[benandjerry]

John, is it safe to assume SBR will at least discuss 5d's need to rephrase their terms?

In the event an account reaches a negative balance due to the re-grade of an event, all in-progress pending wagers will stand and be honored. Since winning wagers in this instance will be honored, immediate settlement of losing wagers is also expected.
Customers are responsible for settling all negative accounts. "Ignorance", "I wouldn't have made that last bet if I knew my balance would have been negative", or "It's not my fault the wager was graded wrong", will not be accepted as excuses for non-settlement of negative balances.

That quote, and especially the latter quotes within that quote seem to indicate ("I wouldnt have made that...", "Its not my fault...." etc), that had the player in this case lost the 3k, he'd be required to pay that back. Now thats downright false, as per your ruling, and its somewhat troubling if their terms arent presented in a correct manner.

One could get the impression they'd ask for the lost money had the roles been reversed, just saying...

[HedgeHog]

That seems in line with what just about everyone (everyone?) but Bill and Lou have been posting John.

But only 5D have enough information to make the correct decision.

He ended up with a balance about 3 times more than his inital deposit. So I'd be thinking about 1/3 of the gross is the minimum he deserves. And that's if you completely ignore that he tried to tell 5D about the problem twice, and made 800+ bets afterward.

There's at least an argument to be made he deserves all but the 3k overpayment too I think.

There's a very good argument for this IMO, but Dan never got a fair shot at making his case. The one Mod that hinted at this same argument, the same one that SBR uses to expose corrupt sportsbooks, is quickly silenced. Instead the case is handed to a puppet mod who uses conspiracy/syndicate innuendo and irrelevant Walmart analogies to justify confiscation of funds MONTHS after a single bad wager.

5-Slimes refuses to follow it's own bad bet rule, and instead of making a 3k correction opts to steal his remaining 30k balance. Further, 5D is the only party that has access to the player's betting records of his LOCKED account, but refuse to release them for this sham of an "investigation". When other books refuse to do this (i.e. EZ Street), SBR has rightly found for the player. Not here though as SPONSOR 5D gets their theft approved by what used to be the industry's #1 watchdog site.

Whether posters agree with the outcome or not, I can't see how anyone can support the PROCESS that took place here. Instead of providing evidence to support their decision for 5D, the Mods quickly rubberstamped the theft and promptly abandoned the thread. PATHETIC.

[SBR_John]

That seems in line with what just about everyone (everyone?) but Bill and Lou have been posting John.

But only 5D have enough information to make the correct decision.

He ended up with a balance about 3 times more than his inital deposit. So I'd be thinking about 1/3 of the gross is the minimum he deserves. And that's if you completely ignore that he tried to tell 5D about the problem twice, and made 800+ bets afterward.

There's at least an argument to be made he deserves all but the 3k overpayment too I think.

As poorly as it reflects on the book I would suggest ignoring the parts of the case that are not material ie, told the clerk, argued with the GM, placed 800 bests, ect.

Also I do not think the amount of his initial deposit is material either. The critical numbers and math for me are;
What was his balance the moment the overpayment was made?
Subtract out what would have been his correct balance.
Then examine his next bets to see if he was betting with a)his money b) the books overpayment money

[HedgeHog]

As poorly as it reflects on the book I would suggest ignoring the parts of the case that are not material ie, told the clerk, argued with the GM, placed 800 bests, ect.

Also I do not think the amount of his initial deposit is material either. The critical numbers and math for me are;
What was his balance the moment the overpayment was made?
Subtract out what would have been his correct balance.
Then examine his next bets to see if he was betting with a)his money b) the books overpayment money

I appreciate that you responded to this thread, but have to disagree. His prior deposits are material in that it shows his willingness to re-up each time he went bust. There is little doubt that the OP would have re-upped again had this pleaser lost or was properly paid out. So I don't see how his later bets should be affected by one misgrade, especially when 5D has a precise rule for this very situation. The entire "windfall" from the mistake is 3 or 4 grand, hardly significant. 5D is entitled to that back only, not all the profit he would ever make thereafter. To do so gives 5D a perpetual freeroll on Dan or anyone else that ever made a bad bet at this Book.

At least when sponsor Betonline (B+) gets caught stealing, which is often, SBR will always get them to do the right thing. Apparently you don't have the same pull with A+ rated 5D. Tony gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar and SBR pours him a glass of milk.

