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[IMG]file:///C:%5CTmp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_imag e003.png[/IMG]BetRevolution Response to players fund confiscation.
We want to be completely transparent to the incident reported by SBR. We asked them to please release all the information provided so players can made up their opinion regarding our decision, but for some reason the request was not granted. We do not take this decision lightly so here it is the email exchange done with SBR:
Tuesday, March 26, 2013:
Hi Peter,Hope all is well.SBR has received two troubling claims from users. I’ve attached a summary below, but please let me know if there’s a better address to contact to discuss these.
Player #1Account: ***** ~$4,000
Issue: Player has been told BetRevolution has a new risk management team and that he’s been identified as being part of a syndicate. The player denies this, pointing out that he’s a small-time player and asks how BetRevolution is coming to such a conclusion. Player is being told his balance will not be paid.
Player #2Account: ****
Balance: $22,908Issue: Player also told BetRevolution has identified him as part of a syndicate. He claims he liked BetRevolution as sometimes they put opinionated numbers up, he does watch odds monitoring sites and likes to get the best # possible. A smart player who denies being connected with any other accounts. Player is being told his balance will not be paid.Thanks for your time in advance.Best regards,
Lou
We have a professional team behind our Wager and Risk Team, so they did a good job preparing a proper response to SBR statement:
Tuesday, March 26, 2013
Hello Lou,
Thank you very much for contacting us. Due to a high level of fraud and collusion attempts on our company we have implemented more vigorous verifications on every withdrawal request we are processing. It was during these tests that several accounts were flagged to undergo a series of low level checks.
Our software has identified at least 4 account as one of multiple, initially thought to be, unrelated accounts with irregular betting patterns that go against our policies.
These means that an elevated number of their betting selections did not match the average and median choices of our entire player community. These results comes after statistical algorithms are run against their betting history, we gathered as much information as we could to do our typical approach of countering and refute these results and we came to the following findings.
There are several accounts who not only duplicate the players exact betting choices way out of the median and average selection of our entire player community but also do it with a time difference that removes any kind of randomness or value oriented choice.
We do not take these kind of charges lightly and we have very complex systems and protocols in place to eliminate what other books do just because they wanted to, we make sure to notify the player at all times of the current status of the situation and frequently ask them questions to try to understand the reasons of these findings.
The information gathered so far is so overwhelming that we truly appreciate the involvement of a third party in order to provide a statement of our posture against these kind of actions. We always protect our member's personal information but we will assume SBR has now being granted permission to receive this information.
The accounts involved on these operation are:
**** - XXXX, Chicago, Illinois.
****- XXXXX, Appleton, Wisconsin.
****- XXXXXX, Seattle, Washington.
****- XXXXX, Glen Allen, Virginia.
Officially we have confirmed information of the relationship between the first three accounts, we are still on the phase of gathering data and interviewing the fourth account. It is our impression that ****was the Head of the group and ****and **** were runners or beards to his selections. **** seems to beard to **** but it is not confirmed as of now.
Let us know show you what lead us to these findings:
****:
This account has
41 wagers placed on the exact same lines as ****account on transactions placed
within 30 or less minutes of each other.
The median value for of selections equal to this players account for our entire player database within the same time range is 2, the average number of same line selections as this account within the same time range is 3.88. The total population of players who had at least one selection equal to **** were 171. This means that out of 171 accounts the average and median equal selections stayed between 2 and 3.88, while only one account reached 41 exact selections.
The difference on average and median reflects clearly the spike value that ****account activity produces on the average calculation, but still so much affected by so many accounts with minimum duplications that sits close to the median.
Even though the average and median values are already way off the reasonable margin of reason and the elapsed time of the transactions is small (30 min) we wanted to make sure we were not leaving anything to coincidence, so we reduce our search to wagers placed
within 15 or less minutes of each other.
Under this new parameter,
35 of his wagers were placed on the exact same line as ****account within 15 or less minutes of each other. This means that 85% of his selections from the original 41 wagers were placed on the exact same line as ***within 15 minutes of each other. Notice the median value to 2 be and the average value to be 3.42 under this new time frame. The total count of players under this filter is 113.
Further analysis revealed that if we ran the same statistics for wagers placed
within 5 minutes of each other,
28 of your wagers were placed on the exact same line as **** account, which give us a 63% of the wagers from the original 44 and a 80% of the wagers placed within 15 minutes of each other. The total count of players under this filter is 63.
Important to notice that the median value for this set is 2 and the average 3.5.
