[bubba]

im soooo depressed. i need my betislands money. im the saddest, i dont know what to do. thanks john. thanks sbr

[hallandale]

Anything new with that situation it's a dame shame ????

[djefferis]

Its gone..you knew the risk Iif offshore, played and lost - move on.

Whole new season coming up and all new books offering huge bonuses and the promise of easy money.

No recovery will ever be made of lost funds.

[harvesters]

This is exactly why one of the other books should have picked up the balances. The long term damage to the industry as a whole far outweighs the 1.5 mil other books should have absorbed.h

[teaz2win]

This is exactly why one of the other books should have picked up the balances. The long term damage to the industry as a whole far outweighs the 1.5 mil other books should have absorbed.h

Why would anyone do that... so the book can get blasted and torn apart for holding peoples money hostage, and only getting negative press? Sure its our money but no book would be able to accommodate another books cash balances and payout immediately like everyone wants. It would have been nice to be able to have been paid the legends balances immediately but thats not reality.

[James D]

This is exactly why one of the other books should have picked up the balances. The long term damage to the industry as a whole far outweighs the 1.5 mil other books should have absorbed.h

I would argue 100% the exact opposite.

There are a few companies people consider rock solid in the business and a hundred that people think are shady or already folded. Situations like BetIslands actually HELP places like 5 dimes and pinnacle because its a warning to the bonus chasers and the soft line sharps that you may win the bets but you may get stiffed. If 5dimes and the other strong shops bail out the fly by night offshores that go bust it encourages the bettors to continue depositing at these shady sites to get the bonuses and soft lines. The bettors can rationalize "if this half a** joint goes down a bailout will come anyway from the big boys".

The truth is a situation like BI gets the big shops an increase of clientele not a decrease. Because many people realize the risk of chasing weak lines and 110% bonuses and they say screw that I just want my money safe. Then they call Bookmaker 5dimes etc etc and deposit there.


That being said I feel really bad for you Bubba this is a devastating situation. You clearly didnt deserve to lose life changing money.

[the_orangekat]

Bad beat but as an other poster said, it's done and time to move on. I've been burned, between books and locals, for over $10,000 in my 22+ years of gambling. Sucks, nature of the beast.

[Mikail]

What I find intriguing is how Sbr is being let of the hook regarding their involvement.

[James D]

Bad beat but as an other poster said, it's done and time to move on. I've been burned, between books and locals, for over $10,000 in my 22+ years of gambling. Sucks, nature of the beast.

I agree on some level you have to move on, but that does not mean posting a reminder once in a while is out of line. If also doesnt mean trying to locate Jon at his new shop and trying to harm them financially by spreading the word is wrong either. We are talking 50k here, thats real money not chump change.

I hope Bubba has moved forward and is doing what he has to do to rebuild. But there is nothing wrong with posting a reminder here and there.

[Mikail]

What I find intriguing is how Sbr is being let of the hook regarding their involvement.

Also I find it intriguing how sbr has gone out of the way to protect this "Jon" guy. Just my 2 cents.

[InsiderHer]

Also I find it intriguing how sbr has gone out of the way to protect this "Jon" guy. Just my 2 cents.

SBR John and the whole SBR team was in love with the "Jon" guy. Not ironic how things unfolded, actually predictable.

[harvesters]

I would argue 100% the exact opposite.

There are a few companies people consider rock solid in the business and a hundred that people think are shady or already folded. Situations like BetIslands actually HELP places like 5 dimes and pinnacle because its a warning to the bonus chasers and the soft line sharps that you may win the bets but you may get stiffed. If 5dimes and the other strong shops bail out the fly by night offshores that go bust it encourages the bettors to continue depositing at these shady sites to get the bonuses and soft lines. The bettors can rationalize "if this half a** joint goes down a bailout will come anyway from the big boys".

