[BranchDavidian]

i dont know everything, my friend... but you dont seem to understand that the forums only get the disputes where the player thinks they are right... you dont see all the bs the books go through from guys trying their best to scam them...you only see when a player is unhappy with something.

im not going to pay (more than i already have) a player who has run up a balance with funds that werent his to gamble with and he received through mistake...but i do think tony has to do something about how pitiful his staff is...sure, the blame rests on their shoulders, but keep paying for my staffs mistake after it is found? nah, not going to happen...

Any business owner is responsible for for the acts and promises of his agents ( reps are agents ).

[BranchDavidian]

so you pity the u.s. players because this one instance where, morally, the player is completely wrong for taking a wrong payout and running up a balance with money that didnt belong to him??? i understand books getting a bad reputation for telling players its their way or the highway, but rules or no rules, you cant sit there and tell me that because of human error, this guy deserves to get paid in full for a balance he ran up with money that didnt belong to him...

im not going to waste my time looking over all their rules today, but there must be something somewhere that will contradict the rule of them paying the other bets out...may be something raiders can do if he has time today.

You deep saying that this money did not belong to him. Repeating an error over and over does not make it true. He placed bets that won --- according to 5dimes rules, that money is the OP's.

[raiders72001]

so you pity the u.s. players because this one instance where, morally, the player is completely wrong for taking a wrong payout and running up a balance with money that didnt belong to him??? i understand books getting a bad reputation for telling players its their way or the highway, but rules or no rules, you cant sit there and tell me that because of human error, this guy deserves to get paid in full for a balance he ran up with money that didnt belong to him...

im not going to waste my time looking over all their rules today, but there must be something somewhere that will contradict the rule of them paying the other bets out...may be something raiders can do if he has time today.

You're 100% right. The rules say that 5Dimes can reverse the application of funds.

5Dimes reserves the right to reverse the incorrect application of funds into an account due to human or system/software error.

Funds that were not intended to be credited into a customer's account will be reverted upon discovery of the inaccuracy.

[BranchDavidian]

You're 100% right. The rules say that 5Dimes can reverse the application of funds.

How many times does it have to be explained that the only incorrect application of funds was the overpayment on the teaser --- the following bets were applied correctly.

[raydog]

You're kidding right? If the above situation happened Tony would jam this guy for the $3900 and threaten him daily. So you think calling to make sure the price was correct would absolve Dan from owing money in the above example? If thats the case then it should also add credibility to his claim that 5Dimes take responsibility for the matter at hand.

tony is pissed he is 11k out of pocket...yeah, he would still be pissed at the guy, but nowhere near as much and would probably just close the guys acct. for him being a shot taker...but who knows. tony can definitely fly off the handle... insults and threats are nothing new, but nothing has ever come from them, afaik...

[raiders72001]

Branch- it's open to interpretation. He applied money that wasn't his to make future bets. That is an incorrect application.

[Dan bouton]

I believe that refers to a mistake being made when applying funds to an acct not mis grades or bad pay tables wich is covered in a completely separate rule we are all familiar with. This is if u deposit 200 and get credit for 2000 they then can reverse those funds among other situations. I really don't think that rule covers this situation or even relates to it what so ever. U can't make rules to counter other rules and say I'm gonna go by this rule and not that one.( Rules are used and changed under my discression on a case to case basis where I see fit. They always must be in my favor and not the players!) I don't think so!

[raiders72001]

I believe that refers to a mistake being made when applying funds to an acct not mis grades or bad pay tables wich is covered in a completely separate rule we are all familiar with. This is if u deposit 200 and get credit for 2000 they then can reverse those funds among other situations. I really don't think that rule covers this situation or even relates to it what so ever. U can't make rules to counter other rules and say I'm gonna go by this rule and not that one.( Rules are used and changed under my discression on a case to case basis where I see fit. They always must be in my favor and not the players!) I don't think so!

A rule or law doesn't have to always be in favor of one party. When a rule is open to interpretation, common sense is used.

[cutter2225]

Its obvious why Dan keeps replying, it directly involves/affects him but what do you stand to gain Raiders? You act as if you have as much invested in this situation as Dan when in reality it has zero impact on you. Unless of course the earlier comments about you brown nosing SBR for a mod position is true. I will admit you sound a lot like Lou the Liar so you're on the right track.