For the big picture,
87% of ALL the wagers of BEHNKE betting history are on the EXACTLY THE SAME LINE as ***
. A 60% similarity will raise flags in our systems, but 87% is defined internally as confirmed collusion.
****:
This account has 38 wagers placed on the exact same line as **** account, all transactions were placed within 30 or less minutes of each other. The median value for the same selections as *** of our entire player database within the same time range is 1, the average number of same line selections as *** on within the same time range is 3.82. The number of players who at least have one selection as *** are 107. Notice the average and media similar selections of 107 accounts compare to ***.
23 of these wagers were placed on the exact same line as ***account within 15 or less minutes of each other. This means that 60% of his selections from the original 38 wagers were placed on the exact same line as ****within 15 minutes of each other. Notice the median value to 1 be and the average value to be 3.33 under this new time frame. The total number of accounts under these filters is 70.
When running the same statistics for wagers placed within 5 minutes of each other, 16 of his wagers were placed on the exact same line as RUNNER2 account, which give us a 42% of the wagers from the original 38 and a 70% of the wagers placed within 15 minutes of each other. Important to notice that the median value for this set is 1 and the average 4.1.
For the big picture,
75% of ALL the wagers of **** betting history are on the EXACTLY THE SAME LINE as
****.
In conclusion, in both cases presented above, ***** account not only goes over the 80% margin of the median and average duplicate selections among accounts, but at least double the number of exact same line selections as the immediate player among all our players and all our bets since BetRevolution opened for business, all these while placing wagers within few minutes from each other. Notice also that runner ups to your account duplication were not the same on any of the cases.
We understand a certain level of duplication can happen due to line value, or handicapping, but we could not
find a reason for having multiple accounts login within minutes of each other to place the exact same betting selections so many times, where even second halves and point buying selections were duplicated. These last set of wagers made a very small sample of the bets placed, but served the purpose to remove any handicapping suggestions from the equation and also to show the synchronization and coordination of the accounts on placing the wagers. Important also to mention that most of the bets were not placed close to game time.
Although we know a high amount of those transactions were placed under "chase steam" conditions which is also deemed as illegal on our site, it is only a side factor to the obvious fact that there is a high level of organization behind this schema and a big effort to hide it. We
do not publish our lines on any line service so in order to have three accounts login at the same time and placing the same wagers within minutes of each other showing the statistical values above doesn't leave space to explanations to counter them.
But we still did, and the members via email let us know that they HAVE NO FAMILY MEMBERS, CO-WORKERS, FRIENDS or ANY other associate on the Revolution and that they ONLY follow from time to time a single handicapping, tip, free betting suggestion site in common located on this site
Although, the possibility of some same line selections exists if they are suggested by a tip betting site, the value of such assertion from a statistical point of view based on the amount of bets and time relation disappears. In any case, we also took the liberty to review the site and could not find anything that will justify the behaviour above.
Finally, we always use numbers to go beyond any reasonable doubt through our statistics to proof these cases, but on this occasion due to the severity of the issue we did some research and found that the three accounts
known each other even though they
DENIED such a fact to us.
Last month, during our investigation, we found also their relationship on xxxxx. We were aware that the moment we notified them with full detail of their actions they will start a process of removing all evidence of it which we did not feel to be necessary due to the overwhelming statistical data we have, but in any case we took the screenshots attached to this email prior to them starting to remove them on recent days. Until today, ** and *** relationship is still shown, probably because we have not notified them of the identity of the accounts involved.
Locations, IDs and picture are a match with current documentation on file. We also notified the members on different times and with different questions to see any effort of synchronization among them on answers and timings and as it can be seen on the responses, time of claims on SBR and disappearance of their data on XXXX, an effort is underway to hide evidence.
We take very serious these findings and we always go the extra mile to verify and prove beyond any reasonable doubt these results but there was no logical explanation we could come out or could be provided by their responses to our emails to what presents itself as a serious case of syndicate betting and professional gambling.
These goes explicitly against our terms, conditions and sportsbook rules as presented on:
Terms and conditions (
http://www.betrevolution.com/terms.aspx)
Section 3.1.2.
"You participate in the Games strictly in Your personal non-professional capacity for recreational and entertainment reasons only;"
Section 3.1.9.
