[horja1]

Put yourself in Pinnacle's place. Why would you want to deal with a likely fraudster?

If this kind of situations was standard, you could deposit, charge back, place a bet before balance's update and (if you won) ask to deduct original deposit from balance to withdraw.

Let me know of any sportsbook which is fine with this. I could make a bunch of money in no time.

But if he would have lost the money his account would have a negative balance now and Pinnacle would ask him to make that deposit, right?

[jjgold]

If Pinnacle put the money in the account, so the player could wager with it, and the deposit didn't clear as quickly as usual, but still cleared after a confusion that was beyond the player's control, there is no reason for Pinnacle not to pay the winnings. I don't know the full story, but it seems that Pinnacle is using a delay in the transaction as excuse not to pay. If they're that worried about timing, why even put the money in the account before the deposit has cleared? If the story is as told, this is unfair business practice by Pinnacle.

It seems Pinny took a shot at the player here

[han]

i do not agree.
there are rules and when a bookmaker applies only his rules- that is a great thing.
unfortunately most of the bookies do what they like,when they like,even hidden rules,decide case-by-case,player-by-player, etc.
Pinnacle has a rule-if the deposit didn't cleared,ALL BETS ARE VOID.
the player had the money and really wanted to make the deposit,he showed bank statement with the money at the time of deposit,
but the DEPOSIT DIDN'T CLEARED IN TIME.

if bets were lost,then what?

[Optional]

Worrying report.

[SlickRick1382]

Worrying report.

Indeed.

Type of stuff that makes you want to stop wagering offshore

[SBR Lou]

Pinnacle has a rule-if the deposit didn't cleared,ALL BETS ARE VOID.

if bets were lost,then what?

It isn't relevant to consider what the player would have done if his wagers lost; you can only speculate. You are correct though that the $840 deposit never cleared, so essentially he was wagering with funds that were never at risk.

The reason instant EFT deposit methods are prone to disputes is cases like this. We get them every year. Normally, the transaction fails as the client doesn't have sufficient funds to cover his transaction. A common ploy is making a deposit with funds you don't have, and if your wager(s) win, load your account so the balance is there by the time the book's processor withdraws your funds.

The player did produce a screenshot of his electronic statement, which appears to show a balance on that date (minus timestamp). We can say with certainty he had no action on his first deposit. The player says his second deposit for $217 cleared. If he's able to produce the required CC authorization forms, he'd likely recover that deposit and have a case at percentage of the balance which was actually at risk.

Pinnacle has never cheated a player. The majority seem to miss that his balance, with the exception of the alleged $217 CC deposit, was funny money. We're confirming the timeline with Pinnacle and determining what the next step is.

[horja1]

The majority seem to miss that his balance, with the exception of the alleged $217 CC deposit, was funny money.

What would have happened if the OP would have lost his "funny money" instead of winning? Would Pinnacle ask the player to complete his deposit in that case or it would not matter, since he only bet "funny money"? Can you ask please Pinnacle for their position regarding that? (I am just curious to see their answer)

[wtf]

if the player has a long history with the book as he claims , they really should cut him slack

it is good business

[flocko76]

I made a deposit of 1057 Canadian Dollars to Pinnacle Sports in February. 840$ was made throught insta debit and 217$ was made through vi sa. I made 5 wagers in the week following for each approximately 1000$. I won 4 out of 5 wagers in the following week and my account balance was 4016$ six days later. That day all of my funds had been removed from my account. When I contacted customer service, they said there was a problem with my insta debit deposit and it had not gone through. This was 6 days after my deposit and during this time I had recieved no warning or notification that there was a problem. There was some fraudulent activity in my bank account in January therefore the bank had blocked the transaction because they viewed it as suspicious. I sent a copy of my bank statement to Pinnacle to show that I had sufficient funds in my account at the time of deposit and it was a mistake by the bank to block the deposit. insta debit resubmitted the deposit and Pinnacle was able to collect the money after I spoke to the bank and told them it was a legitimate transaction.

I have been a Pinnacle customer for over 4 years during which time I had made over 30 similar deposits to Pinnacle without any problems. I have tried to show Pinnacle that the deposit was made in good faith and that it was simply a mistake by the bank to not let the deposit go throught but they have stopped responding to my emails. They have also confiscated my Vi sa deposit and subsequent winnnings as a result of that deposit. The Vi sa deposit went through without any issues so they had no reason to take that money. I have been an honest customer and I feel Pinnacle is using a bank error to avoid paying my winnings. I sent all this information to SBR and filed a dispute. However, despite the best efforts of SBR Pinnacle has ignored the dispute and I havent recieved a response in 2 weeks. I did not expect this from the supposedly most reliable sportsbook and I am done with off shore sportsbooks.

I want to know why this guy had to change the font on his initial post. or is this all bs and he just copied and pasted some story from somewhere else to bad mouth pinnacle?

[jstblaze]

It is not the books fault your deposit didnt go through.

As unfortunate as it is, your winnings being taken is standard in my opinion. I fully understand it sucks you went on a roll at the same time.