The truth is a situation like BI gets the big shops an increase of clientele not a decrease. Because many people realize the risk of chasing weak lines and 110% bonuses and they say screw that I just want my money safe. Then they call Bookmaker 5dimes etc etc and deposit there.


That being said I feel really bad for you Bubba this is a devastating situation. You clearly didnt deserve to lose life changing money.

I understand your point but would argue that it doesn't chase players to other offshore books but back to locals, Vegas and British books. I think my belief is largely supported by the decrease in posts on sbr where posters are heavily into playing at offshore books. Time will tell.

[EMP19E]

We all know the risks involved in off-shore books........That being said i feel for people who had large sums of money in one book but you only have yourself to blame i mean why would you keep any amount of money that could be enough to break you in one account??

Just keep what you need and take the rest spread it out across a couple books something i mean that makes sense right?

[harvesters]

Why would anyone do that... so the book can get blasted and torn apart for holding peoples money hostage, and only getting negative press? Sure its our money but no book would be able to accommodate another books cash balances and payout immediately like everyone wants. It would have been nice to be able to have been paid the legends balances immediately but thats not reality.

I'm not aware that wAgerweb had been getting blasted. I actually thought the opposite was true.

[benandjerry]

I agree on some level you have to move on, but that does not mean posting a reminder once in a while is out of line. If also doesnt mean trying to locate Jon at his new shop and trying to harm them financially by spreading the word is wrong either. We are talking 50k here, thats real money not chump change.

I hope Bubba has moved forward and is doing what he has to do to rebuild. But there is nothing wrong with posting a reminder here and there.

Completely agree, things like this should not be forgotten.

Also I find it intriguing how sbr has gone out of the way to protect this "Jon" guy. Just my 2 cents.

SBR is an affiliate disguised as a watchdog site. Dont get me wrong, they'll put in effort into helping people out, but only so long as it doesnt hurt their sponsors or stream of revenue to any larger extent. They have their priorities just as the rest of us.

[MBENZ]

What I find intriguing is how Sbr is being let of the hook regarding their involvement.

I don't think they got let off the hook at all.Look at this place and the posters now.Most of the ones that kept a steady flow going to new and old SBR books don't even post here anymore much less send anything that might even be an SBR aff.deal.They're paying dearly but just not making it public knowledge.

[teaz2win]

I'm not aware that wAgerweb had been getting blasted. I actually thought the opposite was true.

Do a search it has quieted down but at the beginning its was pretty bad.

[harvesters]

Do a search it has quieted down but at the beginning its was pretty bad.

It was pretty bad in that guys who received an absolute gift were complaining about the rollover and line variety. No one complained that there balance did not get moved over or that wagerweb weren't following through. In the end, it should be fine and guys ought to look back at with faith in offshore restored. How should betislands victims look at offshore? Do you think Bubba or anyone Bubba knows will ever play offshore again?

[djefferis]

Should we forget this...no, but clearly some did as this isnt a new phenom...LazerWager, ParlayMakers/*******,Wsex all have failed in last 3 or 4 years...cascade right before that....ALL were promoted big by a forum/watchdog immediately before falling.

As to SBR protecting Jon..they are censoring out the last name. Blaming Jon is a bit off..he was a salesman. A very good one at that..did he have a role in starting up the brand, I have no doubt..there was more to it than him..but as the public face, he takes the fall. There were other backers here..and I doubt they will ever be named. Too slick for that and left Jon to clean up a mess they created together with poor management and big risk taking hoping square play in NFL would return to its normal profitability last season..it didnt and they failed because of it.

[bubba]

Should we forget this...no, but clearly some did as this isnt a new phenom...LazerWager, ParlayMakers/*******,Wsex all have failed in last 3 or 4 years...cascade right before that....ALL were promoted big by a forum/watchdog immediately before falling.

