[touchback]

I ran into this... filled in some holes in my homework so wondering how accurate it is if anyone knows... but even if accurate it is only a backer. George and Griffin run that shop and seem to be standup guys, so what is the real deal. Should they be held accountable for a backers past questionable deeds... anybody want to weigh in on the subject feel free. Maybe we can get this straight and possibly help G & G out... seems that they are just grinding out a new straight service with alot of mountains to get over... it is a hard biz, Post UP that is.









1.Legends Sportsbook: Deceptive operators surge ahead in 2013

I cannot believe the props these posters here at EOG giving for this SCAM book. Just like with BetIslands, word of mouth can do wonders for a book no matter the quality. I feel it's my duty to state the FACTS.


Here are the FACTS I can tell you guys:


1) Legends Sportsbook [NOT the REAL Legendz] deceived players via cold calls claiming to be Legendz offering post-up. After the deposit an emulated website (operated by Robbie M\*\*\*\*\*\*) informed the player their deposit was entered in to Americas Booke.

2) APEX, and APEX Sportsbook (two different sites, same book) defrauded nearly 100% of players in 2005. Basically, they pulled a “BETED” or a “BetIslands”. They stuffed the money in their pockets and walked out. That is a fact. APEX was operated by Robbie M\*\*\*\*\*\*, the current brain behind *****, VICE1, and Legends Sportsbook.

3) LasPalmasSportsbook stiffed every single player and packed up shop. LasPalmasSportsbook was run by the same management—almost IDENTICAL management as VICE1 and *****. LasPalmasSportsbook is long gone. They stiffed every one of their players. That’s a fact. It’s also a fact many of the individuals from LasPalmasSportsbook are working VICE1, *****, and of course- Legends Sportsbook.



It seems whenever I mention LasPalmasSportsbook and tie the name to these other books shills freak out because that is basically the death sentence. Those guys were worse than APEX, if that's even possible. But I assure you, these are the same frauds currently stated above.

[alibaba]

poor

[Inkwell77]

Good info

[Kaps]

great job on getting the word out ...thx

[goombah]

Thx for the info. So what are George and Griffin's roles? Going by the info you have posted, I wouldn't have too much confidence in posting up money there. Not sure how I could see G & G helping prevent another Beted whenever mgmt decides to pull the plug.

[touchback]

Well... G & G are stand up guys and have been around a little while making their bones as sales at a few other outfits. They were done dirty at the last place so decided they had had enough and figured they could start a book. No big deal, quite a few have successfully gone this route and are still running strong to this day. Their overall setup is streamlined but I kinda like it. Really, with inet, mobile and smart phones who really needs a call center anymore.... it is a dying option. I can go up and order a fast food meal or movie tickets with my debit or CC so why need a call center. More trouble than it is worth. They are pushing a strong live lines board and their terms and conditions protect them from major cracks... meaning crack em for 20 dimes and they will pay over a structured time frame. Fair enough as long as you get paid right. They are strong on customer service and entertaining perks and gimmicks which is geared more towards the recreational player which is really what they want anyway. My only concerns might be those high reloads but if you are throwing out sharps and lucky guys fast then it does not matter because only squares are getting these big reloads. My thinking though is that throwing out all lucky players can undermine a long term customer revenue base which is the only foolish thing they are really doing... lucky streaks never last and if a guy is accomodated he will remember that and keep coming in for all his losing streaks which is gonna be 70% to 90% of the time. This is where the lions share of revenues come from... so that being said, if they manage even their exposure well and overall have a sharp business model it does not matter that much if R pulls out because if the books numbers look allright another back will pick them up. So, ya I am thinking they are good for a few hundro and that if your a player treat them with respect and they will let you stick around. Meaning, do not pull a Thremp and kick in their door and try and roll them for tens of thousands of dollars, that is disrespectful and has consequences the least of which is losing an out and getting a crappy rep in the industry... which means losing outs that are hard to replace or losing outs that you do not even have yet because no one will take your action. Ya, word gets around. Give the shop something to work with (they can lay off or push their lines off of your action if your that good) and they will let you make a reasonable return for your time, skill and knowledge. Books are not the enemies, they are partners in all best scenarios.