The other deposit via card should be returned. That is the only thing the book did wrong and I think it is as someone else mentioned they just lumped it as the "suspicious deposits" under your account.

If they let you keep your winnings it would be an awesome move by the book for a long time regular customer, but they deal with so much trouble and shady shot taking players that they just cant manage to differentiate anymore.

[pitman]

this seems so odd. Back when i used INSTAD...
This happened to me once. Can not recall if it was pinnacle or not tho. Funds became locked in gambling acct until I settled with INSTAD. INSTAD gave me a week or something. Did everything right, so INSTAD got my money- gambling acct got word and unlocked funds.
INSTAD pays pinnacle, you pay INSTAD.
Could be different now tho. this was 2 + years ago

[tgoodm1]

INSTAD isn't such a good method after all then. Neteller was an awesome method when it was available to US players. The money had to be in the account for a deposit to be made. Only 2 parties were involved (Neteller and the book).

INSTAD has 3 parties evidently (Bank, INSTAD and book), which leaves a lot of room for error and nightmares.

The best option for sending funds, which leaves no doubt is "efectivo".

[Sig23]

If you have used instad to deposit with Pinnacle 30+ times, why did your bank block it this time? I have had my DC stolen before and fraudulent purchases made. Once the issue is fixed though everything goes back to normal and a place where you've used your account 30+ times would not be rules suspicious even after your account was compromised.

Also as a fellow Canadian, how do you depo with your v i s a card? I have no been able to depo using v i s a for like 2ish years?

[SBR Lou]

Also as a fellow Canadian, how do you depo with your ******* card? I have no been able to depo using ***** for like 2ish years?

Hi guys,

Let's please avoid discussing the ins/outs of using select banking methods. This thread isn't for that, and forum policy still applies.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

So basically, if there is a problem with an EFT transaction, it can ONLY be negative for the player? That seems like the book has built in the ability to take shots at players.

If he loses $840, Pinnacle will say you owe us $840. If he wins $5,000, pinnacle voids it. The assumption seems to be that every EFT transaction that doesn't go through is the player's fault and I'm not sure that is a fair assumption.

[jjgold]

Well you know if Lou on the case the right decision will be made period
He will do his homework

[wrongturn]

So basically, if there is a problem with an EFT transaction, it can ONLY be negative for the player? That seems like the book has built in the ability to take shots at players.

If he loses $840, Pinnacle will say you owe us $840. If he wins $5,000, pinnacle voids it. The assumption seems to be that every EFT transaction that doesn't go through is the player's fault and I'm not sure that is a fair assumption.

In most of the cases when deposit "bounced" (100% by cheaters), if players lose the balance in bets, they just simply walk away, and books can't do anything about it. That is why all books have a clear rule about fund clearing as condition of bets honored.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

In most of the cases when deposit "bounced" (100% by cheaters), if players lose the balance in bets, they just simply walk away, and books can't do anything about it. That is why all books have a clear rule about fund clearing as condition of bets honored.

And if this guy was a first time user with pinnacle, I'd agree with the outcome entirely.

But if it is true that this guy is a long time customer with no prior problems like this, pinnacle obviously needs to do the right thing and refund the balance.

[cloverfield]

The problem here is that Pinnacle has a clear rule in that if for ANY reason a deposit does not clear, the winnings will be CONFISCATED. (This is the rule with most books which employ a method where funds have to "clear" but you're given credit immediately).

Now given your history (if correct) and your use of this deposit method plenty of times without issue, I can't see why Pinnacle wouldn't make an exception. For them to completely ignore you for 2 weeks SUGGESTS that there is more going on. Why would they want to lose a 4+ year client over something like that?.. ESPECIALLY if you are down money lifetime of the account(if you are).

I know there are always exceptions, but when you use a deposit method like this you ALWAYS run the risk of SOMETHING happening and the funds not clearing. You have to admit that they are VERY clear about this when depositing with this method.. It clearly states that ANY WINNINGS will be CONFISCATED if the deposit does not clear FOR ANY REASON.

Pinnacle has to have a broad rule because we all know there are people out there that will try and take advantage of any situation. It's a very strict stance but according to your post it's not like they are doing something underhanded or fraudulent.

[Hank Rose]

wondered if you lost, would they void the wagers?

Exactly. That is the issue. They wouldn't have. They would have demanded payment.

Pinnacle is a good book, but this is a million bucks worth of bad publicity to save a couple of grand. Times must be tough there.

[wrongturn]

And if this guy was a first time user with pinnacle, I'd agree with the outcome entirely.

But if it is true that this guy is a long time customer with no prior problems like this, pinnacle obviously needs to do the right thing and refund the balance.

I am not saying OP is doing it, but there are plenty of fraud that a player uses good past history to stiff book at end. Obviously, it is Pinnacle's decision that whether they'd like to spend time to get the bottom of this on such a small amount to them.

[jjgold]

If you go buy rules Pinny 100% right

Maybe they will work with the player if he has a good history

[PickWinnerAllDay]

I am not saying OP is doing it, but there are plenty of fraud that a player uses good past history to stiff book at end. Obviously, it is Pinnacle's decision that whether they'd like to spend time to get the bottom of this on such a small amount to them.

