All Broker, Agent and Offshore Exchange Issues

[yellowstorm21]

As far as know this a phenomena exclusive to BIA. It was in my case of employee embezzlement couple of years ago. BIA seemed to be aware the situation even before i contacted them.

thanks for your reply
so, in your case BIA admitted that the scam was caused by one of their employees? in my case, they shift the blame on Orbit's side for not protecting their customer's accounts. you also had a fake bet put on your Orbit account?

[infotimbo]

The amount stolen from my account is quite big and I do not wish to give up on this case, because I feel that I didn't do anything wrong or acted carelessly. Which could be my next move do you think?

you could try to contact a lawyer in Curacao (as that's where both BiA as well as Orbit are licensed). It's a difficult case, to be honest, so no idea what it would lead to, but maybe it's worth a shot.

For example https://lms-advocaten.com/en/lms-cur...aming-lawyers/

He was able to help me in the past when I was scammed by a bookie

[Foosball Champ]

As far as know this a phenomena exclusive to BIA. It was in my case of employee embezzlement couple of years ago. BIA seemed to be aware the situation even before i contacted them.

[yellowstorm21]

Let me share with you the latest update concerning my case
I received this email from my bet agents BetInAsia after I have asked them to reinvestigate my case.

The whole investigation has been reviewed by our related department, and their confirmation is still based on the previous conclusion that no funds were received and the bets were in line.

We have pushed the departments, but the final outcome is based on the permanent confirmation that no further action can be done for this case.

With great sadness, we inform you that we cannot change nor affect this decision.

However, after 2 months of several requests they have never provided me the list with the IPs which logged in to my Orbit account on the 24th of September. Neither they have explained what they mean by saying that "bets were in line", especially when there is this huge odds disparity in how this bet is displayed, as you can see in the previous screenshots. How can they exclude that no fund passing happened? In my next post I will upload a conversation I had via live chat with one of BIA's agent, where you will see that they contradict themselves in almost everything they have told me so far.
For the time being, it seems that I have run out of choices. BIA hardly answers to my requests, Orbit's license provider also never answered to my email and the ADR services which I have turned to for help (IBAS, eCOGRA, curacao egaming) stated that they do not provide services for Orbit customers and they cannot help because I am not a Betfair customer. The amount stolen from my account is quite big and I do not wish to give up on this case, because I feel that I didn't do anything wrong or acted carelessly. Which could be my next move do you think? At least does anyone believe that there is a way to force Orbit and BIA to reply to my requests about the IP list and the huge odd disparity?
Thank you guys and sorry for my long post.

[BrummyNick_]

UK / Broker / Sharp Bookies

Hi

I have searched here but not found a specific answer so hoping I am not duplicating this query...

I am limited by most bookies. I am based in the UK and would like to follow a service who are doing well with footie trebles. Bet365 was good but even they have limited me. No decent bookies left. I don't really want to use my wife's ID or children's ID so thought a broker might be the way to go. Betinasia straight away said no. Several others were the same. Even if I used a VPN, when it asks me what country I am from, UK is not an option. I am currently researching VOdds.

I have also looked into crypto bookies, but most have p*** poor reviews.

So, do brokers actually care where I am from? If I used a VPN, do I run the risk of getting my account closed and losing any deposits?

I do use Betfair, but only the sportsbook offer doubles/trebles etc, but surprise surprise, they decided to limit me. Matched betting was good, but ended up getting most of my accounts limited. Betway after just ONE bet. WTF!

There MUST be a way. Surely?

Cheers
Nick

[Optional]

hi!! i didn't know bookie city, but i'm interested on lay!
Is this a licensed company? because on their website i didnt find it somewhere.
Also, markets are powered by Betfair and liquidity is the same?

read up the thread.

Not only are they not licensed, they are flying fake license information on their site.


It's a trick. Obvious scam.

[BOWLSZN]

shoot if they accept US players might give them a spin have only used Odsyy88 in the Past

[tennis1995]

They paid me out today after no suspicious activities identified.Strange process to me, happy I got my money.

[tennis1995]

Shady Business practices by Betcoinbookies

Hello,

I registered and been reading here since I took betting more seriously a couple of years ago.
I would like to share my experience with Betcoinbookies.com with you.

So I created an Orbit account with them around the start of November and went for a 2.000,00€ deposit.
Everything went fast and well.
I then took on my betting activities on MMA, Soccer and Tennis with my main focus on Tennis as this is the sport I am making most of my money with.
Over the course of the past 16 days I bet on several markets (around 25) and scored a total profit around 2.000,00€ split across different markets.