"You shall not be involved in any fraudulent, collusive, fixing or other unlawful activity in relation to Your or third parties’ participation in any of the Games and shall not use any software-assisted methods, techniques (e.g. "chase steam", "steam plays", etc) or hardware devices for Your participation in any of the Games. BETREVOLUTION hereby reserves the right to invalidate or close Your Member Account or invalidate Your participation in a Game in the event of such behaviour;"
Sportbook Rules (
http://www.betrevolution.com/rules/sportsbook.aspx)
Item 13.
"Betting Syndicates and/or any organization of players with similar goals are against BetRevolution spirit of recreational and entertainment purposes. All accounts involved on this type of organizations will be cancelled and funds will be confiscated."
Item 14.
"BetRevolution does not accept bets when it is likely that customers act in agreement, or as a syndicate. Placing identical bets from more than one account and from the same IP address might be considered a syndicate even if the personal betting limits has not been reached. Syndicate betting is considered as fraud and may lead to reduction of betting limits, closing of account, confiscation of winnings and/or cancellation of all placed bets (even decided ones). Legal action may also be considered."
Item 19.
"If the wager(s) are deemed to have been placed by multiple players or syndicates in an attempt to circumvent the rules, limits, bonuses conditions, etc. If such wager(s) are taken in error they will be cancelled/revoked."
Bonus Conditions. (
http://www.betrevolution.com/promoti...motion-50.aspx)
"Bonuses are intended for recreational members only. Members with multiple accounts, professionals or players considered to be abusing the bonus system will have their account closed, bonus(es) revoked and not eligible for a withdrawal."
These members have already received $13,152USD in payments and potentially up to $31,000USD if leads on other accounts are completely and totally verified.
It is our intention to warn other books of the presence of this kind of people who lurk on smaller and honest books to try to take advantage and profit from them. Their acts could cause damage to their finances and as such weakening their chances to grow and provide a good service to their members. We want to send a strong message to these kind of organizations that they may try their luck with us but we are resolved to stop them.
After one day of deliberation, and we providing even more statistic we get this response.
Thursday, March 28th. 2013:
Thanks for the follow-up.These are buddies sharing picks, different people, different computers. We’ve seen it a hundred times. They could have just as easily went on a losing streak before being caught and their funds would still be at risk in that instance, so it is a freeroll to say on a win their action doesn’t count. Sharps and groups can lose too and the option taken here was to wait and find out.Our position is to kick the players out and pay them in full.
Best regards,
Lou
Our team clear up with management and send another response.
Tuesday, April 2nd, 2013:
Dear SBR,
Thank you for your response. Based on your analysis, your conclusion is that the members
do know each other and they indeed
"share" picks information. Which was indeed, soundly proved on the evidence shown.
We do wonder how SBR arrived to the conclusion of their actions to be only "buddies sharing picks", we say this because they
did not provide to us any reasonable explanation to what we assumed were basic questions to be answer and probably be included as part of the investigation done by SBR, specially being statistically proven facts of their actions on:
* Why ***"pick sharing" extends to at least 2 other accounts.
* Why both "pick sharing" accounts behnke with
87% of his entire betting history (66 out of 76) and brianrev
75% of his entire betting history (143 out of 191) have
identical line selections as Peeig. Was behnke simply copying peeige selections?
* Why
interstate "buddies" (Washington, Wisconsin and Illinois) sit down and communicate with each other to coordinate placing the exact same wagers 79 times within minutes of each other, and in total 219 times. Specially when statistics shown how randomness, good will or casual intention where not in effect here.
* Why will they login at the same time and place so many wagers including
half times and buying the exact same teaser point amounts on exactly the same lines within minutes of each other.
* How "buddies sharing picks" will show the number of duplicate selections we are seeing when compare to our
entire player database. Their duplication is
so extreme than when compared to the median and average selections of our player population they show a 2000% increase on their duplication compare to the rest.
* How can have
41 identical picks to peeig and placed them within 30 minutes of each other when other 170 members did the same only 2 times in median.
* How can have
38 identical picks to peeig and placed within 30 minutes of each other when other 107 members did the same only 1 time in median.
* How can have
28 identical picks to peeig and placed them within 5 minutes of each other when other 63 members did the same only 1 time in median.
* Why
they deny knowing each other and then hide their relationship when challenged and shown they do.
* How they realized the line changes and move
in group so quickly to place wagers. Keep in mind that we do not publish lines on any line service. They will require to have a lookup person on the site who will notify the others when an advantageous position was available in order for them to access the site on the same time frames.
* Based on the above, what is the intention to coordinate and synchronize access to our website to place the transactions within minutes of each other.
