[Leo Bello]

They will probably not allow this fine article explaining exactly how they do limit and keep track of players expertise (which they refer to as MSF [maximum stake factor]) and even have players bets color coded regarding their desirability or not and even the location of where the wager was made, which all goes in to whom is limited or barred from playing, but I would venture to say that most will learn something by perusing this article. I will print the link below, but read the entire article and I think you will find it insightful, especially considering the volume of posts quizzing people on how to not get flagged or collared when playing at some books. That is, if the moderators don't erase this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mosl...addiction.html

[baskets]

will read. let's see what u got

[Sam Odom]

thanks.... i bookmarked it for later reading

[dj_destroyer]

I like how the WillHill linesmaker admits to not only playing at other books but winning and getting limited!

One thing I found weird is that I can't find the program "ATS Flight Deck" anywhere on the internet...

[Duff85]

"The computer program takes prices generated by the huge Asian betting market and blends them with estimates of goal expectancies, then throws out a list of prices for 120 different markets in each game."

Translation: "We vig up SBO odds."

[shari91]

Actually Leo, it's much more preferable when people post links rather than straight copying and pasting another site's articles. Thank you for this. Will read it when I'm done work tonight.

[tommygun]

nice

[ZetaPsi808]

interesting article about how live betting works.

but it did not tell us how to not get limited

[shari91]

I just skimmed the beginning of this article. I hope JJ takes the time to read it as him and I have discussed countless times if we think there are actually traders setting and monitoring the live betting as it happens or if it was all computer automation considering how many in-play markets the UK books have - especially 365. My uneducated guess was people; his was computers. This confirms that it's actually people. Bloody crazy. Especially for the guy who was stuck doing the German basketball based purely on data feeds.

Betfair net over 50 million pounds on the Aussie Open final

Ladbrokes and Willy Hill had a net revenue of 1 billion pounds last year; bet365 $501 million pounds with no shops

[jjgold]

Shari reading now you mother fukker

Don't tell me when to read an article , I have a clue and can get get a good grasp on articles by looking at title

[shari91]

Shari reading now you mother fukker

Don't tell me when to read an article , I have a clue and can get get a good grasp on articles by looking at title

You wouldn't have any clue from the title, you horseshoe headed dingaling.

[jjgold]

As the matches progress, the onus is on traders to keep the prices up to date and either feed the algorithm the latest data from the game or check prices are set correctly.

[Duff85]

This confirms that it's actually people. Bloody crazy. Especially for the guy who was stuck doing the German basketball based purely on data feeds.

Technically its still computers setting them... its just a trader actively monitoring the game in case they start getting bombed or if they want to tweak the auto-set prices. Interesting too that even the live in play odds are based on the big books.

Edit: looks like JJ beat me to the punch.

[jjgold]

Much of the mind-blowing maths is handled by an algorithm created by William Hill’s R&D department.

The computer program takes prices generated by the huge Asian betting market and blends them with estimates of goal expectancies, then throws out a list of prices for 120 different markets in each game.

[Hareeba!]

Genuine bookmakers are a close to being an extinct species.

[jjgold]

Technically its still computers setting them... its just a trader actively monitoring the game in case they start getting bombed or if they want to tweak the auto-set prices. Interesting too that even the live in play odds are based on the big books.

Edit: looks like JJ beat me to the punch.

I rarely miss anything
Duffy I can school Shari in most areas of gambling, she is excellent competition though
She needs to stop fantasizing about riding my 2.5" tool and listen to me more as far as gambling

[shari91]

Much of the mind-blowing maths is handled by an algorithm created by William Hill’s R&D department.

The computer program takes prices generated by the huge Asian betting market and blends them with estimates of goal expectancies, then throws out a list of prices for 120 different markets in each game.

"Much" of the mind-blowing maths - not all. But you and I were questioning how anyone would be keeping track of all of those games.

As it says: "Around the room traders throw numbers and odds back and forth from desk to desk, handling 310 bets per minute between them. Prices are constantly challenged, checked, dissected and recalculated."

It also says: "Over the course of the game the trader will set prices, change bets..."

and about Indian Wells: "... generating extremely heavy betting and is controlled by a trader who appears moulded to his desk, keying in each point by hand and adjusting the odds accordingly."

Humans are doing that. Not computers.

[MatI]

nice article. I will not read it though, I have learnt from JJ, and can get the gist off 'feel'.

[shari91]

nice article. I will not read it though, I have learnt from JJ, and can get the gist off 'feel'.

And sorry Leo to go off about the live betting aspect but I really didn't learn in this article how books decide to limit players. All the inplay stuff and hearing how much Betfair raked in on the Aussie Open final though was well-worth the read alone. (Yisman and JJ will understand why for that last part I'm sure).

[jjgold]

"Much" of the mind-blowing maths - not all. But you and I were questioning how anyone would be keeping track of all of those games.

As it says: "Around the room traders throw numbers and odds back and forth from desk to desk, handling 310 bets per minute between them. Prices are constantly challenged, checked, dissected and recalculated."

