[SportsMushroom]

yes i know

i said from begining it made no sense for top books to bailout them out, so wasnt suprised at all

were is the announcement if you dont mind me asking?

[5mike5]

were is the announcement if you dont mind me asking?

was in "are all books ponzi schemes?" thread...

bill made a few posts, but its around post #22 i think?

(wasnt what i would call a announcement per say, but basically he said its not going to happen)

[tto827]

I agree, the bailout should be without restrictions or conditions

a group of books should get together and share the cost of giving players their money back

if you get the top books, 5dimes, bookmaker, bovada, dsi, heritage, legends, thats 250,000 each in player funds, they put a rollover on it which will guarantee that many will not cash out, and with minimal funds they can restore credibitily

ofcourse people will deposit after that, if they know that their funds are guaranteed by the books, that in the case of a collapse the rest will step in, in my opinion trust will be restored

and yes just like people now are not depositing because they are angry over BI, with a good bailout they will give more business to the books out of gratitude, if people trust that their money is safe they will not hesitate sending money offshore

Same company, not going to bail out double. The majority of people need to gamble, they will continue to send money offshore, and books know it. If everyone was like you and committed to not sending it offshore, maybe something would have happened. It just isn't financially smart for a book to do it, or they would have already.

[SportsMushroom]

Same company, not going to bail out double. The majority of people need to gamble, they will continue to send money offshore, and books know it. If everyone was like you and committed to not sending it offshore, maybe something would have happened. It just isn't financially smart for a book to do it, or they would have already.

you are probably right, people need to gamble I guess outweights what happened with BI

good thing is, when the next book crumbles and people bitch about it then we wont have to feel sorry for them

[James D]

Same company, not going to bail out double. The majority of people need to gamble, they will continue to send money offshore, and books know it. If everyone was like you and committed to not sending it offshore, maybe something would have happened. It just isn't financially smart for a book to do it, or they would have already.

I agree the majority of people need to bet. However many people, the vast majority actually, have the option to deal with locals. They did not and went through the MAJOR HASSLE of betting offshore because of the FEAR that the local is a criminal scumbag. Well they are now faced with the FACT that the offshores are the criminal scumbags so why wouldnt they just go local? Its easier to pay, collect, and if someone beats you they are not thousands of miles away.

Most important with a local you settle weekly so these HUGE numbers these guys got beat for would never happen. Seems to me with the way this business is offshore I am lucky I always bet with locals. You guys deal with absolute lowlifes in costa rica

[tto827]

you are probably right, peoples need to gamble I guess outways what happened with BI

good thing is, when the next book crumbles and people bitch about it then we wont have to feel sorry for them

You always got to feel bad for them, they are being stolen from. This has happened before, and it will happen again. Just don't play with shops that have an unsustainable business model.

I agree the majority of people need to bet. However many people, the vast majority actually, have the option to deal with locals. They did not and went through the MAJOR HASSLE of betting offshore because of the FEAR that the local is a criminal scumbag. Well they are now faced with the FACT that the offshores are the criminal scumbags so why wouldnt they just go local? Its easier to pay, collect, and if someone beats you they are not thousands of miles away.

Most important with a local you settle weekly so these HUGE numbers these guys got beat for would never happen. Seems to me with the way this business is offshore I am lucky I always bet with locals. You guys deal with absolute lowlifes in costa rica

I've got the same amount of trust in CRIS and 5dimes as I would in any local. Your local may be an exception, but he's likely got a goon squad, or does the dirty work himself, so something tells me he too may be a lowlife. It's a personal preference obviously, the other thing I like about offshore is I can never get in over my head, if I can't fund it immediately, I can't bet it.

[James D]

You always got to feel bad for them, they are being stolen from. This has happened before, and it will happen again. Just don't play with shops that have an unsustainable business model.

I've got the same amount of trust in CRIS and 5dimes as I would in any local. Your local may be an exception, but he's likely got a goon squad, or does the dirty work himself, so something tells me he too may be a lowlife. It's a personal preference obviously, the other thing I like about offshore is I can never get in over my head, if I can't fund it immediately, I can't bet it.

I would personally have MORE trust in Cris and 5dimes then a typical local. Not that they are immune, bigger gambling sites then both of them have gone under. Anything is possible. I do not disagree with you in that regard. However one major drawback is withdrawals and when money sits there and builds and builds sometimes disasters happen. With a local you settle every week.

I am not saying locals are good citizens, I am just saying its apparent that neither are the offshore guys. So I would rather settle up weekly, and have the guy who I deal with 4 miles away not 4000.

[tto827]

I would personally have MORE trust in Cris and 5dimes then a typical local. Not that they are immune, bigger gambling sites then both of them have gone under. Anything is possible. I do not disagree with you in that regard. However one major drawback is withdrawals and when money sits there and builds and builds sometimes disasters happen. With a local you settle every week.

I am not saying locals are good citizens, I am just saying its apparent that neither are the offshore guys. So I would rather settle up weekly, and have the guy who I deal with 4 miles away not 4000.