As to SBR protecting Jon..they are censoring out the last name. Blaming Jon is a bit off..he was a salesman. A very good one at that..did he have a role in starting up the brand, I have no doubt..there was more to it than him..but as the public face, he takes the fall. There were other backers here..and I doubt they will ever be named. Too slick for that and left Jon to clean up a mess they created together with poor management and big risk taking hoping square play in NFL would return to its normal profitability last season..it didnt and they failed because of it.

jon was more than a salesman. Anytime you wanted anything done, Jon had to approve at that place. They had very few people working there and he was no doubt in charge of day to day operations. If there was other backers, i cannot say. Sbr says yes, but SBR also strongly hinted that my funds were safe there so I dont know what to believe from them.

[djefferis]

SBR said Cascade A-
SBR said WSEX A
SBR said Parlaymakers C
SBR said Lazerwager D+

1-4 on recommendations...would you follow a tout offering free picks with a documented 1 of 4 record....if so, lmk - got some MLB picks to offer.

I'll give you the first 2 were at one time solid - however long before SBR dropped their rating, they had signs of problems. the 3rd on this list smelled of a ponzi scheme from day 1 - #4 actually paid me over $5k in FREE contest winnings from that kill carlos contest before shutting the doors. It just shows you never know - does SBR do a decent job, yes - would I follow their rankings blindly..NO.

As far as Jon running day to day operations, I'd say thats a fair assessment for the most part. As far as Jon being the main guy - possible, but I think others played a hand in this. Jon has been in the industry for a while and navigated storms before. Sure, they may have "said" it required Jon's ok - so what. I bought a car yesterday and the salesperson kept having to talk to his "sales manager" - just the name of the person they create to make it seem like they are on your side, but the mysterious boss wont allow the deal to happen. Common in this business..your account manager tells you he's pulling to get your payout approved, but the mysterious boss "Jon" hasnt ok'd it yet.

I talked to Jon many times over the years, before BI and during his stay there - I have no doubt he knew the industry well enough and also dont think he would have taken off with 500k, knowing he would be leaving much more on the table.

[pjesnik24]

SBR said Cascade A-
SBR said WSEX A
SBR said Parlaymakers C
SBR said Lazerwager D+

1-4 on recommendations...would you follow a tout offering free picks with a documented 1 of 4 record....if so, lmk - got some MLB picks to offer.

I'll give you the first 2 were at one time solid - however long before SBR dropped their rating, they had signs of problems. the 3rd on this list smelled of a ponzi scheme from day 1 - #4 actually paid me over $5k in FREE contest winnings from that kill carlos contest before shutting the doors. It just shows you never know - does SBR do a decent job, yes - would I follow their rankings blindly..NO.

As far as Jon running day to day operations, I'd say thats a fair assessment for the most part. As far as Jon being the main guy - possible, but I think others played a hand in this. Jon has been in the industry for a while and navigated storms before. Sure, they may have "said" it required Jon's ok - so what. I bought a car yesterday and the salesperson kept having to talk to his "sales manager" - just the name of the person they create to make it seem like they are on your side, but the mysterious boss wont allow the deal to happen. Common in this business..your account manager tells you he's pulling to get your payout approved, but the mysterious boss "Jon" hasnt ok'd it yet.

I talked to Jon many times over the years, before BI and during his stay there - I have no doubt he knew the industry well enough and also dont think he would have taken off with 500k, knowing he would be leaving much more on the table.

I like it how you randomly picked the size and the sportsbooks in your sample

[djefferis]

Just making a point....every Forum/Ratings watchdog out there has a bottom line to watch out for. These are books ranked C or better in the past 4 years. Feel free to name me a book that was seriously touted as safe by another major forum/watchdog that SBR called a scam.

Forgot about Legends - another A+ book - right up until they closed the doors, at least bettors there got bailed out. Do I fault SBR on that one - yes and no. Yes, as a watchdog they should have saw it coming - No, because virtually everyone else in this industry missed it too...at least until Spiros was taken down.

