[Hareeba!]

At least two of these have mysteriously disappeared today.

Freedom of speech non existent on this site?

Sponsor cash too valuable?

[shari91]

Those weren't "security warning" threads. They were asking how to bypass security measures.

If people want to discuss how to defraud a sportsbook they'll need to go somewhere else.

[jjgold]

SBR does not like frauds

There's many scammers that come to this specific forum and try to get over on the books and SBR catches them all

[superhans]

Its spyware. If any other industry did this, there would be outrage. As its gambling its just accepted

You can block it pretty easy by changing a couple of config files on your computer. Useful if you value your privacy

[Optional]

Don't act like you are helping people with their privacy Superhans.

He basically said "I have just opened an account from a new IP and got caught straight away. How can i get around this?".

And you gave him an answer. Were you helping with privacy or fraud there??

[superhans]

'Fraud' then. Although fraud is a strong word, more a breach of terms and conditions

Then I learnt the error of my ways, and went down the privacy route

[Pete0]

SBR does not like frauds

There's many scammers that come to this specific forum and try to get over on the books and SBR catches them all

Like betislands C rating ?

[Hareeba!]

Those weren't "security warning" threads. They were asking how to bypass security measures.

If people want to discuss how to defraud a sportsbook they'll need to go somewhere else.

Call it what you want.
I'm certainly not arguing that you should aid scammers. They are largely to blame for the limitations on many of us and are to be detested.
But there was some extremely interesting information as to how B365 at least is using high tech security measures and there seems to be some genuine concerns about the information they are able to gather.
Deleting threads because they contain such information is tantamount to censorship.

[Optional]

Call it what you want.
I'm certainly not arguing that you should aid scammers. They are largely to blame for the limitations on many of us and are to be detested.
But there was some extremely interesting information as to how B365 at least is using high tech security measures and there seems to be some genuine concerns about the information they are able to gather.
Deleting threads because they contain such information is tantamount to censorship.

I'm surprised that you are surprised to find out books employ electronic fingerprinting to identify players.

It has been well known for years.

As someone mentioned in that thread iesnare is one of the best known solutions. Easy to go find out about it if you like. It's not a privacy issue at all. You may not like the tactics the company uses to get the information from you, but you agree to them when you sign up and as far as I am aware there has never been any allegation that the service has ever been used for anything apart from the bookmaker's security.

It's old now anyway and professional gnomers all know how to get around it.

Newer, better and less known options are out there.

If you want your bookmakers to remain profitable and not have to make you jump through hoops for indentity info all the time, then you should be happy to know they have high tech security.


EDIT: Actually thinking about it, I am not surprised you are surprised Hareeba. Why would you have ever needed to care or find out as an honest player.

[Hareeba!]

I'm surprised that you are surprised to find out books employ electronic fingerprinting to identify players.

It has been well known for years.

As someone mentioned in that thread iesnare is one of the best known solutions. Easy to go find out about it if you like. It's not a privacy issue at all. You may not like the tactics the company uses to get the information from you, but you agree to them when you sign up and as far as I am aware there has never been any allegation that the service has ever been used for anything apart from the bookmaker's security.

It's old now anyway and professional gnomers all know how to get around it.

Newer, better and less known options are out there.

If you want your bookmakers to remain profitable and not have to make you jump through hoops for indentity info all the time, then you should be happy to know they have high tech security.


EDIT: Actually thinking about it, I am not surprised you are surprised Hareeba. Why would you have ever needed to care or find out as an honest player.

No, I'm not surprised that they employ sophisticated measures. But I'm no geek. In fact if there's such a thing as the complete opposite of geek, I'm it. But I am interested in how advanced these measures are and what they are capable of. What little I recall from the earlier posts was somewhat alarming.

And you're right I don't spend my time looking at ways of beating bookies' security. And frankly I wish they'd spend their resources more productively, like employing genuine bookmakers rather than accountants so that we could all get our bets on for decent stakes at fair odds.

[Optional]

No, I'm not surprised that they employ sophisticated measures. But I'm no geek. In fact if there's such a thing as the complete opposite of geek, I'm it. But I am interested in how advanced these measures are and what they are capable of. What little I recall from the earlier posts was somewhat alarming.

And you're right I don't spend my time looking at ways of beating bookies' security. And frankly I wish they'd spend their resources more productively, like employing genuine bookmakers rather than accountants so that we could all get our bets on for decent stakes at fair odds.

In really basic terms, they read information about your computer like serial numbers of components like video cards and disk controllers etc.

The objection people have is how iesnare does this. A software program needs permission to do those things and iesnare uses a system that works like a trojan would to achieve this, without the user being explicitly aware. But they get away with it as you give the permission when signing up to the book wanting to use the service.

