[LoadNukes]

Hi All,


This is my first post on the forum. My name is Jana. I'm mainly a HU player. My screen name on BOL was(is) LoadNukes. I was approached on 9th of October by a BOL player who directed me to vip-grinders.com (group of affiliates and regulars including a BOL affiliate) with the question if I wanted to play on BOL. I expressed my doubts in the very beginning, saying I have read numerous stories regarding chip dumping accusations and that I don't need another PayNoRake on my hands. He assured me BOL is a legitimate site, paying out well and in time. Since I was creating an account over a site which includes a BOL affiliate, I hoped for the best and felt more secure.


It all started well, I even managed to receive my first withdrawal of 8000. I requested a second one of 5000 which was approved but not sent. After 10 days, I requested another one and then things started. Withdrawal was partially approved. The poker department was checking still.


On Friday 23th of November 2012, my account was suspended, apparently on chip dumping accusation. I even heard from 1 source that it was "blatant" chip dumping, that there is nothing I could do about it and that they will close my account. After writing numerous emails to their service management asking for any sort of details of this "investigation" or hand histories and talking with their live chat, that is basically all I found out. I will post here the last mail from service management, anybody interested in the whole correspondence, pm me and I will send it to you:


Hi xxxx,


>This is Vlad from BetOnline,
In regards to the previous emails this is to inform you that unfortunately your account is permanently closed due to a your account was involved in fraud activity with CC and also on the poker site.


If you have any other questions or require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best Regards,


I contacted Lou from SBR. He provided me with practically all the information I posses at this moment.
-4 people whose screen names are
Toshibahhh
maxlouis
SlowPace84
Jtrain78


apparently deposited 500 with their CC to BOL sportsbook, all transfered 470 (??) to poker and all 4 lost their bankrolls to me within 24 hours.


I'm asking these 4 players, if any of you recognize your screen names, to contact me or even better write in this thread. You can proove your innocence as well as mine and keep your integrity in tact.


Whoever plays at Chico poker network, that BOL is a part of, has probably seen me sitting at HU tables, or playing 1k 6max games. So if they did transfer to poker and decided to play HU, it would be pretty likely, they would run into me. Any BOL reg could confirm on that. And if they play badly, its pretty likely they would loose their money to me.


What I still dont understand is my motivation behind this scheme. Why couldn't these 4 people just transfer money to my bank account or to my Scrill instead of "giving" it to me in a poker game? What did I gain, or anybody actually by doing this? And especially since I was worried in the very beginning about possible false accusations from BOL. Why woud I venture such a profitless, ill minded and plainly dumb fraud?


If anybody would have taken 5 minutes of their time, checked the names or any information connected to their CC, they would understand I have absolutely no idea who these 4 people are at all and I have nothing at all to do with this. The worse thing is that they probably closed their accounts as well, which means that they could not make a deposit anymore even if they wanted to, which would prove my innocence immediately. This reminds me of the inqusition processes.

At this moment I would like to keep everything as transparent as possible. I have all the mailing history and the live chat sessions stored. If anybody is interested, I could send it to them or post it.


I turn to the SBR community for moral support and any kind of advice. I will keep you posted of the ongoings, because I will not give this one up. My first step will be to write to the Panama government who issued the gaming licence to BOL. At this moment I have about 24700 USD on my suspended account.


I'm also counting on SBR and Vip-grinders too to strive for the truth in this matter and I thank them in advance.

[DudleyDawson]

Another BO scam.

[sickler]

The four all deposited $500 by cc and lost their BR to you? How much did you deposit, Loadnukes?

Were there CC charge backs by the four losers?

[Optional]

Sounds like at least one party isn't telling the full truth here.

[LoadNukes]

The four all deposited $500 by cc and lost their BR to you? How much did you deposit, Loadnukes?

Were there CC charge backs by the four losers?

Yes, so I was told bye Lou. They deposited 500 each, transfered 470 to poker and lost it to me. I deposited in the middle of October, alltogether 4600usd. I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand the last question.

[princecharles]

I want to see more information before I jump on either bandwagon.

Fraud DOES occur.
&
BOL is highly immature in their risk management areas.

[LoadNukes]

Sounds like at least one party isn't telling the full truth here.