[benandjerry]

As poorly as it reflects on the book I would suggest ignoring the parts of the case that are not material ie, told the clerk, argued with the GM, placed 800 bests, ect.

Also I do not think the amount of his initial deposit is material either. The critical numbers and math for me are;
What was his balance the moment the overpayment was made?
Subtract out what would have been his correct balance.
Then examine his next bets to see if he was betting with a)his money b) the books overpayment money

I think I read somewhere he was max depositing every day to build his balance up until the point where he had a "sufficient" (guessing this was at the point of the wrongly graded bet, or at least not before) at which point 5D support staff more or less told him to stop. Is this correct Dan?

Anyway, if thats correct, wouldnt it affect the investigation according to the way you describe how you'd look at this issue? I mean, can you without doubt even proof that his intentions were never to place those wagers?

Oops, beaten to it by HH...

[Dan bouton]

Ben

Yes that's correct. I just opened the acct and was only allowed to deposit so much money per 24 hr periods. I put in 900 total and quickly lost most of it. I had a few pending wagers, this wager in question being one of them. I then called 5d to see if the payouts were correct if I were to win them, or if this was a mistake. ( i questioned the paytable myself thats why i called)I was told they were correct so I waited for the pending wagers to play out prior to making another deposit because I really had nothing to bet on until the next week anyways. The wager in question then hit and I was credited with the 3990 plus I had about 100$ in my acct. I then built up my balance with those funds week to week all the while making widrawls.

[HedgeHog]

Ben

Yes that's correct. I just opened the acct and was only allowed to deposit so much money per 24 hr periods. I put in 900 total and quickly lost most of it. I had a few pending wagers, this wager in question being one of them. I then called 5d to see if the payouts were correct if I were to win them, or if this was a mistake. ( i questioned the paytable myself thats why i called)I was told they were correct so I waited for the pending wagers to play out prior to making another deposit because I really had nothing to bet on until the next week anyways. The wager in question then hit and I was credited with the 3990 plus I had about 100$ in my acct. I then built up my balance with those funds week to week all the while making widrawls.

You got hosed, first by 5D then by SBR. In my 5 years here, I've never seen anything close to the whitewash job you got. I don't know where you go from here, but it looks like you hit a deadend at this site. Money changes everything, and the decision against you was bought and paid for w/o question.

[Dan bouton]

I appreciate your help hedge and I relize that I have no chance here dealing with these guys. I think this opened the eyes of many sbr followers as to how they operate. I wish the best to justin7 as I feel he does not belong here at sbr. He can do people justice if not held back by those above him. He has been fair to me and others that I have seen, although he was held off my case he always responded to me. I also think people see how tiny at 5dimes operates as well. I just filed my case with osga and they seem to already think this is a cut and dry case and tony owes me the money. However they want me to give them a few days to talk with tony and view the facts. After that I will continue pursuing this through other means and keep everyone posted. I do encourage everybody to continue pointing out the flaws in this system and demanding answers as to why and how things got this way. Again I thank everyone who was for and against me for their time and input. Thank you and good luck to all of u!

[SBR_John]

I appreciate your help hedge and I relize that I have no chance here dealing with these guys. I think this opened the eyes of many sbr followers as to how they operate. I wish the best to justin7 as I feel he does not belong here at sbr. I also think people see how tiny at 5dimes operates as well. I just filed my case with osga and they seem to already think this is a cut and dry case and tony owes me the money. However they want me to give them a few days to talk with tony and view the facts. After that I will continue pursuing this through other means and keep everyone posted. I do encourage everybody to continue pointing out the flaws in this system and demanding answers as to why and how things got this way. Again I thank everyone who was for and against me for their time and input. Thank you and good luck to all of u!

Actually Dan this goes on every week. I think HH said 5 years ago the same thing. We settle disputes fairly based on the facts to the best of our ability.

I did not see any new facts since my last post. Ben brought up the subject again of prior deposits and how they are material. I'm trying to understand his points but just can not reconcile their correlation.

As far as the book free rolling or potentially free rolling due to their mistake, could be possible in a similar hypothetical but certainly not the case here. Not sure how a book over pays someone and it ends up being a free roll when the player is using the sportsbooks money in the first place.

Good luck with your pursuit of a more favorable decision and outcome. The only idea I would have is to ask 5Dimes if they would agree to binding arbitration by a licensed arbitrator of your choosing, located in a country where online gaming is legal who would also agree to hold all money in escrow until he/she makes a final ruling. That way you could at least receive a ruling free of any bias that you perceive exists.