[raiders72001]

Its obvious why Dan keeps replying, it directly involves/affects him but what do you stand to gain Raiders? You act as if you have as much invested in this situation as Dan when in reality it has zero impact on you. Unless of course the earlier comments about you brown nosing SBR for a mod position is true. I will admit you sound a lot like Lou the Liar so you're on the right track.

There are many many people that keep posting in favor of Dan. What do they have to gain? Are they getting a cut? Most of the time when someone goes that route, it means that they lost the argument. It's similar to pulling out the race card. You just pulled it.

[Nietzsche]

Hello Dan,

I want to give you my opinion about your case, although I have read only half the posts and I may be just repeating what someone else said (apologies) . It is a controversial case, as 12 pages of posts can confirm.

You got paid 3900$ instead of 39$ and you were able to free roll the bookie. You got lucky and made 44K with no risk to your money (it was their money). That looks like an argument straightforward in favour of 5Dimes. No wonder they want their money back.

However you did contacted their CS twice after that controversial bet and they confirmed that your winnings were correct. This is even a bigger argument in your favour.

The general rule (it has happened to me) is that your first bet (wrong odds) will be resettled at right odds when the error is found out (sometimes you find out your account has gone into a negative balance after a reevaluation of a bet) but any bets made afterwards (regardless if you were using money from your own deposits or the money that was incorrectly awarded to you) should remain unaffected (as Justin said)
In fact they have no way to prove you were not going to deposit money to cover your future bets.

Another argument against you is if you were a new customer and you went straight into these wrong lines. Specially if they had many people going after the same error.

If I was a judge and I was using common sense (as I don't know the legality in a case like this) I would rule in your favour just because you contacted 5Dimes CS twice and you have proof of it. I would rule that the first bet must be resettled at correct odds and subsequent bets remain unaffected.

But the bottom line here is not who is right or wrong here. The reality of it is that it is a very large sum of money that you won out of a free roll and they are not happy about it (Tony is not sleeping that well). If you had won just lets say 5k (final balance) you would have found out a totally different response from 5Dimes. They would have behaved like gentlemen and would have told you something like this:
Dear customer, we congratulate you in your winnings, but we wish you to inform that your first bet was graded incorrectly and has been resettled at the correct odds. As accordingly to our T&C all other bets are unaffected, so your current balance is 1139$. (5000-3900+39) In 5Dimes we pride ourselves in our fairplay and we value our customers satisfaction above all. Please accept our most sincere apologies for the inconvenience.

But any gentleman will become a gangster if the prize is right, and it looks like you found out that Tony's prize is not that high. It is their own fukk up and he should be going after his CS, not after you.

Don't waste your time in here. Its a difficult case and it is a sponsoring bookie. I don't think they can do much for you in this case. Tony obviously wants to hold on to his 44K and he is not going to take the advice of an organization that is not law enforcing. He is going to twist the story into every angle so he won't pay you.

The only hope you have is legal action against 5Dimes, unless you are from a country like USA (didnt read all the posts so I don't know where are you from) where gambling is illegal, in which case there is nothing you can do but say goodbye to that money. (although I think you should keep the 11k you withdrew, fukk Tony, let him learn his lesson)

[raiders72001]

As an example of how tough it is for 5Dimes not to make mistakes, they have over 200 prop bets on the Den/Oak game today.

[Dan bouton]

Nietzsche
thanks for ur take on things. I agree and feel pretty much the same except I still would like sbr to rule that way or at least put the case in Justin's hands for a full investigation and disclosure of the case as this is important to many others who took their time to review my dispute. This is regardless of what tony would do if they ruled against him. Right now that's not important or an issue because it has not gotten to that stage yet. I just want the step by step process followed regardless of who's relationship this may hurt. I am from the united states and this is the reason I am still pursuing this outlet. This is my best possibility of getting some sort of justice and clearing my name. Also I did not start an acct and target this bet. These bets were mixed in here and there amongst 8-900 other bets but this shouldn't affect ur stance anyways.