I therefore decided today to go for a withdraw of 3.8000,00€ after not having bet the past two days.
As soon as I requested this payout, I got an email telling me "As soon as the process of bet checking is completed, you will receive your funds to the address you indicated.".
Irritated by this message as I was expecting Betfair (and not my broker) taking care of this and also scared that my business (which is mainly betting big amounts on prices in market range on smaller tennis markets) may lead to problems in the future, I started asking questions to understand why and how they are doing this. The aim behind this was ensure, my business is in good hands with Betcoinbookies.

After three or four questions from my side, I received the following message:

"Dear Mr. ...,

kindly be informed that the withdrawal process is on hold until further notice, because your bets are under investigation by the Fraud Department.


As soon as the process is completed we will keep you informed. "

Nobody was so far able to give me any information about the bets in question and the reasoning for this.
I am aware myself that I have not done anything wrong.

I will keep you guys updated about this either way - depending on how this turns out I will have to clearly tell you to avoid their business practices.

[billax]

lay markets

hi!! i didn't know bookie city, but i'm interested on lay!
Is this a licensed company? because on their website i didnt find it somewhere.
Also, markets are powered by Betfair and liquidity is the same?

[Alfie White]

I'm going to offer my legal opinion here because this is some poor advice. There is a contractual agreement between Betfair and OP, which is implied. Orbit is simply an agent of Betfair, whereas Betfair has the final say in decisions. Orbit cannot force Betfair to release his funds from their account. He has to go straight to them/their regulator to get any kind of traction on this. Also, Betfair knows that Orbit has thousands of customers betting through Orbit's account on Betfair.

Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.
This is what I have been told so far by Betfair. Their regulators will not accept my complaint because I am not a registered customer at Betfair. Could you propose some kind of legal action against them?
Thanks again!!

Nice "leGaL oPIniOn" mate, same as if jjgold wrote it, kudos. Maybe he should go to the Palace as well, ask Charly to help him out, since bf is in London amrite?

BIA has been doing dodgy shiet in the past, nothing new from them. You need to keep pushing them for this case and post on all forums about it - public pressure is only thing that can force them to dig deeper and see what happened. From what I've read, they still haven't supplied the IPs, you can guess why.

[yellowstorm21]

I'm going to offer my legal opinion here because this is some poor advice. There is a contractual agreement between Betfair and OP, which is implied. Orbit is simply an agent of Betfair, whereas Betfair has the final say in decisions. Orbit cannot force Betfair to release his funds from their account. He has to go straight to them/their regulator to get any kind of traction on this. Also, Betfair knows that Orbit has thousands of customers betting through Orbit's account on Betfair.

Thank you for your post. I agree with you, about Betfair's involvement . As "Opti" suggested previously in his posts I have contacted with Betfair's live support 5 times so far, but all my requests were rejected.
Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.
This is what I have been told so far by Betfair. Their regulators will not accept my complaint because I am not a registered customer at Betfair. Could you propose some kind of legal action against them?
Thanks again!!

[Craig22]

Betfair: How are we connected to this please as we are Betfair, and have no influence or control over what happens at Orbit?

Betfair: I am completely confused as to why Orbit referred you to us. Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.

Opti, they won't do anything, as OP doesn't have contractual relationship with Betfair and thus they are not obliged to do anything - not to mention that if OP involves a lawyer, they will NOPE THE F OUT of the situation immediately and will stop responding completely.

I'm going to offer my legal opinion here because this is some poor advice. There is a contractual agreement between Betfair and OP, which is implied. Orbit is simply an agent of Betfair, whereas Betfair has the final say in decisions. Orbit cannot force Betfair to release his funds from their account. He has to go straight to them/their regulator to get any kind of traction on this. Also, Betfair knows that Orbit has thousands of customers betting through Orbit's account on Betfair.

[Alfie White]

Great, hope that continues, but I would never deposit a dime to a broker that is not licensed anywhere, some at least paid for the Curacao license, these plonkers haven't even done that one and are presenting as if they have Isle of Man license, which is incorrect. Disaster waiting to happen.

[arie1985]

Nice one "operated by BookieCity Ltd, Pletterijweg Oost, Ara Hilltop Building, Curaçao" and Isle of Man logo at the footer rofl, wouldn't register here in a million years.

I tried them myself and they were very solid so far, withdrawals of low 4 digits processed quite fast!

