[Santo]

260 to 190 in the last 3 hours.. bubble?

[Richards]

260 to 190 in the last 3 hours.. bubble?

Possibly. Part of it certainly is GOX is down due to DDOS attack during the price fall, so a large chunk of the market liquidity is removed, and probably some panic in what's left.

If that's correct and there are not other factors in play, maybe a buying opportunity.

[PhillyFlyers]

People who invest in a currency that is created out of thin air and is not backed by anything of tangible value are fukkin nuts.

Oh wait...........

[Santo]

111

[Santo]

Possibly. Part of it certainly is GOX is down due to DDOS attack during the price fall, so a large chunk of the market liquidity is removed, and probably some panic in what's left.

If that's correct and there are not other factors in play, maybe a buying opportunity.

I've not touched the currency at all, just an interested observer. But the recent rise (even without today's fall) is why many say it's too volatile to be a 'currency' currently.

[elgreco]

People who invest in a currency that is created out of thin air and is not backed by anything of tangible value are fukkin nuts.

Oh wait...........

+1

[Richards]

I've not touched the currency at all, just an interested observer. But the recent rise (even without today's fall) is why many say it's too volatile to be a 'currency' currently.

Well you definitely have a point, if it's going to be used as a currency instead of a pyramid investment scheme it will need to mature a little bit and stabilize. Needs liquidity. Hoarding and speculation won't help that.

The thing to learn from today was that having most of bitcoin exchange in one place is not a good thing. My non-educated guess was it was orchestrated: Sell large numbers at $220, DDOS MTGox the biggest exchange, what's left of the market joins in the panic selling, price dips down 60%, buy, repeat tomorrow? It would take large resources but you'd be making an 80% per day profit if executed right.

[Santo]

I watched the market for a bit and it looked to me as if some big traders had huge buy/sells out at ranges during the fall. Most recently there were roughly equal buys at 110 and sells at 150, and if so somebody was making an absolute fortune as people were taking both sides of that huge spread -- likely made possible by the lack of liquidity you identified.

[macb]

bitcoin..or..shitcoin

[pico]

trading halted because it dropped over 50%. according to bloomberg

[gomiamigo]

Unlike bitcoin, the USD is actually backed by something.

Just because that something is not 'metal underground or waiting to be dug up' does not mean it is not backed.

Anyone who tells you the USD is not backed is an ignorant moron, selling you something, or both.

[MagicDiceFlow]

Unlike bitcoin, the USD is actually backed by something.

Just because that something is not 'metal underground or waiting to be dug up' does not mean it is not backed.

Anyone who tells you the USD is not backed is an ignorant moron, selling you something, or both.

Backed up by what?....currently its just the promise of "full faith and currency of the USA".

At some point, the countries that the US owes trillions may request their amount in gold standard because the dollar isnt worth what it used to be. The US dollar would be in true total collapse if that situation should occur. This is why gold has skyrocketed over the last ten years because that day may come and when it does, the US dollar is screwed because the treasury will have to scramble to buy gold bars at over $3,000 an ounce to equate for every US dollar that is in circulation currently.

[Richards]

This correction isn't a bad thing.

The last few days have devolved into a lot of sharks manipulating and arbing a whole lot cash off some suckers who've never heard of the term arbitrage and are certainly just cashing back into USD/Euro. THAT certainly doesn't help Bitcoin as a currency at all.

Sorry to any folks who took a loss hopefully none here. Usual disclaimers about risking what you can afford, etc.

Of course tomorrow assuming no more exchange growing pains, the price could be $20 or $2000 USD/BTC.

The Bitcoin "industry" can learn from these things.

[indio]

Unlike bitcoin, the USD is actually backed by something.

Just because that something is not 'metal underground or waiting to be dug up' does not mean it is not backed.

Anyone who tells you the USD is not backed is an ignorant moron, selling you something, or both.