[looneytunes]

Seems someone has taken on ***** as a new account. As for deserved or undeserved press, noticed an add for this book on a couple other forums looking for sales people who are willing to jump ship and bring accounts with them. Seems a little shady to me, good luck on figuring it out.

[touchback]

Ya... saw that too... was a move worthy of EZ Street. Books do this all the time but have enough common sense to not use a house contact email address... I am sure someone got an ear full over that and you will not see it again but none the less, every sales hire that goes down one of the first questions they are asked if they got experience is if they have any guys or lists. This is for 2 reasons I will not go into...

[goombah]

Thx Touchback for you info.

I remember seeing a post in a thread a few months ago where ***** were willing to help out ppl screwed by BI. Were there any truth to those rumors?

[robmpink]

I'm not an industry insider. I remember things I see every now and then. I don't think your assumption is correct. Maybe about 2 years ago, maybe less, SBR gave a ratings increase to *****, which is run by the fella you mention in here. Increased to C- maybe or c something. I'm sure when they improved the books ratings, they were well versed in the fellas history. My assumption is this. They weren't payout complaints over the past few years (at the time of the ratings increase). SBR saw this was a good opportunity to use this to try to entice the fella into giving them kickbacks so the grade can continue to increase. That didn't fly. In addition, the fella got another good forum running. So no kick backs and a forum caused the sudden change of heart.

[dark star]

I have no clue whats going on...all I know is that ***** paid me 4g over a 4 week period...which,in my opinion,was a good job on their part.

I have noreason to state nothing but the truth.They have paid me and a friend of mine within the time frame that they have stated.

[touchback]

I'm not an industry insider. I remember things I see every now and then. I don't think your assumption is correct. Maybe about 2 years ago, maybe less, SBR gave a ratings increase to *****, which is run by the fella you mention in here. Increased to C- maybe or c something. I'm sure when they improved the books ratings, they were well versed in the fellas history. My assumption is this. They weren't payout complaints over the past few years (at the time of the ratings increase). SBR saw this was a good opportunity to use this to try to entice the fella into giving them kickbacks so the grade can continue to increase. That didn't fly. In addition, the fella got another good forum running. So no kick backs and a forum caused the sudden change of heart.

Right... no arguments here. I think there is validity to what your saying pink, just wondering how people feel about this rather well known content and how does it really effect an independent service and managers trying to do what appears to be the right thing if you know what I mean. In all reality there are alot of scumbags behind the scenes of alot of well known standup places but the guys out front are what the public see as the image... only us guys in the know have an idea of whos who and whats what. So... is ONE VICE one thing and the rest another... maybe in this case just like many others. Guess it is up to the player to decide but my thinking at the moment is ONE VICE is probably good for a few hundros if your an in an out kind of player. Just like EZ, I personally would not worry about throwing em a few hundro or LooseLines either. In fact Jazz and Harvey are pretty standup and instead of stiffing a bunch of guys when things got tough they structured and paid... that is a standup move in my book. Ya, guys want their money but sh1t happens and people try to do the best they can... in this biz and other aspects of life. I have owed and could not pay off the debt straight up so worked it down over time in the past... especially ************ when I was young. Do not give a twenty year old 5 or 10 CCs with 5 or 10 dimes on each and expect them to be fiscally responsible, took me 5 years to pay those suckers off but I did instead of pulling a walk away which seems to be the norm now. Now a days I would not give any one a dime or nickel on the arm... period. Peoples way of thinking has changed for the worse and they just cannot be trusted with debt especially gamblers.

[Inkwell77]

lol
why is sbr changing 1-v-i-c-e to *****?

[the_orangekat]

I'd like to hear how the outlet in question has screwed people over. I see allot of negativity with zero substance. People with no dog in the race like to pile on since they got nothing better to do with their time.