Off the top of my head - BetEd was touted elsewhere, SBR hated them rightfully. The shop touted by Rx as being great, despite having obvious issues and funds being sent to Eastern Europe (sorry, forgot the name) was also one SBR got right...still not connecting at a 50% clip - 3 right and 4 wrong. Anyone can set here and say Heritage/Bookmaker/5D are safe...there is no argument in the general consensus. Its getting the small ones right and wrong that does the greatest service/dis-service to bettors. SBR is no better or worse than any forum at this.

Other notable names both loved/hated by SBR have at least remained semi solvent - SBR loved BetOnline, they've paid - but alot of haters out there...SBR hated Phoenix group - yet they remain a solid out. SBR hates EZStreet and BetRev - again, they've paid - at least those they feel are not shot takers (by determination of their management). As I said - dont blindly follow and you likely wont wind up being slaughtered like sheep - but if you take SBR (or ANY major forums ratings) as gospel truth - your bound to get burned, espc in the industry these days.

[goombah]

I hate how it is hard enough to break even trying to pick games that you have to gamble with the shops you deal with.

[bubba]

Just making a point....every Forum/Ratings watchdog out there has a bottom line to watch out for. These are books ranked C or better in the past 4 years. Feel free to name me a book that was seriously touted as safe by another major forum/watchdog that SBR called a scam.

Forgot about Legends - another A+ book - right up until they closed the doors, at least bettors there got bailed out. Do I fault SBR on that one - yes and no. Yes, as a watchdog they should have saw it coming - No, because virtually everyone else in this industry missed it too...at least until Spiros was taken down.

Off the top of my head - BetEd was touted elsewhere, SBR hated them rightfully. The shop touted by Rx as being great, despite having obvious issues and funds being sent to Eastern Europe (sorry, forgot the name) was also one SBR got right...still not connecting at a 50% clip - 3 right and 4 wrong. Anyone can set here and say Heritage/Bookmaker/5D are safe...there is no argument in the general consensus. Its getting the small ones right and wrong that does the greatest service/dis-service to bettors. SBR is no better or worse than any forum at this.

Other notable names both loved/hated by SBR have at least remained semi solvent - SBR loved BetOnline, they've paid - but alot of haters out there...SBR hated Phoenix group - yet they remain a solid out. SBR hates EZStreet and BetRev - again, they've paid - at least those they feel are not shot takers (by determination of their management). As I said - dont blindly follow and you likely wont wind up being slaughtered like sheep - but if you take SBR (or ANY major forums ratings) as gospel truth - your bound to get burned, espc in the industry these days.

i sadi this moths ago but ill repeat it. This wasnt SBR reporting on a book they thought was good and they went bad. That can happen to SBR even if they did the best they could. This book was nothing without SBR. Thats the difference. 75-90%+ of their business came through sbr. More than just a book with a banner here. SBR practically created this book and certainly is what gave them there credibility in many posters eyes.

And frankly, the "reporting" by sbr on what happened here was an absolute joke and makes sbr look guilty. Not saying they are but its pretty dam fishy.

[Mikail]

I don't think they got let off the hook at all.Look at this place and the posters now.Most of the ones that kept a steady flow going to new and old SBR books don't even post here anymore much less send anything that might even be an SBR aff.deal.They're paying dearly but just not making it public knowledge.

You are correct. They was/are complicit and involved more or less in the whole Betislands theft and unfortunately nothing could/was done about it. Players did the only thing they could to protest sbr by leaving the site and it shows. This forum is a "ghost town" compared to what it once was.

[touchback]

I would argue 100% the exact opposite.

There are a few companies people consider rock solid in the business and a hundred that people think are shady or already folded. Situations like BetIslands actually HELP places like 5 dimes and pinnacle because its a warning to the bonus chasers and the soft line sharps that you may win the bets but you may get stiffed. If 5dimes and the other strong shops bail out the fly by night offshores that go bust it encourages the bettors to continue depositing at these shady sites to get the bonuses and soft lines. The bettors can rationalize "if this half a** joint goes down a bailout will come anyway from the big boys".