[HedgeHog]

Actually Dan this goes on every week. I think HH said 5 years ago the same thing. We settle disputes fairly based on the facts to the best of our ability.

I did not see any new facts since my last post. Ben brought up the subject again of prior deposits and how they are material. I'm trying to understand his points but just can not reconcile their correlation.

As far as the book free rolling or potentially free rolling due to their mistake, could be possible in a similar hypothetical but certainly not the case here. Not sure how a book over pays someone and it ends up being a free roll when the player is using the sportsbooks money in the first place.

Good luck with your pursuit of a more favorable decision and outcome. The only idea I would have is to ask 5Dimes if they would agree to binding arbitration by a licensed arbitrator of your choosing, located in a country where online gaming is legal who would also agree to hold all money in escrow until he/she makes a final ruling. That way you could at least receive a ruling free of any bias that you perceive exists.

Need a little clarification. What goes on every week....sponsors stealing and SBR giving its blessing? For the record, I joined 5 years ago after the Sportsbook.com massive theft. SBR lost that battle, but at least you fought for the player back then and I appreciated it. Far different than today obviously as your monthly ad check means more than the actual facts in a legit dispute. But you keep grasping at straws to justify this theft; whatever lets you sleep at night, John.

PS Nobody buys the BS that you're not familiar with the facts of this case (post #559). The only fact you care about is that 5D sends you a check every month and it buys your supposed ignorance.

[raiders72001]

SBRJohn

The only idea I would have is to ask 5Dimes if they would agree to binding arbitration by a licensed arbitrator of your choosing, located in a country where online gaming is legal who would also agree to hold all money in escrow until he/she makes a final ruling. That way you could at least receive a ruling free of any bias that you perceive exists.

[HedgeHog]

You got a little SBR jizz on your face, Raiders.

[SBR_John]

HH, it's hard to imagine how you could agree that Ez should rip off a player for $46k for not breaking any rules but suddenly you are all for the player when he was paid on a bad line. The common thread is you simply oppose every SBR decision. I don't mind you opposing every SBR decision but have substance. "Jizz on your face"juvenille type of stuff is going to get you moderated. Thanks.

[SlickRick1382]

Jizz on your face can get you moderated?

I've seen a lot worse ...

[raiders72001]

You got a little SBR jizz on your face, Raiders.

Yawn- Now you know why so few people respond to you. You say the same things in every post.

[HedgeHog]

HH, it's hard to imagine how you could agree that Ez should rip off a player for $46k for not breaking any rules but suddenly you are all for the player when he was paid on a bad line. The common thread is you simply oppose every SBR decision. I don't mind you opposing every SBR decision but have substance. "Jizz on your face"juvenille type of stuff is going to get you moderated. Thanks.

I never agreed with the EZ decision, but I disagreed with the platform you gave a known scamster. Perhaps you need to catch up with the facts of that case too. As far as Raiders, yes it was a low blow but you should just make it official he works for you. Lately he's defending every SBR thread involving a sponsor. By the way, I recently agreed with the Heritage decision 100% (re-read that thread as well) so I obviously don't oppose "every" SBR decision--just the ones that are blatant theft.

Said my peace, no need to "moderate" (censor). Have a good night.

[raiders72001]

I never agreed with the EZ decision, but I disagreed with the platform you gave a known scamster. Perhaps you need to catch up with the facts of that case too. As far as Raiders, yes it was a low blow but you should just make it official he works for you. Lately he's defending every SBR thread involving a sponsor. By the way, I recently agreed with the Heritage decision 100% (re-read that thread as well) so I obviously don't oppose "every" SBR decision--just the ones that are blatant theft.

Said my peace, no need to "moderate" (censor). Have a good night.

Yawn- I don't want or need a job at SBR. It does look as though you were turned down for a job at SBR since you turned on them and did a 180 from years ago. You said your peace. lol over/under 5 minutes until you say the same things again.

[raiders72001]

Dan- Why don't you use an arbitrator of your choice if 5Dimes agrees?

[Dan bouton]

I have no idea what that is, an arbitrator of my choice? Do u have examples of some of these arbitrators? I'm new to all aspects of this online stuff not just sports betting!