I have absolutely nothing to hide and would be the happiest person in the world if there would be a huge investigation, made public of course. As I have said, I'm willing to post all my emailings, skype discussions and live chat sessions. I'm willing for the neutral party to review my bank account transfers, my Scrill(moneybookers) transfers, my phone calls, my messaging, allinall anything that would help the truth.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

What I still dont understand is my motivation behind this scheme. Why couldn't these 4 people just transfer money to my bank account or to my Scrill instead of "giving" it to me in a poker game?

Stolen card details, deposit, chip dump. Or a **********, with the same end result.

Presumably these four all had a payment problem.

[LoadNukes]

Stolen card details, deposit, chip dump. Or a **********, with the same end result.

Presumably these four all had a payment problem.

I understand now, or at least I think I do. I'm sure there would be easier ways to get money from these CCs, or at the very least better poker sites to do so. However, the best would be if I could get the hand histories of these matches, plus the IPs from which they were playing from. Hand histories will show there was no chip dumping and the IPs will show where these 4 people, that had obviously stolen the cards (?) were playing from. I' m certain they are nowhere near Slovenia, where I come from. There have to be some other evidences that show I'm in no way connected with these people or involved in this ridiculous accusation. Perhaps Lou cold get the hand histories and the IPs in question from BOL? I will write for the a hundreth time to them myself, but I believe if anybody can get this it's probably Lou.

[buyacka1]

Even if there where chargebacks op has 25k locked up so if 4 charged back which hasn't been confirmed they put lock on whole 25k? There are now 2 threads like this on 2 plus 2 opened within days of each other with another player waiting 4 months for a resoloution.

[Optional]

I have absolutely nothing to hide and would be the happiest person in the world if there would be a huge investigation, made public of course. As I have said, I'm willing to post all my emailings, skype discussions and live chat sessions. I'm willing for the neutral party to review my bank account transfers, my Scrill(moneybookers) transfers, my phone calls, my messaging, allinall anything that would help the truth.

Then you already know which party is lying then. Proceed with that knowledge front of your mind.

Almost no chance 4 ********** artists would all dump their entire deposits to you by coincidence. So they either don't exist, or weren't really scammers at all. Just 4 people who happened to lose the same size CC deposit to you. Did you ask them over what time frame this is alleged to have occurred?

[Emily_Haines]

Why the fuk do people allow their balance to get so high at these shit books?

The book has had nothing but problems paying people.

[darkhat]

shocker

must read the forum often

[mtneer1212]

If books would stop using CCs, there wouldn't be these problems.

[Mikeyanks23]

If books would stop using CCs, there wouldn't be these problems.

[LoadNukes]

Then you already know which party is lying then. Proceed with that knowledge front of your mind.

Almost no chance 4 ********** artists would all dump their entire deposits to you by coincidence. So they either don't exist, or weren't really scammers at all. Just 4 people who happened to lose the same size CC deposit to you. Did you ask them over what time frame this is alleged to have occurred?

Lou gave me the info that it all happened in a 24 hour time frame. I'm very concerned that this might be a set up, a scam by BOL to relief me of my funds. I took 28k in just over a month of playing there. Do you have any advice on how I should proceed?

[Optional]

Lou gave me the info that it all happened in a 24 hour time frame. I'm very concerned that this might be a set up, a scam by BOL to relief me of my funds. I took 28k in just over a month of playing there. Do you have any advice on how I should proceed?

Sorry, I don't know what you could do. Apart from bringing up the matter on forums like this.

If what you say is true, you are being shafted by someone it seems. If BOL really does have strong evidence of 4 new CC customers dumping to you in 24 hours I doubt they will bend very far though. And if they made it up, you have even less chance.

What does Lou suggest? Does he say the funds over and above that play will ever be returned? Does he agree with BOL's stance to hold your entire balance? Does he know if it will make any difference if the other 4 players turn out to be genuine after a period of time?

[Optional]

Actually I do know what you could do, but it will cost you another couple of thousand and the will to bother. (but I'd still try and work with Lou to the bitter end if you can get him on board with helping you. That would be your best chance of recovering something imho)

If all else failed, I'd probably go the route of complaining to their local police, government officials and regulator. I might send a cease and desist order from my local court to their ISP, domain provider and hosting company. Maybe hire a local lawyer to lodge a civil claim in their local court. Hopefully find a US based owner or senior officer and lodge in their local court too. I'm sure I could think of a bunch more things the more money involved.