The truth is a situation like BI gets the big shops an increase of clientele not a decrease. Because many people realize the risk of chasing weak lines and 110% bonuses and they say screw that I just want my money safe. Then they call Bookmaker 5dimes etc etc and deposit there.


That being said I feel really bad for you Bubba this is a devastating situation. You clearly didnt deserve to lose life changing money.

James... nice post. I might point out that all the big shops and even the what we call medium shops already had almost all if not all of the BetIslands customers already on their sheets. This just makes them (the customers/players) more likely to deposit with the bigger safer boys instead of looking for those big bonuses and soft lines. This was a major factor in no bailout, they (the big shops) already had the customers on their sheets, it was also in November with heavy red and the PR was so bad it was not worth the risk with any reputable service. Bubba, hang in there... this too will pass. Will just take a little longer for you considering the size of the hit. Again, sorry for what happened too you and all the rest except the wise guys. They knew the deal and should of been out front warning everyone, at least all the recreational players months before the end... they knew or could read the writing on the wall.

[InsiderHer]

I disagree with James D, when BOS went under the post up industry lost 25% of its business. Adding all the contractions, processing issues and scams it continues to decline today. The BI fiasco was less about recreational players and more to do with the association of a so called "watch dog" site. Bodog (Bovada) is a shell of its former self as are many of the so called "larger to medium" shops. WSEX which helped kick start the entire game is dead. Scams like Apex, BetIslands, Oddsmaker, LazerWager, GoldCoast, BetCascade, BetPanam, and Bet911 have not helped the industry. Sorry Bubba.

[combination lock]

I disagree with James D, when BOS went under the post up industry lost 25% of its business. Adding all the contractions, processing issues and scams it continues to decline today. The BI fiasco was less about recreational players and more to do with the association of a so called "watch dog" site. Bodog (Bovada) is a shell of its former self as are many of the so called "larger to medium" shops. WSEX which helped kick start the entire game is dead. Scams like Apex, BetIslands, Oddsmaker, LazerWager, GoldCoast, BetCascade, BetPanam, and Bet911 have not helped the industry. Sorry Bubba.

Totally agree. It really feels like when you send cash to juan guan ramirez you really are not going to ever see it again. It use to feel like you at least buying stock with it. I truly believe that feeling is turning a lot of guys/ potential players away for good

[James D]

I disagree with James D, when BOS went under the post up industry lost 25% of its business. Adding all the contractions, processing issues and scams it continues to decline today. The BI fiasco was less about recreational players and more to do with the association of a so called "watch dog" site. Bodog (Bovada) is a shell of its former self as are many of the so called "larger to medium" shops. WSEX which helped kick start the entire game is dead. Scams like Apex, BetIslands, Oddsmaker, LazerWager, GoldCoast, BetCascade, BetPanam, and Bet911 have not helped the industry. Sorry Bubba.

I understand that any sportsbook going under is a black eye to the industry and hurts overall betting volume on some level. However you are talking about assuming 1.5 million in debt which was largely owed to sharps that would just beat you for more in an industry you yourself describe as declining. Is saving Betilands worth 1.5 million to anyone in particular in the industry? Not even close, you yourself listed eight other books that went under and that didnt stop people from funding offshores. Would the actual industry as a whole benefited from a bailout? Yes some I guess. Would the book or books that actually did the bailout benefit? Nope no chance . They would assume a huge debt load and players would still bet where they got the best lines or best bonuses. They also would get a list of players they basically had already. Nothing at all they were acquiring was worth 1.5 million. SportsBooks are not AIG, Apple, or citibank. 1.5 million is serious serious money. Its a horrible situation for sure but BI made the problem big enough that they were bleeding too much to save

[InsiderHer]