Raiders
this being the case with props, maybe they should lighten their load to be more efficient! Would u rather bet with a book who offers 20 correct props or a book that has 200, and if they made a mistake and u bet on it, verify it and win they come after all ur funds 2 months later?? Sounds ridiculous don't it! They take these chances to draw in more customers and ultimately make more money! When they screw up its their fault and they should be held accountable.

[HedgeHog]

Branch- it's open to interpretation. He applied money that wasn't his to make future bets. That is an incorrect application.

Your dad not using a rubber was an "incorrect application".

[raydog]

..hh

nietz, nice post...if this were a borderline bad line or close, i would agree 100% ... something like this, where a guy plays pleasers and knows the odds, willingly takes advantage of the book mistake and willingly accepts withdrawals on something that he knows is 100% wrong, i have no problem at all with tony telling him he has seen his last cent and has made his last bet with them... rule or no rule, you fukk over an offshore book, you arent going to like the final outcome...

[rumnblack]

..hh

nietz, nice post...if this were a borderline bad line or close, i would agree 100% ... something like this, where a guy plays pleasers and knows the odds, willingly takes advantage of the book mistake and willingly accepts withdrawals on something that he knows is 100% wrong, i have no problem at all with tony telling him he has seen his last cent and has made his last bet with them... rule or no rule, you fukk over an offshore book, you arent going to like the final outcome...

But the problem is, it's not your opinion we want 1000 times. This has gone beyond who was right or not and is now about why SBR won't even address it. Maybe they decided to use you as a diversionary tactic and send you in here so you could send everyone to sleep with the repetitive nature of your 'impartial views. 'Yes Tony, No Tony, three bags full Tony.

Enjoy your freeplay.

[Scooter]

im not going to waste my time looking over all their rules today, but there must be something somewhere that will contradict the rule of them paying the other bets out...

No, why should you "waste your time" fact checking, when you can instead make your five thousandth one hundred ninety third post and repeat the same ignorant opinion for the hundredth time in this thread?

raydog - "only 5dimes can answer the question...the rest of us would only be guessing... my guess would be that since he called to make sure the price was correct, 5dimes would have simply set his balance back at 0 and eaten the 3900 bet that he lost instead of giving him a (-) balance because of their own mistake..."

Even someone as moronically biased as yourself can't believe this b.s.

Is 5 Dimes crediting all losses to people who played pleasers there, because the odds were incorrect?
You and I and everyone else knows the answer to this.

Congrats - You have managed to be as pathetic as forum laughingstock raiders.

[raiders72001]

raydog- Are you rayray at OGD?

[raydog]

No, why should you "waste your time" fact checking, when you can instead make your five thousandth one hundred ninety third post and repeat the same ignorant opinion for the hundredth time in this thread?

raydog - "only 5dimes can answer the question...the rest of us would only be guessing... my guess would be that since he called to make sure the price was correct, 5dimes would have simply set his balance back at 0 and eaten the 3900 bet that he lost instead of giving him a (-) balance because of their own mistake..."

Even someone as moronically biased as yourself can't believe this b.s.

Is 5 Dimes crediting all losses to people who played pleasers there, because the odds were incorrect?
You and I and everyone else knows the answer to this.

Congrats - You have managed to be as pathetic as forum laughingstock raiders.

no, i explained earlier, when you take a shot at the book and get caught, unless they come out and say all the bets are voided, you typically will not get money back...and thats the way it should be....you cant take a shot and expect there to be no recoil... you lose, you lost...shot takers arent welcome..you take more than a few shots at the book with bad lines and you get tossed... i keep repeating myself in hopes of you clowns understanding why things are happening the way they are... when all else fails, listen to those who are experienced with this stuff...thanks

oh wait, am i a laughing stock because i have completely explained everything to you guys correctly and with done it while looking at all the aspects? unreal

raiders, yes....how on earth did it take you this long to figure it out

[sharpcircle]

re:5dimes going against their own rules

The rules only matter when they work in favor or the book.

[HedgeHog]

OP could've easily gone on the same run w/o the $3900 misgrade of a sole bet. His CC deposits show that he had the means to continue playing had he zero'd out. This notion that the legit 40k in winnings that followed could only occur with the $3900 headstart he had is absurd. 5D has every right to recover the misgraded wager (per their rules), but holding legit additional winnings hostage is THEFT, one which SBR is complicit in by its approval.