People think you can do nothing. Those people just aren't motivated or determined enough.

SBR thought it was possible for Cory to sue EZ

Just depends on how motivated you are to make them pay, one way or another.

That said, you will be wasting your time if those 4 players was someone trying to send you money that way. ;-)

[LoadNukes]

Actually I do know what you could do, but it will cost you another couple of thousand and the will to bother. (but I'd still try and work with Lou to the bitter end if you can get him on board with helping you. That would be your best chance of recovering something imho)

If all else failed, I'd probably go the route of complaining to their local police, government officials and regulator. I might send a cease and desist order from my local court to their ISP, domain provider and hosting company. Maybe hire a local lawyer to lodge a civil claim in their local court. Hopefully find a US based owner or senior officer and lodge in their local court too. I'm sure I could think of a bunch more things the more money involved.

People think you can do nothing. Those people just aren't motivated or determined enough.

SBR thought it was possible for Cory to sue EZ

Just depends on how motivated you are to make them pay, one way or another.

That said, you will be wasting your time if those 4 players was someone trying to send you money that way. ;-)

Optional, thank you very much for your advice. It was most helpful and I will consider every possibility that you mentioned. I will send a formal letter of complaint today to their licence provider. If this doesn't work, I will issue a lawsuit. For that I would need a Panam lawyer, but as I said, I will go with this one all the way.
I thank Lou for the info he has provided thus far and the effort he has put in. I wish he gets involved in this matter more intensly, if for nothing else, then just to reveal the truth. I wrote to BOL again, asking my hhs from these matches and the IPs they were playing from. In my experience I either won't get an answer or I won't get the things that I asked for in that answer.
I know Lou is probably my best chance. I also realize he must be a pretty busy man and my problem probably isn't the only one on his list. However at this moment, I mostly depend on the licence provider and on Lou to try to do the right thing and try getting to the bottom of this.

[KEdge2k]

I will definitely be interested to see how this one plays out

[mtneer1212]

If at least 3 of the 4 guys he wiped out all took chargebacks on the CC - then I'm sorry -- this is a scam.

[benandjerry]

If at least 3 of the 4 guys he wiped out all took chargebacks on the CC - then I'm sorry -- this is a scam.

Absurd. You need more proof than "4 guys he played made chargebacks on the CC deposits" to permanently lock and confiscate a regular's account and balance. I'm not taking sides, but it could certainly be a coincidence. I'm not sure how games are at that network, but he could've played hundreds of different opponents being a regular there.

If you're not hiding anything, by all means keep on fighting. I've seen several, that at first glance looked like, similar stories, with BOL. I've never followed any of them closesly though, but only skimmed through them. I've seen some speculate that these alleged cheatings/scams/collusions/call it what you will may be more likely to happen to accounts that may not be on places like these where the story might pop up, only speculations though by random posters.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...s-end-1127225/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...e-com-1085317/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...11-4k-1120651/

Just a few, there are more.


Are you aware of what players they accused you of chip dumping with? Playing at your stakes you probably track your own play so you may have those hands, just need to identify which hands it is more specifically, right?


If you're being completely honest, GL going forward.

[mtneer1212]

Absurd. You need more proof than "4 guys he played made chargebacks on the CC deposits" to permanently lock and confiscate a regular's account and balance. I'm not taking sides, but it could certainly be a coincidence. I'm not sure how games are at that network, but he could've played hundreds of different opponents being a regular there.

If you're not hiding anything, by all means keep on fighting. I've seen several, that at first glance looked like, similar stories, with BOL. I've never followed any of them closesly though, but only skimmed through them. I've seen some speculate that these alleged cheatings/scams/collusions/call it what you will may be more likely to happen to accounts that may not be on places like these where the story might pop up, only speculations though by random posters.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...s-end-1127225/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...e-com-1085317/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...11-4k-1120651/

Just a few, there are more.


Are you aware of what players they accused you of chip dumping with? Playing at your stakes you probably track your own play so you may have those hands, just need to identify which hands it is more specifically, right?