All those actions are definitely not in accordance to simple "buddies sharing picks", so we are puzzled about the information provided by the members that led you to that conclusion. We have members sharing picks and we don't go in their ways unless it is a extreme and planned situation like the one described (we have never done it until now).
We also took the liberty to review
previous cases on SBR regarding syndicate betting, following the suggestions made in order to prove this behavior. We took precautions to go in detail and with solid numbers over every account involved, not only demonstrating via their betting history how they were related but also via social media and also by removing the possibility of handicapping. All this while informing and confirming with the members in question at all times.
We were taken by surprise on the reference of duplicate IPs and addresses made on your response when it was widely discussed and commented by SBR that IPs and locations ARE NOT a solid and valid proof of non relationship due to current widely available technological solutions and configurations that makes them irrelevant as a way of proving duplicity by itself. It is always included on most terms, conditions and rules but we agree that technology has advanced and basing ourselves only on that to simply disqualify a member will be unfair. We did notice that this group accessed our site from at least
24 different IPs, and that proxies were used on multiple occasions, so IPs were never an issue, all the contrary, different cities, states, and countries appeared from them with ease on our IT panels.
On the other hand, the reference to "wait and find out" is really troubling to us. Providing statistical information requires a large sample of bets, showing a 20 bet duplication out of 29 will be flawed from a statistical point of view and will go against our principle to provide solid evidence on our position when a player is in question.
Also, it can be seen how we did not wait on paying over $4,000 USD and did not wait on paying over $8,000 USD until their actions were discovered. Our history of resolutions with SBR and lack of payment complaints on the last 4 years, which are not reflected on our current "grading" with SBR, shows how we
do not "wait and find out" for our members. We find such comment incomprehensible because of the effort we've done to provide a high quality service to our members.
We can't hide our disappointment with the extend, length and depth of the one day, two liner report of the investigation done by SBR, specially after the utmost efforts our Wagering and Risk team made to be transparent and to follow all proper guidelines. We are aware all the accounts mentioned came from SBR and your forum is a player oriented one where public opinion, among other factors, matters on your decisions but we do consider your organization to make a fair attempt on presenting themselves as an unbiased group.
The effort and level of organization, synchronization and coordination done by this group in order to circumvent bonus limits , event limits, bet type limits, withdrawal limits and avoid profiling from our LineManagers and IT Personnel is concerning and the fact it is simply dismissed as "buddies sharing picks" without further explanation is scary to say the least.
If SBR considers the case closed and no further explanation is given to the many questions presented, we do ask to please
publish in full all the emails and data from all parities so our statement against syndicate betting can be seen everywhere and players can realize how we always go the extra mile to verify any incident prior to make any radical decisions. Doing so will show a great level of transparency from SBR even when a book does not agree with your decisions.
This group tried their luck and were able to get a massive profit from it. We want to send a strong message that
WE WILL NOT BE TARGET to these organizations and
they will not get a pass and a compensation if they get caught as it is being suggested on SBR's resolution. Groups like these are the ones who affected other books finances where thousands of good honest players lost their funds due to the abuse of others. SBR has seen vividly the consequences of not acting when necessary and taking a lenient posture on players who do not represent the good will of the player community.
We have very clear terms, conditions and rules available at signup, on our sportsbook rules and on every bonus acceptance that warns groups like this one of the consequences of attempting these actions against our company. Since no logic explanation has being given to the case presented we
have to enforce our terms. Decisions like this one may not be popular among a sector of the player community, but we can't bend and be part of their acts.
In our goal for transparency, a similar data package containing all emails, pictures and link information on this case will be distributed to other books and well known player sites so they can be aware of the exhaustive process we followed to maintain the integrity of our business.
BetRevolution is a safe and solid environment for the recreational and casual player and we will make sure to keep it that way for the enjoyment of all our members. Our rules, benefits, limits, bonus and organization in general is tailored to this market segment and as such we will protect ourselves and our members from people trying to take advantage of the privileges our players enjoy.
We are aware we are not SBR's best buddies for a while now, but we do respect them as an entity that makes all books review their procedures and be more cautious when making decisions, but we cant share their decision on this one. An entire dedicated team worked hard to make sure things were analyzed and consider on a fair way.
We believe they did. We do not mind being judge, but at least read all the information.
Best Regards,
Team Revolution
SBR Top-Rated Sportsbooks
BetRevolution Scam: Sportsbook winnings confiscated for Syndicate Betting
Originally Posted by erickvivar
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