Federal Reserve Notes are nothing more than fiat promissory notes. You really should not be calling anyone ignorant in regards to a topic you obviously know nothing about son, you only embarrass yourself. If Federal Reserve Notes were backed by something, than they would have tangible value, which they do not. A Federal Reserve Note currently has purchasing power, since many merchants will accept it for product and/or services, but it is backed by nothing, therefore, if the currency was to be devalued to the extent that no merchant would accept it (or require a wheelbarrow of notes for a loaf of bread ala Weimer Republic), then it becomes essentially worthless because it is backed by nothing.

[macb]

This correction isn't a bad thing.

The last few days have devolved into a lot of sharks manipulating and arbing a whole lot cash off some suckers who've never heard of the term arbitrage and are certainly just cashing back into USD/Euro. THAT certainly doesn't help Bitcoin as a currency at all.

Sorry to any folks who took a loss hopefully none here. Usual disclaimers about risking what you can afford, etc.

Of course tomorrow assuming no more exchange growing pains, the price could be $20 or $2000 USD/BTC.

The Bitcoin "industry" can learn from these things.

20 or 2000.....LOL

[pico]

latest price 88

i guess when it hit 30, people should buy into it again. drugs on silk road are getting cheaper at the moment

[gomiamigo]

Backed up by what?....currently its just the promise of "full faith and currency of the USA".

That's *almost* correct. Now, are you perhaps a tad smarter than most idiots who believe in the magical shinyness of a gold-colored metal, so tell me....is the 'Full faith and credit of the USA' = nothing? The Federal taxing power = 'nothing?'

For extra credit, does the US make more money each and every year on the money we've invested and lent abroad than vice versa, or do we owe more money every year on money we've been lent from abroad than they owe us?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/

The last two years one side has gotten over $500bn more in interest + income paid to them from the other.

Spoiler Alert: It's the US that's getting hundreds of Billions more every year in interest, dividends and income, net, from the RoW than vice versa.

The argument you made about the US is correctly applied only to those countries as it stands. Not the US.

may request their amount in gold standard because the dollar isnt worth what it used to be

However, this is moronic. Their UST holdings are exchangeable for USD and nothing else. We didn't issue Giscard bonds.

FWIW, Gold is still below its inflation-adjusted price from 34 years ago. Anyone who has held it has: lost purchasing power, paid storage costs each year, paid insurance premiums each year. That's a ~2% compounding loss on storage and insurance alone for owners of any real size, plus the effects of inflation.

[touchback]

Originally Posted by MagicDiceFlow
Backed up by what?....currently its just the promise of "full faith and currency of the USA".



That's *almost* correct. Now, are you perhaps a tad smarter than most idiots who believe in the magical shinyness of a gold-colored metal, so tell me....is the 'Full faith and credit of the USA' = nothing? The Federal taxing power = 'nothing?'

For extra credit, does the US make more money each and every year on the money we've invested and lent abroad than vice versa, or do we owe more money every year on money we've been lent from abroad than they owe us?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/

The last two years one side has gotten over $500bn more in interest + income paid to them from the other.

Spoiler Alert: It's the US that's getting hundreds of Billions more every year in interest, dividends and income, net, from the RoW than vice versa.

The argument you made about the US is correctly applied only to those countries as it stands. Not the US.


may request their amount in gold standard because the dollar isnt worth what it used to be


However, this is moronic. Their UST holdings are exchangeable for USD and nothing else. We didn't issue Giscard bonds.

FWIW, Gold is still below its inflation-adjusted price from 34 years ago. Anyone who has held it has: lost purchasing power, paid storage costs each year, paid insurance premiums each year. That's a ~2% compounding loss on storage and insurance alone for owners of any real size, plus the effects of inflation.



Sharp..... Really Sharp...

[CrazyCarl]

That's *almost* correct. Now, are you perhaps a tad smarter than most idiots who believe in the magical shinyness of a gold-colored metal, so tell me....is the 'Full faith and credit of the USA' = nothing? The Federal taxing power = 'nothing?'

For extra credit, does the US make more money each and every year on the money we've invested and lent abroad than vice versa, or do we owe more money every year on money we've been lent from abroad than they owe us?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/

The last two years one side has gotten over $500bn more in interest + income paid to them from the other.

Spoiler Alert: It's the US that's getting hundreds of Billions more every year in interest, dividends and income, net, from the RoW than vice versa.