If you're being completely honest, GL going forward.

Not absurd. 4 guys all deposit via CC. All sit at the same table. All lose their stacks to our lucky winner. All do a ********** to cancel their deposit. What are the odds that all of this was a coincidence? About 1 out of 50,000. if it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck..... it is a duck.

Now with that said, you are correct that BetOnline is not the most reputable outfit out there. But this does not appear to be the case here.

[mtneer1212]

Again, if these books would stop taking CCs, they would not have this problem. Of course they would also no longer have an excuse not to pay either........

[LoadNukes]

Not absurd. 4 guys all deposit via CC. All sit at the same table. All lose their stacks to our lucky winner. All do a ********** to cancel their deposit. What are the odds that all of this was a coincidence? About 1 out of 50,000. if it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck..... it is a duck.

Now with that said, you are correct that BetOnline is not the most reputable outfit out there. But this does not appear to be the case here.

Thank you for explaining the whole deal with CC. I was going to reply to your earlier post asking you what exactly you mean. I'm not too experienced with CCs. I only have one and that one is from Scrill. And I'm even less experienced in fraud.
Let me expand my story a bit with some relevant info.
I first begun playing on PayNoRake, which is on the same network as BOL, Chico poker network. My screen name there was filko225. Everything was going well, untill the company was taken over by Julian holding ltd. All together I believe 8 skins. Only BOL was left out. After the takeover, PNR practically stopped paying out players. Here is the thread on 2+2 if you're interested: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...norake-727472/
I was left with 25k stuck on PNR.
So I guess, if I was going to chip dump, I woud first try to do it with my BR on PNR. Second, if I wanted to commit any kind of fraud, I surely would not choose BOL. So by organising a criminal scheme, which had to involve minimum 2 persons, I was able to steal 2k and share it with at least one other accomplish. I did it in such a dumb way, I was so anxious to commit fraud, that I had to do it 4 times in 24 hours. Only god knows how many more stolen cards I have! Any by doing so, I risked 25k on BOL, plus 25k on PNR, because it's on the same name and the same network. Plus I was risking all the future profit that I would have surely made on this network. This would have to be one of the most stupid scams of all time.
Here is something an affiliate thats taking care of me for some of the other sites said "its hard to get BOL pay for cheating players if they set it up[17:14:45] xxx: just hope to get the money thats not involved with the 4 players
[17:15:27] xxx: if BOL set it up, all 4 accs and card details are fake
and this makes me worried. I decided not only to contact their licence provider, but also the Panama police. If nobody else, they will have to investigate this.
I am a reg. I play on many sites and never had any kind of problem or investigation against me. Myconscience is clean and with this knowledge I will follow this through.

[LoadNukes]

Absurd. You need more proof than "4 guys he played made chargebacks on the CC deposits" to permanently lock and confiscate a regular's account and balance. I'm not taking sides, but it could certainly be a coincidence. I'm not sure how games are at that network, but he could've played hundreds of different opponents being a regular there.

If you're not hiding anything, by all means keep on fighting. I've seen several, that at first glance looked like, similar stories, with BOL. I've never followed any of them closesly though, but only skimmed through them. I've seen some speculate that these alleged cheatings/scams/collusions/call it what you will may be more likely to happen to accounts that may not be on places like these where the story might pop up, only speculations though by random posters.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...s-end-1127225/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...e-com-1085317/
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...11-4k-1120651/

Just a few, there are more.


Are you aware of what players they accused you of chip dumping with? Playing at your stakes you probably track your own play so you may have those hands, just need to identify which hands it is more specifically, right?


If you're being completely honest, GL going forward.

Yes, I'm aware which ones. You have their screen name in my first post and I have thier acc ids. Unfortunatelly BOL does not support HM and they don't have a history file so I can't get my HHs with these 4.
Also interesting facts. My last withdrawal request was partially approved, just the poker dep was still checking. But CC scam should be noticed by some other dep first?! And in the beginning I got the info that it was 4-5 people who were chip dumping, now they settled for 4. what happened to the 5th?
Thank you for wishing me good luck. I will do all thats in my powers.