I understand that any sportsbook going under is a black eye to the industry and hurts overall betting volume on some level. However you are talking about assuming 1.5 million in debt which was largely owed to sharps that would just beat you for more in an industry you yourself describe as declining. Is saving Betilands worth 1.5 million to anyone in particular in the industry? Not even close, you yourself listed eight other books that went under and that didnt stop people from funding offshores. Would the actual industry as a whole benefited from a bailout? Yes some I guess. Would the book or books that actually did the bailout benefit? Nope no chance . They would assume a huge debt load and players would still bet where they got the best lines or best bonuses. They also would get a list of players they basically had already. Nothing at all they were acquiring was worth 1.5 million. SportsBooks are not AIG, Apple, or citibank. 1.5 million is serious serious money. Its a horrible situation for sure but BI made the problem big enough that they were bleeding too much to save

What I am telling you James is the reality of the offshore sportsbook business today. The business is on a major decline and has for some time now. Those junk shops like BI push it further into the abyss. The action has moved back to the street like it or not. Those other books did in fact stop thousands of players from sending money and betting again. You're correct to assume no one wanted that individual running the shop nor his 1.5 million debt. He fleeced multiple shops what would be the point? What's done is done and people like Bubba won't get paid in part because SBR facilitated a lie.

[harvesters]

Having worked in the casino industry I know two things.

1. Shops should not be afraid to take on balances if they throw a good sized rollover on it. This smacks of many "they're just going to lose it and reload" schemes the gaming industry uses.

2. If 1.5 mil is a lot for an industry to absorb it ain't much of an industry. Adjust your offshore bankrolls accordingly. If offshore was still relevant, a group of books would pick it up for the industry goodwill.

[mighty maron]

Several months after the fact...

1. SBR will ride this out. Look at Russ Hamilton. He stole millions from Ultimate Bet Players. He plays poker in brick and mortar casinos in the USA. He is not pestered. Once this happened and no one did anything about it...its all fair game.
2. Any ROW bettors that played at BI should know better. Any site that services US bettors has so much more overhead in payment processing and potential losses from seizures that its not worth it. The bonuses, half points, and other promos should have been a sign. Hindsight Bias but ROW should avoid US sites.
3. Legends went poof...Waiting for the anticipated B+ bump for Wagerweb for football season.

[James D]

Having worked in the casino industry I know two things.

1. Shops should not be afraid to take on balances if they throw a good sized rollover on it. This smacks of many "they're just going to lose it and reload" schemes the gaming industry uses.

2. If 1.5 mil is a lot for an industry to absorb it ain't much of an industry. Adjust your offshore bankrolls accordingly. If offshore was still relevant, a group of books would pick it up for the industry goodwill.

1. Many of the players were sharp and some of the balances were really high. The they will lose it and reload mentality does not apply to many of those bettors. As far as the recreational bettors that would have gotten bailed out I agree many would have just reloaded but the truth is they would have reloaded where they got the best deal. Thats how they ended up at betislands in the first place. If they were not shopping for bonuses and perks they would have been at 5dimes DSI bookmaker etc etc .

2. 1.5 million might not be a huge number for an industry but for a single shop it certainly is a huge number. How would the industry collectively bail out a book? Who gets the client list? Who gets the squares? Do the big shops pay a higher percentage? Doesnt this just encourage people to bet as weaker books with big bonuses if there is a savior down the road if the book closes? Everyone is saying offshore for US is weaker then it ever was, dozens if not hundreds of books have folded before with no bailout, why should BI clients be saved? Goodwill is a very minor factor in the gambling world, on both sides of the ledger. It just is what it is. No one is going to turn down a bonus or a 1/2 point from a book they know is solid because they have loyalty to a book that has no bonuses or perks.

[bobbywaves]

No one complained that there balance did not get moved over or that wagerweb weren't following through.

Apparently you're talking about Legends balances, as there was no BI bailout. SBR has stayed quiet on BI & reported nothing on a bailout.