So now 5D has set a precedent of voiding legit wagers two months after the occurrence of a single pricing error. What's to stop then from going two years out or even longer? I don't think I could even survive this type of audit with all the +EV golf and nascar bets I've made at 5D. The door is now open for them to do massive theft in this manner on a scale not seen since the 2007 Sportsbook.com muggings. Terrible decision on SBR's part to endorse selective theft by a sponsor Book.

[raydog]

there is no way to know if the guy would have even deposited more...and you can be guaranteed he doesnt make the same plays with his own money as he did with free money... everything up for speculation... im not a fan of either side taking ugly shots and it really amazes me that 5dimes let this mistake even happen...they offer so much more than most books and its only logical that they have a few more bad numbers arise...but one that is there for years ... here are a lot of books that have their ass covered with rules so that they dont get taken advantage of, i really would have thought 5d would too...a mistake like this could literally break books...tony has got to get some new blood in there

you have a guy who knowingly took money that wasnt his and some of you guys are backing him because he was given wrong information and in your bitter minds, thats okay...let the shot taking begin... you think its okay for him to keep getting away with accepting withdrawals, knowing good and well he obtained that money through nothing more than their mistake and his fraud???

sick of clowns who think its okay to fukk over the book at every chance, simply because they never win and they feel they are somehow owed something... its ugly

[BranchDavidian]

there is no way to know if the guy would have even deposited more...and you can be guaranteed he doesnt make the same plays with his own money as he did with free money... everything up for speculation... im not a fan of either side taking ugly shots and it really amazes me that 5dimes let this mistake even happen...they offer so much more than most books and its only logical that they have a few more bad numbers arise...but one that is there for years ... here are a lot of books that have their ass covered with rules so that they dont get taken advantage of, i really would have thought 5d would too...a mistake like this could literally break books...tony has got to get some new blood in there

you have a guy who knowingly took money that wasnt his and some of you guys are backing him because he was given wrong information and in your bitter minds, thats okay...let the shot taking begin... you think its okay for him to keep getting away with accepting withdrawals, knowing good and well he obtained that money through nothing more than their mistake and his fraud???

sick of clowns who think its okay to fukk over the book at every chance, simply because they never win and they feel they are somehow owed something... its ugly

5dimes is not getting fukked over here, once they recoup the overpayment on the teaser. The money won by the OP on his straight bets after the teaser is paid by the bettors that lost to 5dimes when they were on the opposite side of the game as the OP.

[Optional]

My bad. Typically when someone posts ... it means end the thread . I read more into than I should've, I apologize.

Oh I apologize too then. I always use that when i delete a post as you need 3 characters. I never realized it meant anything. In fact I'm pretty sure a couple of other people I know use it the way I do too.

[raydog]

5dimes is not getting fukked over here, once they recoup the overpayment on the teaser. The money won by the OP on his straight bets after the teaser is paid by the bettors that lost to 5dimes when they were on the opposite side of the game as the OP.

okay, ill rephrase...tired of guys TRYING to fukk over books every chance they get (although 5d is out 11k and that cant be disputed)...blame scamming bettors as much as the govt. for fukking up offshore and making it brutally difficult to get withdrawals in a timely manner and without jumping through hoops

[cutter2225]

there is no way to know if the guy would have even deposited more...and you can be guaranteed he doesnt make the same plays with his own money as he did with free money... everything up for speculation... im not a fan of either side taking ugly shots and it really amazes me that 5dimes let this mistake even happen...they offer so much more than most books and its only logical that they have a few more bad numbers arise...but one that is there for years ... here are a lot of books that have their ass covered with rules so that they dont get taken advantage of, i really would have thought 5d would too...a mistake like this could literally break books...tony has got to get some new blood in there

you have a guy who knowingly took money that wasnt his and some of you guys are backing him because he was given wrong information and in your bitter minds, thats okay...let the shot taking begin... you think its okay for him to keep getting away with accepting withdrawals, knowing good and well he obtained that money through nothing more than their mistake and his fraud???

sick of clowns who think its okay to fukk over the book at every chance, simply because they never win and they feel they are somehow owed something... its ugly

Theres no way to know he wouldn't have.

