so that I refuse to play there anymore!
Furthermore, in this thread I've questioned whether Pinnacle issued a warning to the OP before closing him down. I think they should have but the OP hasn't really answered that point.

[King23]

You are the forum's biggest fool.
If you were to do the slightest bit of research before posting ignorant trash you'd find that over the past 18 months or so I've posted many more criticisms of Pinnacle Sports than praises or defences of their actions.
So much so that I refuse to play there anymore!
Furthermore, in this thread I've questioned whether Pinnacle issued a warning to the OP before closing him down. I think they should have but the OP hasn't really answered that point.

So only worked with them for 18 months , did you got a raise recently

[Hareeba!]

So only worked with them for 18 months , did you got a raise recently

The more you post the bigger the fool you're proving yourself to be.

[King23]

The more you post the bigger the fool you're proving yourself to be.

Looks like your agitated sounds like you did not get any , Hopefully you get A Big Fat Christmas Bonus

[shaunovery]

Looks like pinny has no intention of letting uk players playing there

Time to look elsewhere

[Hareeba!]

Looks like pinny has no intention of letting uk players playing there

Time to look elsewhere

What has prompted that at this stage?
Last I heard from them only a few days ago was a very positive sounding message that they were looking forward to again serving UK players.

[Optional]

Looks like pinny has no intention of letting uk players playing there

Time to look elsewhere

What have you heard Shaun?

[King23]

What has prompted that at this stage?
Last I heard from them only a few days ago was a very positive sounding message that they were looking forward to again serving UK players.

What have you heard Shaun?

Hareeba hears everything about Pinnacle ,OFFCOURSE HE WORKS FOR THEM

[Optional]

Hareeba hears everything about Pinnacle ,OFFCOURSE HE WORKS FOR THEM

Hey King, can you please dial down the personal arguments in this sub forum? We try to keep this section a bit more professional if possible. ;-)

[shaunovery]

What has prompted that at this stage?
Last I heard from them only a few days ago was a very positive sounding message that they were looking forward to again serving UK players.

Where did u hear that ,

I email them every couple of weeks and just get the reply " no more news on that front"