That is far from the only way to "electronic fingerprint" your devices btw.

[MoMoneyMoVaughn]

B365 is good people. Scamming them shouldn't be encouraged. Sponsor or not.

[Hareeba!]

B365 is good people. Scamming them shouldn't be encouraged. Sponsor or not.

They are far from being "good people" in my experience.
I have to tolerate their horrific advertisements on tv and at the MCG but they won't let me place a sports bet and have closed my accounts.

[lecubs28]

B365 is good people.

it doesn't justify scamming them, but bet365 are far from good people. they are predatory, only accepting bets from the most clueless idiotic gamblers. if a customer has a chance of winning, bet365 cut them off immediately.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

"if you use the same machine to sign up to two or more different sites that use the iesnare system, each site will know that you’ve recently signed up somewhere else and potentially earmark you as a criminal or abuser"

What else does this iesnare do?

[Optional]

"if you use the same machine to sign up to two or more different sites that use the iesnare system, each site will know that you’ve recently signed up somewhere else and potentially earmark you as a criminal or abuser"

What else does this iesnare do?

Helps them stop people doing what the person who started the deleted thread wanted to do. Open multiple accounts.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

but does it also increase the speed of someone who is not cheating to be limited? If you are profitable at bet365 and they see you have accounts at 8 others books because of iesnare will the limit you faster?


and what other information does iesnare provide these sportsbooks?, do they know how much you have won or lost at each sportsbook?

[Optional]

but does it also increase the speed of someone who is not cheating to be limited? If you are profitable at bet365 and they see you have accounts at 8 others books because of iesnare will the limit you faster?


and what other information does iesnare provide these sportsbooks?, do they know how much you have won or lost at each sportsbook?

I believe it only involves trying to identify the computer hardware.

It is not capable of reading your balance or activity. And I doubt books would want that info known to anyone else.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

"What is iesnare?
Iesnare is a ‘reputation management’ system by a company called Iovation that stores a digital fingerprint of your current system in a database on their website. That fingerprint can then be accessed by all of their customers - ie online gaming websites - to track your online activity."


So they can track online activity???? meaning all sites you visit?

[dirtdog52658]

There are a few of these programs out there. Some keep a complete track of your online history, some are solely in place for identifying scammers. I do not believe any of them will display actual win loss statements but they will have notes shared between books if say you C.h.arge.back or reasons why they closed your account.

[Optional]

"What is iesnare?
Iesnare is a ‘reputation management’ system by a company called Iovation that stores a digital fingerprint of your current system in a database on their website. That fingerprint can then be accessed by all of their customers - ie online gaming websites - to track your online activity."


So they can track online activity???? meaning all sites you visit?

The tracking can only encapsulate sites with the iesnare software included on it. Not any site you visit.

I do not know if the book also receives info on the other sites you have used, Ivovation could report that if they chose to, but common sense tells me a book like Bet365 would not want their major competitors being able to easily identify their active customers and therefore be able to target market them using B365 weak angles.

I think it's application for player betting risk management would be limited really. But that is just my opinion. I don't know for certain.

I think it is genuinely primarily used to identify multiple accounts.

[dirtdog52658]

This one Isnare operates on a gambling level only. They will not keep data on other sites that you visit. And as Optional said this programs primary use is to detect multiple accounts in house. Books actually can't see if you have accounts at other books until there is a problem with you. like i said earlier, reverse a charge or if your account is closed, when one of these happens a note is tagged to your device or IP and the notes are available to the other books to judge if they want to take you on or not.

[lecubs28]

i think there is something more to this. i don't understand all the ins and outs of the software but i do know this:

i never requested a chrgback, never did anything remotely wrong at all. just deposited, bet on sports, withdrew funds. some sportsbooks have limited my wagering abilities for having a clue what i'm doing.

a large costa rican sportsbook would not let me deposit with certain methods because they said i was on iovation's list of high risk customers. there is no reason i should have been on that list, and yet they insisted that there i was. my suspicion is that some idiot at one of the places that limited my wagers accidentally put me on the iovation scammer list incorrectly.

[jjgold]

There are so many scammers out there now And players use very sophisticated equipment to do damage that sports books have to use this and I supported fully

[superhans]

Apologies Mods and esteemed posters. I did not realise multi accounting was so frowned upon. I'll not mention it again.

I have no issue with fraud prevention, I Just dont think iesnare is in the interest of the general community. If bookies were that against fraud and money washing they would check this before you're even allowed to bet. They dont. Out of the 100's of bookies i've signed up to, only b365 have asked for a pvc. I didnt get round to sending it back and have had £1000's withdrawn with no issue.

