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What to look for in books that disappear with our post-up money......
This isn't about the forums, we've beat that horse and all of them have been burned at one time or another. As players though what should we be aware of. Reviewing the list of books that have left in the middle of the night with post up monies since the year 2000 or so I notice a big part of them have these things in common:
1- Very small bankroll. Most of these guys look at your post-up money as their money when they get it. Probably the biggest reason they go down is bankroll too small when they started and/or overbooking. This creates all kinds of problems, like running off total squares that just got lucky. They'd have fed your business had you not sent them packing too early. Not a question of if these small books will go down, just a question of when.
2 - Located in Costa Rica. None of these are 100%, nor is this one, but it's amazing the percentage we have with books in this area as opposed to the rest of the world.
3- Heavy presence in the forums. Time after time the guys who are here to answer every question, respond to every thread and so on are books that cease to exist. Do you see the top dog at Pinnacle here? Or Bookmaker? More of this in #4 as they are linked in my mind.
4 - Lot of posters singing their praise. Now this might seem strange but let me explain myself. The #1 thing I hear is George/Jose/Mike/Bruno/XXXX have paid me every time and it's fast! Well yeah, of course, they always pay until they make a run for it. Every stiff book the industry has ever had paid until they quit paying. They need to earn your trust. And by paying each time and paying fast it builds relationships with posters/players, something that is critical for these con men to continue to play this game. Not as easy for some of these bigger books to pay you as some small book with 12 active players, someone calls he hops on a donkey and sends you your money right away.
5 - Bad bookie skills. They aren't really bookies, they don't know any better. Like the comment in #1 where they cut squares off too early, they don't have the smarts for this industry. They not only make bad decisions for their business they usually run it poorly as well. Argue with customers, show their ass on the forums and so on.
6 - Bonuses. This is somewhat related to #1 and #5. They don't understand how expensive bonuses can be for a new business, and/or they desperately need post-up money. When it's a rush, to get this bonus we must have it in 24 hours the guy is about to get evicted. Seriously, from the start to now books that go under are always active in this area.
7 - Continual contests. Not a good sign, the book is desperately trying to find new blood as he gives even more of his roll away. Here or there, okay. Constant contest offerings is always a bad sign.
These are some of the things I've noticed. From what it looks like it's mostly a couple crews that use a new front man on every gig they do. We just had a book tell us he would NEVER help players find out who these scammers are. He prefers to see players lose 30k, 40k, 50k and up as these scammers keep doing the same thing over and over. That's the worst part, they know long before you do that your money is gone.
And one more thing, they are very engaging. It's a combination of things, players call and since the book has so few customers he talks to the owner. After talking to the owner a few times suddenly the player is convinced XXX is a great guy and would never stiff anyone. This personal contact with players as mentioned in #3 and #4 is very important, they really need respected posters to be telling everyone they pay and they pay fast. Again, they all pay until they don't. And if you need your money in 12 hours you probably shouldn't be gambling.
Anyone else that's been around a while noticed other things these stiff books have in common? The trick is be aware of them before they have problems. Once you read about it in the forums it's too late. And while I think there are crews that have done it repeatedly, in some cases I'm sure it was just incompetence. Not that it makes a big theft of our money any less easier to absorb. I just don't think every closure was intended from jump street, but using some of the things we keep seeing repeat maybe we will learn our lesson.
kaliboyz gave Patrick McIrish 1 SBR Point(s) for this post.
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Originally Posted by Buffalo Nickle