Please post true examples when you put down a book rep or book, itself...i.e.,' they slow payed me so and so amount on such and such a date'. Or 'the place stole this much money from me on such and such a date.'

Real problems, real money amounts, real dates, please otherwise you are wasting all of the people who read this thread's time.

I know I've never had an issue with the place in question. G and G have been stand-up guys, paid on time. Being an online gambler for 21 years, I have been screwed by other books (probably about a dozen in one way or another) but not by them but if others have, I would like to hear about it.

[touchback]

The thread was about why SBR has them rated they way they do.... do you have any reading comprehension ability. You can infer from the rest of the content that yes G & G are standup and overall the service is doing well. So, no time is being wasted orange, you just lack critical thinking and reading comprehension skills but if it is still a waste of your time feel free not to open the thread again if you do not get it... this forum is about sportsbooks & the industry... so seriously... fck off.

[robmpink]

They def have it in for them. The one guy, George, has a funny screen name, gummy bears. He isn't fond of it. In one thread a mod actually let him change his screen name. I saw it w/ my own eyes. The next day it was back to gummy bears.

No reason at all to void the name. It goes to show how SBR has it in for the fella who backs it. They are quick to limit you and close your account if you win, but they pay. No reason for the dish rating.

I'm sure if true players voiced their opinion on their experiences with won vhice or other books in this family, SBR should take that into consideration. That is in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world so no matter what players say, they will languish like they have the plague in SBR eyes. The players know better though.

[Courtesywipe]

Shady place! Have you ever seen a book email as much as one-slice seeking deposits? Up to several emails in any given day. That proves how desperate they really are. Some of you will say that it is just Griffin promoting his business, but I see it different when it starts to border on harassment. My best guess would be that they won't make it thru another 15 months as players know there are much safer outs. If small players ($100-$300 per deposit) are looking for a nice deposit bonus, which one-slice does give, they will start to migrate towards betrevolution where you can get s much better bonus in form of cash bonus and in addition have a safer place for your funds to sit.

I mean how many books are closed at 4pm on a Sunday afternoon? One-slice was closed for business this afternoon with a bunch of NBA and NHL getting ready to start.

I am no genius, but that can't be good for business. I challenge anyone to come up with a book that was closed today in the late afternoon?

[thebookie]

1 Slice, is under the RDG umbrella, ***** is the Main brand, and has not had a problem, or meaningful dispute, sincetheir inception... to guess they will not be around in 15 months, is a like you said is just a guess, and you did was NO meaningful research.

Information found on SBR
***** Sportsbook (SBR rating D) has made a number of improvements in the last six months. ***** has been open to discussing player disputes with SBR, shown the ability to effectively perform risk management and has revamped their business model.


***** (SBR rating D-). Although the ***** brands have not failed to pay a player since their inception.


***** was upgraded to D- in July of 2009 after there were no nonpayment reports in more than three years.


***** has not had a meaningful dispute submitted against them in the past six months - the most recent news was a player confirming a $3,000 payment in June of this year.


***** players are not believed to be in danger of being stiffed, though SBR will continue to evaluate the sportsbook's standing and monitor any incoming sportsbook disputes.

Regarding this past, Saturday and Sunday, 1 Slice, was moving to a larger office, so there could have been times when they were unavailable.

[robmpink]

Lol, so wipe feels like he is harassed and really means it, yet is mad because they were closed early. Sort of like the girl who complains she is being stalked, but penetrates the stalker.

Anyway, courtesywipe knows the complain game well. It netted him some freeplays with BI. Same stuff going on here.

[Courtesywipe]

Lol, so wipe feels like he is harassed and really means it, yet is mad because they were closed early. Sort of like the girl who complains she is being stalked, but penetrates the stalker.

Anyway, courtesywipe knows the complain game well. It netted him some freeplays with BI. Same stuff going on here.