If they wanted to prevent fraud, or laundering they would do it at the point of registration.

I've beem banned from a few unrelated euro bookies, which are unrelated, and single accounts. This information is being shared in breach of the data protection act. We know about ienare, but what else are they installing on our pcs without our knowledge? I've not looked at the T&Cs for a while, but pretty sure there is no mention of this

[LEOLEO]

Call it what you want.
I'm certainly not arguing that you should aid scammers. They are largely to blame for the limitations on many of us and are to be detested.
But there was some extremely interesting information as to how B365 at least is using high tech security measures and there seems to be some genuine concerns about the information they are able to gather.
Deleting threads because they contain such information is tantamount to censorship.

365 SUBSCRIBES TO IOVATION
formally knows as iesnare
>>https://www.iovation.com/industries/online-gambling


they 'finger print' your cpu harddrive,
that should NOT be banned by Sbr, that is freedom of information...

will hill is also on the network,

[LEOLEO]

At least two of these have mysteriously disappeared today.

Freedom of speech non existent on this site?

Sponsor cash too valuable?

AGREED,Hareeba
\SBR shouldnt be pullin the wool on these topics,
were just exchanging public knowledge

[Optional]

AGREED,Hareeba
\SBR shouldnt be pullin the wool on these topics,
were just exchanging public knowledge

If you choose to post information designed to assist people committing fraud it will be deleted every time.

And what are you bullshitting on about anyway. There is actually correct information about iesnare in this very thread, as opposed to the ignorant misinformation I see other mods have been deleting from you today.

[superhans]

I like how they track your ip address (not got a problem with it)

But then the adverts for the bookies usually show 10/15 people in a pub, on their phones/tablets.... you know, sharing the same IP address, and betting the same events. Do that in real life and you'll be booted

[Optional]

I like how they track your ip address (not got a problem with it)

But then the adverts for the bookies usually show 10/15 people in a pub, on their phones/tablets.... you know, sharing the same IP address, and betting the same events. Do that in real life and you'll be booted

You're right that doing exactly that has been used as an excuse to close accounts before.

I have had a lesser known book involved in a complaint case tell me, with a straight face, that they wanted to close several players accounts because they logged in from too many different IP addresses. All people on the O2 network in UK, which apparently drops and re-issues IPs to phone devices constantly.


I forsee an identity service like this that we use voluntarily one day, to give us as players piece of mind we can be fully identified.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

I like how they track your ip address (not got a problem with it)

But then the adverts for the bookies usually show 10/15 people in a pub, on their phones/tablets.... you know, sharing the same IP address, and betting the same events. Do that in real life and you'll be booted

Exactly, or people at your home watching a ufc pay per view betting on their phones with mobile apps all off your IP

[LEOLEO]

If you choose to post information designed to assist people committing fraud it will be deleted every time.

And what are you bullshitting on about anyway. There is actually correct information about iesnare in this very thread, as opposed to the ignorant misinformation I see other mods have been deleting from you today.

im not interested in committing fraud, or assisting others, im interesting in placing a Bet LIKE OTHERS WHOS RIGHTS HAVE BEEN INFRINGED UPON
UK online gambling operator Bet365 earned profits of £148m in its fiscal year ending March 31, 2013, a 35% improvement over the previous year’s total. The privately-held Stoke-based company’s operating profits actually rose 54% to £179m (290MILLION US)
where owner denise coates took a 40 MILLION USD PAYOUT
her father brother peter combined another 40 Million in a single YEAR !!!
because they are greedbox's who sniff a semblence of a person who is diligent and BANN THEM, and prey oN the degenerates for INFINITE



Bet365 founder pays herself £20m dividend>>>http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/d...s-20m-dividend


SHE IS AT 1.6 BILLION DOLLARS now 15 years later
$1.6 billion thats 1600 MILLION
she really needs ALL THAT MONEY, and ban others who turn a small salary a year bettin on sports
unlike pinnacle, bookmaker do, who have a sense of morality
KEEP DEFENDING THIS
TYPHOON OF GREED


The chief executive of betting giant Bet 365 and daughter of Stoke City chairman Peter Coates is one of a record number of female dollar billionaires, with a personal fortune estimated at $1.6 billion (roughly £960 million) on Forbes magazine's 28th annual rich list

[LEOLEO]

Freedom of speech non existent on this site?

Sponsor cash too valuable?[/QUOTE]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY

[sports_quant99]

"if you use the same machine to sign up to two or more different sites that use the iesnare system, each site will know that you’ve recently signed up somewhere else and potentially earmark you as a criminal or abuser"
What else does this iesnare do?

What am i missing here? Why is it bad to sign up at 2 different sites?