John if Lou is trying to be fair with his decision, why does he refuse to elaborate on this or personally contact me?
Also why will sbr not report or release documentation that I feel would definitely help my case. Things such as my telephone transcript with 5 dimes and my entire wager history. Sbr can surely get these documents and if not that shows 5 dimes is trying to hide important info on the case. I would like to personally speak to u just to hear your reasoning as to what should have happened. I never got that common courtesy from anyone at sbr and if I did I could have probobly put this behind me by now.

I don't know, maybe I've been convinced by the supporters I had that I did nothing wrong and that sbr is a biased arbitrator, but sbr has yet to convince me otherwise. I don't know why this was handled the way it was and how I was perceived so negatively in Lou's eyes from the gate. He never had one good thing to say about me when he spoke on this thread and never backed up anything he said. I'm convinced sbr could of handled this more professionally and treated me with a little more compassion rather then assume I was some kind of thief! I truly felt like I did nothing wrong here and was seriously concerned for my families well being!

[Optional]

It's no wonder mods ignore threads when the moment John makes any constructive comment y'all start poking sticks up his ass.

[Optional]

I have no idea what that is, an arbitrator of my choice? Do u have examples of some of these arbitrators? I'm new to all aspects of this online stuff not just sports betting!

You deposit in nice chunks, make a lot of bets and win a lot for a total newb!

http://www.ibas-uk.com/ is the best known arbitration service. But you can just google licensed arbiter or arbitrator +gambling and you should come up with a host of them in different countries.

[Santo]

His prior deposits are material in that it shows his willingness to re-up each time he went bust. There is little doubt that the OP would have re-upped again had this pleaser lost or was properly paid out.

I'm not sure this is proven. If the player deposited to take advantage of this promotion (which was being debated a while ago), then would he have made all these straight bets / whatever else had he lost? Not proven. If he had made them, would he have made them at 5Dimes (given his was a new account, and presumably previously bet elsewhere), also not proven..

Now I do agree that SBR has failed to justify it's position by publicly obtaining documents (especially problematic in the light of the Cory case where failure to do so lost the case), but we just don't know what they have obtained / reviewed in private in terms of the bet log in particular.

[Santo]

You deposit in nice chunks, make a lot of bets and win a lot for a total newb!

http://www.ibas-uk.com/ is the best known arbitration service. But you can just google licensed arbiter or arbitrator +gambling and you should come up with a host of them in different countries.

I don't think IBAS take commercial cases or cases with non IBAS-registered books, but if you read the Cory/Easystreet thread a number of arbitrators were discussed there.

[ProlinePlayer]

Then examine his next bets to see if he was betting with a)his money b) the books overpayment money

Once the payment reaches his account Dan has 2 options.
He can withdraw the funds.
Or he can continue to play with the money.

The simple fact that he had the option of receiving the cash but chose to play instead makes it playing with his money.
It is silly to speculate on whether or not he would have made these bets had the error not occurred. The funds were in his account and he made some plays.

On so many levels this whole thread is pointless. That 5 Dimes owes the money is clear.
You guys at SBR should be ashamed for approving this blatant theft.

PLP

[CollegePro]

looks like Jusin, bill and sbr John came here to chime in.. why not in betislands thread???

[HedgeHog]

Dan- Why don't you use an arbitrator of your choice if 5Dimes agrees?

If he got the arbitrator of his choice at SBR, there would be no need to go elsewhere. Justin7 had a clear concept of what was required in this case, and SBR shut him up.

[benandjerry]

I did not see any new facts since my last post. Ben brought up the subject again of prior deposits and how they are material. I'm trying to understand his points but just can not reconcile their correlation.

As far as the book free rolling or potentially free rolling due to their mistake, could be possible in a similar hypothetical but certainly not the case here. Not sure how a book over pays someone and it ends up being a free roll when the player is using the sportsbooks money in the first place.

Good luck with your pursuit of a more favorable decision and outcome. The only idea I would have is to ask 5Dimes if they would agree to binding arbitration by a licensed arbitrator of your choosing, located in a country where online gaming is legal who would also agree to hold all money in escrow until he/she makes a final ruling. That way you could at least receive a ruling free of any bias that you perceive exists.

Sorry, english is not my native language, will try to explain what I meant.

I'm not 100% sure about all of these things since it was some time since I read through the threads, Dan may correct me if I'm wrong.