Can see you have not changed at bit. I would give $$ for you to not be hiding in cyberspace

[robmpink]

The guy is upset NOW because they weren't there yesterday. I get it, I would be mad. No mention of it last night from him. Most likely he busted out at GT Bets and now is trying to get a free handout here for his troubles, lol.


Hey wipester, let everyone know why won vhister is one of the shadiest books as you put it. Back up what you say Mr. hard earned money. Also you and I both know you had no money in your BI account when stuff went down.

Hit up double-reload cash bonus on Saturday. 40% cash bonus and very, very easy to meet rollover requirements. This shop is very generous with their promos and I will continue to use them as my top 3 out. I guess some things happen for good reasons. I would have never signed up at Gtbets if it wasn't for BI taken off with my money.

One more thing- just wanted to say that ONE Victor Igloo Cat has to be the shadiest book I have come across in my offshore venture.

[robmpink]

Can see you have not changed at bit. I would give $$ for you to not be hiding in cyberspace

You would spend your "hard earned money" to meet me? Guy was a victim of BI, yet had a $0 balance. He would complain w/ BI for any reason to get a freeplay, over 10 times.

He is harassed by e-mails with this book, yet gets mad when the place didn't answer, even though he has no balance there. Hmmm, that makes sense.


Here is one example of his complaints to get a fp.

"F@ck me! USC scores an early touchdown in the second half. This down time may end up taking money $$ out of my god damn pocket"!

[touchback]

One more thing- just wanted to say that ONE Victor Igloo Cat has to be the shadiest book I have come across in my offshore venture.

Onion Victor.... that is some strong words for this service. Considering your composition ability would you care too elaborate... me and many more are awaiting with baited breath....

[Courtesywipe]

I apologize for calling Griffin out. Griffin is a stand-up dude and I should not have stooped to that level. Just a breakdown in communication with these guys. Mostly with George who Griffin says in longer with the book. My apologies, forgive me!

[touchback]

I apologize for calling Griffin out. Griffin is a stand-up dude and I should not have stooped to that level. Just a breakdown in communication with these guys. Mostly with George who Griffin says in longer with the book. My apologies, forgive me!

HHMMM, someone implied I might have taken them on as a new account. Do not think they would want to afford me but who knows. But I have not taken them on and news that George has left is news to me... can any OP confirm this instead of me calling around, just curious...

[Courtesywipe]

Maybe George is still there? Griffin personally told me George was no longer there however.

[PaperTrail07]

Unless a poster has been around for 3-4+ years....dont trust any info he gives you..


SIMPLE AS THAT......unless there is proof.....

Would you believe me if i said my new site BOOKIEKING is 100% legit...always pays man....

go ask SMOKE....oh wait....where is he...cough cough

[PaperTrail07]

just my couple pennies.....saw a lot of people trust "smoke"...lol and the guy was the biggest fuckkn idiot ever....

I was calling him out, and he sent me a PM....Ill never forget it

"hey heard you were a good capper"....lol....i pretty much said Chill dude...i know whats up LOL....

LOL sounded like a SPAM e-mail .....sorry to rant...juuuus saying

[PaperTrail07]

couple posts to protect $ is not outta this world...

[Mikeyanks23]

Thx Touchback for you info.

I remember seeing a post in a thread a few months ago where ***** were willing to help out ppl screwed by BI. Were there any truth to those rumors?

yes gave me a fp for my balance at betislands after i sent GRiffin a screenshot of my betislands balance. Low Rollover too

[InsiderHer]

You guys never learn.

[Courtesywipe]

Stand-up book, Griffin emailed me today and game me %150 freeplay with just 10x roll, included a 10$ cash bonus as well. I think that is stand-up IMO.

[dark star]

Grif is a good guy IMHO

[Courtesywipe]

Makes me want to deposit there more often when you get above average customer service.

[InsiderHer]

Stand-up book, Griffin emailed me today and game me %150 freeplay with just 10x roll, included a 10$ cash bonus as well. I think that is stand-up IMO.

When a book gives away the house you consider it stand up? LOL. The only time a book is stand up is when they pay you your winnings.