How can you possibly guarantee this.

Exactly and thats why there are no guarantees.

In your own words 5 Dimes let this happen, for years! If they can't handle offering so much more then other books maybe its time to scale back because this is no excuse for allowing errors like this to happen.

Seems you're admitting their rules were flawed. Yet that shouldn't matter?

Exactly and even though it was Dan that made the wager, 2 of Tonys associates had the opportunity to veto it.

Those 2 statements can't be used together by anyone with common sense. Its been pointed out time and again in this thread that 5 Dimes had a pay chart that they created not Dan. Its impossible to commit fraud against a company by simply accepting terms they created especially when you add to that he called and got verification the wager was good to do.

Why do you feel the need to insult people simply because they have a differing opinion then you? I can assure you once I learned how to properly wager on sports I win far more then I lose and as such I don't feel i'm owed anything form books. My opinions are always based on the facts as I see them and it differs from case to case.

[BranchDavidian]

okay, ill rephrase...tired of guys TRYING to fukk over books every chance they get (although 5d is out 11k and that cant be disputed)...blame scamming bettors as much as the govt. for fukking up offshore and making it brutally difficult to get withdrawals in a timely manner and without jumping through hoops

I just disputed that in what you quoted, raydog! That $11,000 is money that 5dimes collected from losing bettors to pay the OP for straight bets that he WON. If 5dimes gets to keep the rest of the $44,000 -- they will end up benefiting from the $44,000 lost by other customers to 5dimes. You read, but do not comprehend.

[BranchDavidian]

okay, ill rephrase...tired of guys TRYING to fukk over books every chance they get (although 5d is out 11k and that cant be disputed)...blame scamming bettors as much as the govt. for fukking up offshore and making it brutally difficult to get withdrawals in a timely manner and without jumping through hoops

Going a little off topic here, but what do scamming players have to do with the UEIGA? If you are referring to the OP as a "scamming player", lol. The guy calls twice to make sure the payout is correct, gets the ok from two supervisors, then leaves a bunch of money in his account for two months while making many more plays. You think this guy was scamming, huh?

[Scooter]

raydog cannot form a coherent argument, so he throws in all including the kitchen sink:

The guy is a scammer.
He knows the guy wouldn't have redeposited (raydog has psychic powers).
It's the fault of the USA government.
It's the fault of UIGEA.
Five Dimes offers so many betting options.

raydog - You are an idiot. You babble senselessly. You have put up over 1,000 posts/year since joining here, yet your opinion is worthless.

5dimes own rules clearly state what is to be done in this situation:
Correct the mispriced wager.
The other bets stand.

To selectively ignore rules is scamming.
You are the only scammer here.

[HedgeHog]

I've needed to replenish my account at supposedly A+ 5-Dimes for nearly two weeks. I'm holding off until I can get a better grasp of the implications of this case. Does 5D now have SBR's blessing to steal profits months later if they find one bad bet in a client's history? For now, I'll get by with Heritage, DSI and BI but I hate potentially losing 5D as an out. I just don't trust the crooked azzhole running the place. I used to find his antics humorous, but it's no longer funny when he starts confiscating winnings from LEGIT BETS.

[BranchDavidian]

I am still wondering why SBR has had nothing to say about this thread, nor bitsorin's question, nor Adrianna1977's thread. Complaints get filed, with no response from SBR for weeks. Incorrect data gets pointed out, SBR doesn't care. ????????????????????????

[Scooter]

raydog - "i keep repeating myself in hopes of you clowns understanding why things are happening the way they are... when all else fails, listen to those who are experienced with this stuff...thanks"

raydog - What book do you work at, and what is your position?

[HedgeHog]

raydog - What book do you work at, and what is your position?

Likely Betonline and bent over his desk.

[Scooter]

"...what is your position?"

I was thinking "ass backwards".

[raiders72001]

Great stuff out of Scooter and Hedghog. Juvenile jokes that were funny in 8th grade. When that doesn't work claim alliance with SBR or the books. It's fortunate that most posters are more mature.