Exactly, its just preference when dealing with good books vs. good locals. Settling week by week is a plus.

[goombah]

personally, i would rather deal with offshore, but you guys are probably right in that there is too much instability offshore if nothing can get done.

[blackbox]

trust 5 Dimes and Heritage, anything to do with horses needs to be TVG OR TWINSPIRES, and as far as the US is concerned Nevada. gl guys-it is a shame that wagering is not legal in all 50 states and even a bigger shame that the action of a few dishonorable offshore books leave a permanent scar for the rest of the industry, including forums. dl gentlemen.

[tarheelfan72]

If I understand you correctly, that's my point. Bonus shopping and reduced juice is nice, but if the book doesn't have proper risk management, they'll end up right alongside BI. None of the big name books came through with bailouts because they didn't see it as being financially responsible. And if Cris, 5dimes, legends, and heritage are all unwilling, it probably means that any book that does take on the debt is making a mistake (from a financial perspective), and is a riskier bet then one of the big names.

I think most of us learned from the BI fiasco that if something looks too good to be true, it probably is. Bonus chasing doesn't seem so enticing in the current environment. And the people that got burned by BI aren't going to go looking for another bubblegum book with a large bonus when they go bust.

[bettilimbroke999]

Id rather bet with a local any day than a 3rd world unregulated book right now...99% of em just want to pull a BetIslands and steal ur money, the other 1% are under so much heat from the US govt they are a threat to have their accounts frozen, be arrested etc at any time.

I like playin at 5Dimes but I keep my balance low...if their owner takes a vacation to Vegas (as these idiots always seem to come to the US for some reason) and immediately gets arrested at the airport then at least I'll just get ****** for a small amount.

If a local gets arrested its 50/50 I owe him and actually save money

[mtneer1212]

trust 5 Dimes and Heritage, anything to do with horses needs to be TVG OR TWINSPIRES, and as far as the US is concerned Nevada. gl guys-it is a shame that wagering is not legal in all 50 states and even a bigger shame that the action of a few dishonorable offshore books leave a permanent scar for the rest of the industry, including forums. dl gentlemen.

All pari-mutuel US horse books that are licensed in the US are safe and legal. Funds are guaranteed by the racing commissions of the state where they are licensed. TVG is actually the worst because they charge 25 cents a bet. Awful. Twinspires, dayatthetrack, darkhorsebet, drfbets, and others are all good and safe.

[Microphone]

5 Dimes, Bookmaker, Legends. First one has low juice option, but doesn't give away the farm on bonuses. The latter 2 -110 juice or higher but somewhat attractive bonuses. They don't give the farm away which is why they're still standing. It's not rocket science.

[tarheelfan72]

All of the above are pretty safe until the justice department closes them down one day and their site displays an FBI logo instead of a badly misspelled goodbye message.

[bubba]

All of the above are pretty safe until the justice department closes them down one day and their site displays an FBI logo instead of a badly misspelled goodbye message.

bookmaker had the site taken away by the DOJ. still in operation. Pokerstars was shut down by the US gov't, paid everybody.

[mtneer1212]

bookmaker had the site taken away by the DOJ. still in operation. Pokerstars was shut down by the US gov't, paid everybody.

And now Pokerstars has purchased an Atlantic City casino.

[Hankwins]

bookmaker had the site taken away by the DOJ. still in operation. Pokerstars was shut down by the US gov't, paid everybody.

how does that work?

[James D]

how does that work?

Taking down the website is not nearly as difficult as seizing assets. These websites all have back up servers with client info so they know who has what in their accts.

[tto827]

Taking down the website is not nearly as difficult as seizing assets. These websites all have back up servers with client info so they know who has what in their accts.

Well put. Not all books though. But all the good ones do. To a smaller book, seizing the domain name would probably finish them.

[James D]

Well put. Not all books though. But all the good ones do. To a smaller book, seizing the domain name would probably finish them.

I agree that many smaller books would close if the domain was seized. After what I have seen in my short time here I would assume many small books would love to get seized so they have an excuse to steal your money whether they had the data backed up or not. If justice closed a book the owners would get a lot less heat then garbage like this Jon guy that so obviously scammed everyone here. Reading posts from guys like Bubba really makes me feel horrible.

[touchback]

Most services have already acquired backup domains and if not being used this second can easily be brought up online and a mirrored website up and running very quickly, hours or less... but I am surprised any decent post up service would stil be using a dot com which is what can be seized.

[Miz]

bump

[Alltheway]

Betislands actually was broke and when the legal issues hit which they did it was the final crippling blow , i had friends who lost money there they paid for info on what happened and it seems everyone in the know down there knows what happened.

Book was beaten up , the banker caught heat they pulled out and it went belly up.

This is why I am on here before posting up anywere to really do my own due diligence on what service to use.

[Miz]

This is why I am on here before posting up anywere to really do my own due diligence on what service to use.

These are wise words. After I got burned, I began to read all the trouble that guys are having at other books, like betonline for example. It is far better to learn from other men's life lessons, than to learn from your own.