It also says: "Over the course of the game the trader will set prices, change bets..."

and about Indian Wells: "... generating extremely heavy betting and is controlled by a trader who appears moulded to his desk, keying in each point by hand and adjusting the odds accordingly."

Humans are doing that. Not computers.

Cranky today...just think about my pole hun and smile...soon

Ok.............I will give you 1/2 credit here ..did not realize they are monitored by people 24 hrs a day

[shari91]

Cranky today...just think about my pole hun and smile...soon

Ok.............I will give you 1/2 credit here ..did not realize they are monitored by people 24 hrs a day

As you should.

To be fair although I suspected they had people monitoring this stuff, I didn't realise the extent of it or sheer number of people doing so. Up to 20 guys - some of them without any video? No wonder why they get booted from other shops so quickly when they try to bet themselves.

[Vaughany]

I just skimmed the beginning of this article. I hope JJ takes the time to read it as him and I have discussed countless times if we think there are actually traders setting and monitoring the live betting as it happens or if it was all computer automation considering how many in-play markets the UK books have - especially 365. My uneducated guess was people; his was computers. This confirms that it's actually people. Bloody crazy. Especially for the guy who was stuck doing the German basketball based purely on data feeds.

Betfair net over 50 million pounds on the Aussie Open final

Ladbrokes and Willy Hill had a net revenue of 1 billion pounds last year; bet365 $501 million pounds with no shops

U are correct, there are always jobs available in the UK and Malta to be a live-betting operative or whatever they like to call it

[pedro803]

It does say that it raises an eyebrow when they see the sharps clustered together. Begs the question of what sort of algorithm they use to identify sharpness -- some of it probably hinges on to how closely one's plays map onto the plays of others who have already been designated sharp, and/or beating the closing line. So as suggested in other threads, it is much easier for them to single out line shoppers as opposed to the puntor who does her/his own handicapping, I am not suggesting that these two (handicapping and shopping) should be separate. Rather, just that it is much easier for them to pick up on a pattern of picking off weak lines, but if you got your own proprietary stuff you might live to play a little longer.

[Sam Odom]

Asians bet in clusters

10-20 will hit the same bet all at the same time

[wrongturn]

For live betting, I think they hire people to attend games, not by looking at TV because there could be delay or other info not available on TV. These people all have a device that they can punch play by play data in and transmit to central office in real time.

[Dutch]

What I got from all this is that Shari called JJ (Don't call me Ari) Gold a Dingaling.

[shari91]

For live betting, I think they hire people to attend games, not by looking at TV because there could be delay or other info not available on TV. These people all have a device that they can punch play by play data in and transmit to central office in real time.

I've always wondered about this - especially for tiny tennis matches that have no televised coverage. Considering players only have 25 seconds between points and most don't even come close to taking that, the only feasible explanation is that someone's there watching and providing that info to whomever. How the hell do you get that job???

Also when you think about all of the factors that make up a tennis match, including fatigue, medical TOs, a player starting to shank the ball wildly or barely clear the net with their serve, I'm stunned that they get those lines up as soon as the point is completed.

Damn, I wish SBR could get one of these UK live traders to do a video. I'm just really fascinated by the mechanics of it all.

[Sam Odom]

about the time delay

do NOT forget they (books) will cancel & refund in a heartbeat

[Duff85]

The live updates from games are done by external companies that the books pay for. There are several major ones and they are nearly always hiring - but yeah that's how the books get the info from games.

[pellumb341]

For live betting, I think they hire people to attend games, not by looking at TV because there could be delay or other info not available on TV. These people all have a device that they can punch play by play data in and transmit to central office in real time.

This is true ...Some friends of mine do this kind of job !

[shari91]

This is true ...Some friends of mine do this kind of job !

pellumb, do you know much about their actual jobs? Like are they merely feeding the scores or are they giving updates on other factors ie a player starting to scream at the Chair Ump, starting to limp around, etc? (All stuff that when we're watching a match as bettors that we obviously take into consideration when placing an in play wager.) Do they have some sort of special device they use to relay that info or do they just use a phone/ipad? Do they have to hide what they're doing when they're in the stands?

I feel like all these questions I've wondered about for years are finally getting answered. Probably should've just stopped being lazy and started a thread about this ages ago

[pellumb341]

When i have asked , he has told me that all the time he speaks on the phone ,so it means that they update everything . They use phones and they don't have any reason to hide what they are doing .

I am from Albania and that's not that bookies put these league matches , but some asians put them usually when they are played on wednesday cuz there are no other leagues matches .

[FreeFall]

Nothing too suprising to me here. If anything I'm amazed they haven't automated even more of it.

[jjgold]

Books do not hire people to go to especially when very little action bet on it

Duff85 hit the nail on the head

[baskets]

horseshoe headed dingaling

damn, shari, and I thought I could think up some good shit.



best mod in the business.

btw, did we get a shari/jjgold phone video yet? that would be classic w/ those 2 accents throwing friendly insults at one another