Dan was making max deposits every day ($250 was the limit I believe for the method of his choice, CC) to build a balance sufficient to cover his weekly bets. At one point I believe 5d's support staff told him to stop because his balance was enough to cover his weekly action, I assume due to the problematic nature of moving funds in and out of books for US customers. I'm assuming this was after the payout on the teaser with the bad line.

I dont think its unreasonable to think there is a decent possibility he may have kept depositing daily until he had reached a balance sufficient for his weekly action. If the above is correct, dont you think there is some correlation there?

I think the idea about a neutral arbitration of Dan's choice is a great idea, but I must say I feel a little hesitant 5d would agree to that.

It's no wonder mods ignore threads when the moment John makes any constructive comment y'all start poking sticks up his ass.

Who is y'all? HH might be a bit harsh at times, but not extreme. Besides him, only leaves you, me, Dan, and raiders. You're not referring to yourself, assume not Dan since its his thread and he's just looking for responses. Raiders, well, most definitely isnt poking sticks up his ass. That leaves me.

Not sure I agree with his reasoning, and only saw myself asking questions. Didnt see myself being offensive or insulting, was I really?

I'm not sure this is proven. If the player deposited to take advantage of this promotion (which was being debated a while ago), then would he have made all these straight bets / whatever else had he lost? Not proven. If he had made them, would he have made them at 5Dimes (given his was a new account, and presumably previously bet elsewhere), also not proven..

Little is proven, a lot is speculative, but the opposite is also not proven. If nothing can be proven, why should Dan be pay for the books mistake?

In the event an account reaches a negative balance due to the re-grade of an event, all in-progress pending wagers will stand and be honored. Since winning wagers in this instance will be honored, immediate settlement of losing wagers is also expected.
Customers are responsible for settling all negative accounts. "Ignorance", "I wouldn't have made that last bet if I knew my balance would have been negative", or "It's not my fault the wager was graded wrong", will not be accepted as excuses for non-settlement of negative balances.

John, this still hasnt been addressed. If you were trying to interpret above rule, wouldnt you think the book may have asked for the money back had he lost? Or could he just have said, "Sorry I wouldnt have made that bet" and you would have sided with him?

[HedgeHog]

Good Luck getting Tony to EVER agree to arbitration. Just another smokescreen by SBR.

[Optional]

Who is y'all? HH might be a bit harsh at times, but not extreme. Besides him, only leaves you, me, Dan, and raiders. You're not referring to yourself, assume not Dan since its his thread and he's just looking for responses. Raiders, well, most definitely isnt poking sticks up his ass. That leaves me.

Not sure I agree with his reasoning, and only saw myself asking questions. Didnt see myself being offensive or insulting, was I really?

No. I meant Hedgie.

[shari91]

looks like Jusin, bill and sbr John came here to chime in.. why not in betislands thread???

Bill posted 8hrs ago about BetIslands.

[Dan bouton]

Would anybody reccomend doing a ********** for my cc deposits on this acct? If I did do u think it could affect any legal proceedings I may pursue? This may be the only way to get any $ from 5d, but I'm worried this can be used against me if I pursue legal action.

[Optional]

For $900, I would not bother if you want to keep gambling with Costa Rican based books.

[Alluvada143]

Dan you cry baby, do not try to pull out magic rabbits from CC scam as for that pony amount it is not all worth it!!!

Only Tony can help you in this world as your case is flawed with initial bad lines... Speak with him properly and explain your case may be you get something out of nothing. Ask Tony if he agrees for arbitration, if he does you may have little odds in getting some portion of the cash...

[raydog]

can you even do a ********** on something from months ago ... what do you mean the only way you could get money from 5d...you already got your 900 +10k back..cmon dan.

haha, HH...wouldnt you love to hear the convo between dan and tony on if tony would like to get an arbitrator involved ...

im afraid that even the suggestion could mean more headaches for you, dan... i can see tony telling you to send the 11k back and then they will discuss it...keep the money and tell you to fukk off... you have made out with the best possible outcome and i hope you have come to realize it...

have a great xmas guys

[ProlinePlayer]

If he got the arbitrator of his choice at SBR, there would be no need to go elsewhere. Justin7 had a clear concept of what was required in this case, and SBR shut him up.

The idea that 5 Dimes would agree to arbitration on this case is ridiculous. An independent arbitrator would be confused as to why he was even called in. This one is a no-brainer.

Any independent arbitrator, or court, is going to award Dan the money in minutes.

PLP