The argument you made about the US is correctly applied only to those countries as it stands. Not the US.



However, this is moronic. Their UST holdings are exchangeable for USD and nothing else. We didn't issue Giscard bonds.

FWIW, Gold is still below its inflation-adjusted price from 34 years ago. Anyone who has held it has: lost purchasing power, paid storage costs each year, paid insurance premiums each year. That's a ~2% compounding loss on storage and insurance alone for owners of any real size, plus the effects of inflation.

Yes, that equals nothing.

[touchback]

Yes, that equals nothing.

Correct.... but in this case that nothing is something....

[CrazyCarl]

Correct.... but in this case that nothing is something....

Nope. If people lose faith in the dollar, their faith in the US govt will also be gone and their ability to tax people for the worthless dollars they earn will also mean nothing. Hence, it means nothing.

[touchback]

Nope. If people lose faith in the dollar, their faith in the US govt will also be gone and their ability to tax people for the worthless dollars they earn will also mean nothing. Hence, it means nothing.

This gets complicated when we talk IFs.... right now the nothing is something and will remain something until IF.... IF has yet to come so technically is not a valid, it is a possibility.... With the state of everyone elses currency and the amount of media spin Americans are dumb enough to keep faith in just about anything as long as it is spoon fed to them through the telly and they are kept doped up on all available legal and illegal numbing agents. That is what really is going on.... keep the masses satiated and ignorant and keep playing games.... and the band played on.

[ELEMENT116]

Federal Reserve Notes are nothing more than fiat promissory notes. You really should not be calling anyone ignorant in regards to a topic you obviously know nothing about son, you only embarrass yourself. If Federal Reserve Notes were backed by something, than they would have tangible value, which they do not. A Federal Reserve Note currently has purchasing power, since many merchants will accept it for product and/or services, but it is backed by nothing, therefore, if the currency was to be devalued to the extent that no merchant would accept it (or require a wheelbarrow of notes for a loaf of bread ala Weimer Republic), then it becomes essentially worthless because it is backed by nothing.

Well, if it isn't a crackpot calling somebody ignorant, embarrassing. Since you're such a condescending internet clown who likes to attack the poster, I'll play.

"Fiat money" is the new catch phrase isn't it, how cool you are, all money is fiat money stupid, unless you're trading a cow for a pig. "Money" is based on two things, ability to trade it for goods now, whether its the fiat currencies of gold or dollars or bitcoins; how fast can they be traded into real stuff, and second, how they stand up over time, can you buy cool stuff in the future so can invest in that currency. Speed and time sport, it's all that matters.

That's why the U.S. dollar reigns supreme, the instantaneous ability to turn it into "stuff", and the acceptance of it over time because it's retaining value relative to other fiats.

Take your Hapsburg empire "I know more than you" crap and shove off anarchist or a monetary ass whipping could break out.

[raiders72001]

BTC may be the MySpace to an upcoming Facebook. Right now BTC is unstable and becoming too expensive to mine because of the costs involved. There are other crypto-currencies that may be the future. BTC, LTC, NMC, NVT, TRC and PPC are all crypto-currencies that are being traded. I would like to see BTC stay, but one of the others may take over.

[ELEMENT116]

This is a currency too, does $300 billion a year in Japan. Bitcoin at $1 billion cap, btc-lite, maybe $50mil cap.

Panchenko, proving the value of steel balls for decades.

[CrazyCarl]

This gets complicated when we talk IFs.... right now the nothing is something and will remain something until IF.... IF has yet to come so technically is not a valid, it is a possibility.... With the state of everyone elses currency and the amount of media spin Americans are dumb enough to keep faith in just about anything as long as it is spoon fed to them through the telly and they are kept doped up on all available legal and illegal numbing agents. That is what really is going on.... keep the masses satiated and ignorant and keep playing games.... and the band played on.

Since we're talking about the supposed things that back up the dollar in case of a failure, this is not at all complicating things to talk about if people start losing faith in the dollar.

If the supposed things that are backing up the dollar no longer apply in the case of people losing faith in the dollar, than they count as nothing, just like our good friend was kind enough to point out in his very lengthy post.