[Alfie White]

Nice one "operated by BookieCity Ltd, Pletterijweg Oost, Ara Hilltop Building, Curaçao" and Isle of Man logo at the footer rofl, wouldn't register here in a million years.

[arie1985]

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[yellowstorm21]

Completely incorrect.

Do not listen to this wrong and bad advice OP.

Betfair is your only chance to get this fixed. And they will help. They have helped multiple times before when Orbit pull this excuse.


Your answer to the agent saying what is their part is "Betfair operate the market and have access to all the data and authorized Orbit to act as their agent".

Next step is to find a lawyer with industry experience to assess your case. Initial assessment for viability should be free.

Thanks Opti. I will continue "disturbing" Betfair.

[yellowstorm21]

Responsibility lies with BIA and OX, they need to provide you with IP as they have it almost 100%. As I said in the beginning, BF will not move an inch to assist you in any shape or form, this has nothing to do with them - you are not their client.

OX (and subsequently BIA) have data on the IPs 100%, but they are covering each other up and shifting blame. If I were you, I would file a GDPR request from BIA where I would request all the data on my placed bets across all of their offers, then they have to provide you with the data and if they don't you can potentially file a serious GDPR complaint and f them up significantly.

BIA still hasn't sent me the IP list they promised to send. So , how can I file a GPDR request from BIA? I haven't done it before. And thanks again for your reply.

[Optional]

You are wrong Alfie.

[Alfie White]

Betfair: How are we connected to this please as we are Betfair, and have no influence or control over what happens at Orbit?

Betfair: I am completely confused as to why Orbit referred you to us. Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.

Opti, they won't do anything, as OP doesn't have contractual relationship with Betfair and thus they are not obliged to do anything - not to mention that if OP involves a lawyer, they will NOPE THE F OUT of the situation immediately and will stop responding completely.

[Optional]

Responsibility lies with BIA and OX, they need to provide you with IP as they have it almost 100%. As I said in the beginning, BF will not move an inch to assist you in any shape or form, this has nothing to do with them - you are not their client.

Completely incorrect.

Do not listen to this wrong and bad advice OP.

Betfair is your only chance to get this fixed. And they will help. They have helped multiple times before when Orbit pull this excuse.


Your answer to the agent saying what is their part is "Betfair operate the market and have access to all the data and authorized Orbit to act as their agent".

Next step is to find a lawyer with industry experience to assess your case. Initial assessment for viability should be free.

[Alfie White]

Responsibility lies with BIA and OX, they need to provide you with IP as they have it almost 100%. As I said in the beginning, BF will not move an inch to assist you in any shape or form, this has nothing to do with them - you are not their client.

OX (and subsequently BIA) have data on the IPs 100%, but they are covering each other up and shifting blame. If I were you, I would file a GDPR request from BIA where I would request all the data on my placed bets across all of their offers, then they have to provide you with the data and if they don't you can potentially file a serious GDPR complaint and f them up significantly.

[yellowstorm21]

there is another update to my case. two days ago finally (after a month's "hide and seek") I got the following answer from Orbit (info@orbitexch.com)


Please do note that we don't have direct access to any customer's account, due to our business model that includes only working via agents. You should get in touch with your agent to report this case, and they will get in touch with Betfair's fraud department to do any checking's needed in your account.

Ι forwarded this message to BIA and asked for explanation. They haven't answered yet. I also contacted with Betfair online support asked to speak with someone from their fraud department, as Orbit mentioned. please read my dialogue with Betfair

Betfair: How are we connected to this please as we are Betfair, and have no influence or control over what happens at Orbit?
16:29, Oct 24
Me : so why Orbit mentioned your fraud department?

16:29, Oct 24
Me : I do not claim that you are connected

16:30, Oct 24
Me : I am just trying to find somebody to help me , to investigate that fake scam bet

16:34, Oct 24
Betfair: I am completely confused as to why Orbit referred you to us. Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.

In my opinion it is obvious that are involved parties (Betfair, Orbit, BIA) are trying to avoid responsibility. I do not know how I could put more pressure on them to begin dealing with my case properly and fairly, by giving answers with facts.

[yellowstorm21]

They do not offer a proper dispute resolution process. But this is their license issuer email certria@gaminglicences.com

Another reason why Betfair should be obliged to assist users with problems. This should fall squarely on Betfair's shoulders.

thank you!