[benandjerry]

Not absurd. 4 guys all deposit via CC. All sit at the same table. All lose their stacks to our lucky winner. All do a ********** to cancel their deposit. What are the odds that all of this was a coincidence? About 1 out of 50,000. if it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck..... it is a duck.

Now with that said, you are correct that BetOnline is not the most reputable outfit out there. But this does not appear to be the case here.

Do you have some info I dont or are you just making assumptions? OP stated he (sorry if you're a female and I'm addressing you wrongly, think I read your name somewhere but too lazy to reread all posts) he's mainly playing HU thus only 2 seats so its highly unlikely they all sat at the same table at the same time dumping to OP. If you're a regular, depending on the traffic of the site, you plays hundreds of different guys every month easily.

Logically speaking, I also feel it would be downright dumb to risk a 20k+ balance "stealing" 2k. Again, not taking any sides, but permanently closing an account claiming fraudulent activity without providing any proof for it is unacceptable.

Yes, I'm aware which ones. You have their screen name in my first post and I have thier acc ids. Unfortunatelly BOL does not support HM and they don't have a history file so I can't get my HHs with these 4.
Also interesting facts. My last withdrawal request was partially approved, just the poker dep was still checking. But CC scam should be noticed by some other dep first?! And in the beginning I got the info that it was 4-5 people who were chip dumping, now they settled for 4. what happened to the 5th?
Thank you for wishing me good luck. I will do all thats in my powers.

Unfortunate that you dont have the HH's yourself, but now thats its gone this far it'd be surprising if they would refuse to share them with Lou or Bill, so I'm guessing you'll see them. One thing to keep in mind though, this place is partially sponsored by BOL.

[steve1114]

betonline was good to me for years - then went down hill a little

[mtneer1212]

Logically speaking, I also feel it would be downright dumb to risk a 20k+ balance "stealing" 2k.

You get to 20k+ by stealing 2k at a time. Not illogical at all.

Again, not taking any sides, but permanently closing an account claiming fraudulent activity without providing any proof for it is unacceptable.

Totally agree.

[benandjerry]

You get to 20k+ by stealing 2k at a time. Not illogical at all.

Only as long as you're making assumptions (or have knowledge not available in this thread) that there were more accounts involved in the chipdumping than the 4 mentioned here since that only adds up to 2k. OP's info is the only I have to base my conclusions on, and given the many similar issues that appears to have occured at BOL I personally think its premature to call it a scam, but to each their own.

I may be biased though, having been through a couple of worse situations with poker sites.

[SBR Lou]

Hi guys,

Indeed there were four account holders that signed up, deposited the same amount via CC and lost their funds to LoadNukes in a short period of time. BetOnline tells us that if these players can pass the ID process, their accounts will be cleared. If not, their deposits will be refunded to protect the book from the ********** risk.

LoadNukes has verified her account meanwhile. She'll be debited the approximate 1700 that was lost by the four if their accounts are not verified, but, BetOnline says there is no issue with the rest of her balance.

[HedgeHog]

betonline was good to me for years - then went down hill a little

Just "a little"? Do you think of the Grand Canyon as just a small hole?

[KEdge2k]

Wait, so BOL wants people who deposited and lost to verify their accounts? What benefit is it to them to cooperate in any way?

[SBR Lou]

Wait, so BOL wants people who deposited and lost to verify their accounts? What benefit is it to them to cooperate in any way?

BetOnline is trying to protect its business. The pattern was highly suspicious and consistent with play before a transaction dispute, which the house has to eat and can lead to loss of processors. If those players choose not to comply, they'll be refunded their deposits.

[LoadNukes]

Hi guys,

Indeed there were four account holders that signed up, deposited the same amount via CC and lost their funds to LoadNukes in a short period of time. BetOnline tells us that if these players can pass the ID process, their accounts will be cleared. If not, their deposits will be refunded to protect the book from the ********** risk.

LoadNukes has verified her account meanwhile. She'll be debited the approximate 1700 that was lost by the four if their accounts are not verified, but, BetOnline says there is no issue with the rest of her balance.

Hi Lou,
What exactly does this mean? If I understand correctly my BOL account is going to be unlocked and my funds available to me. The 24700 usd I have on the account will be debited aproximately 1700 unless these 4 people verify their accounts. When can I expect my account to be reopened?
thank you in advance