[yellowstorm21]

some user on Arbusers.com mentioned that he got help from compliance@curacao-egaming.com

https://arbusers.com/account-suspended-orbit-t7703/

License information can be found here:

https://validator.antillephone.com/validate?domain=www.orbitexch.com&seal_i d=a75acf62b87a41f9d7c92cc3c944685c8d7d98 ef50f6e6764d9c2ad4d87afb1ae4e3e6ca87403c 247b6888f5d0ef0e2b&stamp=f918f9d0b675c3d bacd80f3ffdf8b3ab

Usually it's difficult to get much help from Curacaon authorities, though

thanks!

[infotimbo]

some user on Arbusers.com mentioned that he got help from compliance@curacao-egaming.com

https://arbusers.com/account-suspended-orbit-t7703/

License information can be found here:

https://validator.antillephone.com/validate?domain=www.orbitexch.com&seal_i d=a75acf62b87a41f9d7c92cc3c944685c8d7d98 ef50f6e6764d9c2ad4d87afb1ae4e3e6ca87403c 247b6888f5d0ef0e2b&stamp=f918f9d0b675c3d bacd80f3ffdf8b3ab

Usually it's difficult to get much help from Curacaon authorities, though

[Optional]

They do not offer a proper dispute resolution process. But this is their license issuer email certria@gaminglicences.com

Another reason why Betfair should be obliged to assist users with problems. This should fall squarely on Betfair's shoulders.

[yellowstorm21]

I wonder how I will be able to find out who operates Orbit Exchange? Who is the approved ADR for Orbit Exchange?

[KVB]

Correct, market manipulaition is far more rampant that many realize and not as difficult as many think. It can get expensive though.

There is a who sub industry around it. I talk briefly about that level of the industry in the Intro to Sportsbetting video I made.

[Foxx]

Sucks you're getting the run around. Somehow, I doubt the 20 ip claim. I'd bet they could pull up every login and bet placement ip since the account was created.

[infotimbo]

If it was as simple as that, syndicates would be constantly "rigging" Pinny odds so they could bet the other side they want elsewhere.

the pinny part is indeed that easy, though. With a marked acount, a single double-digit low limit bet can move odds from 2.0 to 1.6 or something like that on exotic sports/leagues.

But it's obiously not a strategy that would work long-term, as most bookies that copy early pinny's odds 1:1 limit quickly anyway, or don't allow noteworthy stakes to begin with.

[KVB]

Notice I say logging in from different locales, not "to" different locales.

I'm not talking about seeing a difference between DK in Pennsylvania vs. DK Colorado for the respective local teams.

I'm talking different accounts, from different areas, with different styles of play even, seeing different offered real time lines.

It's a little more than just differing PPH lines as well.

[KVB]

not at the same time, yeah, but accounts may be categorized differently by pin, and therefor move odds less or more. So it can still make sense.

New accounts for example often even allow two bets without odds movement, for example. But normally it doesn't take long for them to get adjusted.

This is our experience, for the most part.

it's not always the same odds for everyone and believe it or not I can have different available Pinny prices up on one screen, even if just by pennies.

I mentioned just the other day about watching the Padres price. I mention constatnly logging in to different pages...

...We are watching closely, not only with multiple different types of services, but computer scripts logging in from different locales studying the offered real time lines...

Yes, there are real time lines and an opener and closer, but perhaps real time lines is a good terminology.

I came up with a term and would consider the term "offered real time lines" to be more specific, to the line you can get right then and there, no the one you see on a report or screen.

Sometimes, the offered real time line isn't even what you log in, see, and click on. Sometimes you find that wasn't available to you after all.

[KVB]

If it was as simple as that, syndicates would be constantly "rigging" Pinny odds so they could bet the other side they want elsewhere.

Well, it does happen in the market.

It's not unusual to have pieces of both sides, but one more sided than the other, as you walk a price a certain direction. It's not unlike stock manipulation.

I could "sell" the Giants early, get that steam rolling, then by them back after we can capture a few numbers.

In fact, we joked in FlyME that posting the opening buys in the UPSET Basket, because of lower liquid market, is really just me waiting to buy back the other way, maybe to get both teams as small dogs.

I absolutely could have successfully done that and in some cases might have, even though the opening positions might not be very big, but I don't think posting in the Saloon mattered there. I was just ahead of the market anyway, lol. If I got Iowa +150 on Sunday, immediately posted, and they were -150 2 hours later or Monday morning, I don't think it was because of FlyMe readers. Pretty sure if I sold any back, I posted it as well.

Easy to have shady strategies for sure, but I've just been a bit too honest, lol.