Common sense would indicate someone with a long track record of deposits wouldn't try to pull a fast one with 840 bucks.

Besides, even if it was his intent to pull a fast one, why didn't he deposit the money when the bet won? Doesn't pass the logic test to me. It was obviously an honest mistake of some kind.

[tgoodm1]

INSTAD shouldn't be called INSTAD as the name implies. Not instant afterall.

Books should not allow action until after all has cleared.

[Dark Horse]

Well you know if Lou on the case the right decision will be made period
He will do his homework

lol

[Stocks]

Even though Pinnacle has a rule about this kind of stuff it still seems like a very bad buisness decision on their part. If this guy has played there for a long time and made many deposits (which probably means hes a losing player) then it would be in their best interest to keep the customer happy he would probably just lose that money back anyway. But instead of letting this slide and keeping the customer happy they don't pay and lose this guy forever.

Seems like there would be more to this story.

[soccerdouglas]

thats a pretty grimy move from a huge book like that if everything you are saying is true..i always thought pinny was rock solid..let me share a story about what happened to one of my deposits at heritage..i deposited 300 thru m o n e y g r a m and i won a couple of grand that night..next day guy called me from heritage and said something went wrong with the deposit, even though they had put the cash in they couldnt pick it up..so i called m o n ey g r a m and they told me that they had cancelled it..they wanted me to resend it but instead of resending the deposit i told heritage hey just deduct the deposit amount from the winnings and they did it with no issues....i mean if you play at a book all the time they should not pull any crap on you....books know you are in it for the long haul..a big operation like pinny crying about a few dimes esp when you are sending a dime just doesnt make sense....not sure why they wouldnt just pay you and wait for you to send it back eventually.

This is what I thought, especially considering Pinnacle's reputation. I was in no way trying to cheat them. I mean considering how much I have deposited into Pinnacle, 840$ is nothing.

[soccerdouglas]

The player did produce a screenshot of his electronic statement, which appears to show a balance on that date (minus timestamp). We can say with certainty he had no action on his first deposit. The player says his second deposit for $217 cleared. If he's able to produce the required CC authorization forms, he'd likely recover that deposit and have a case at percentage of the balance which was actually at risk.

I can get you the CC authorization form if a screenshot of my vi sa transactions is not sufficient.

[soccerdouglas]

Even though Pinnacle has a rule about this kind of stuff it still seems like a very bad buisness decision on their part. If this guy has played there for a long time and made many deposits (which probably means hes a losing player) then it would be in their best interest to keep the customer happy he would probably just lose that money back anyway. But instead of letting this slide and keeping the customer happy they don't pay and lose this guy forever.

Seems like there would be more to this story.

I wouldn't say that I'm a losing player probably closer to even. Pinnacle even acknowledged that my deposit must have been in good faith when I sent them my bank statement but still refused to pay the winnings. They did respond to my intial emails but havent responded to my latest emails. They did however email me saying I could continue to use my insta debit for deposits after my deposit cleared their system.

[wantitall4moi]

LMAo so many guys jumping to conclusions and making shit up as always. When was the last time you heard a guy complain about Pinnacle backcharging him on losses on a deposit that didnt clear...I will answer it NEVER. I am also sure that it happens all the time, as in they have guys lose deposits that didnt clear, so where are the complaints? They dont exist because more than Likely Pinnacle calls it a wash, as in the money didnt exist so it wasnt 'lost'.

In theory the money wagered effects their handle but in cases of small amounts like this it is definitely negligible. So it doesnt matter to them one way or the other.

Pinnale has rules, they go both ways.

I still say there is more to this than we have heard. The CC money doesnt make sense but the best they could do is refund it as pro-rating tickets on it would be a nightmare, unless there is a very precise timeline and the CC money was put in before the other money and bets were made off that 217. Which I doubt highly happened.

Putting money in by two different methods is suspicious on its own, when one of the transactions doesnt clear it is an obvious flag, so the knee jerk reaction to shut everything down is justified. But if it has been investigated then I dont know why that deposit wasnt refunded. Thats why I say I think thee is more to this than we have heard.

But if you guys are really so worried about it just ** everything regardless of what country youre in. Or have specific instructions that you dont want funds made available until after they have cleared your bank. Then these things wouldnt happen. but then everyone would piss andmoan about how long it takes, which is exactly what Pinnacle has to do, they wait for he money to clear but give people the benefit of the doubt and let them wager immediately with it. So you have to take the negatives witht e positives.

In reality the money didnt exist, at least the majority of it, therefore there were no 'winnings' to confiscate. Just like I said originally. The "legit' money (give the benefit of the doubt) simply got lost in the shuffle. While not exactly stellar (assuming the player did nothing wrong) it certainly isnt some major black eye on Pinnacle.

Seriously this is about a few hundred buck to a book that has paid millions out to people. Therefore the book gets the benefit of the doubt here. Their record is nearly unblemished, they have rules that they actually follow. Obviously giving the guy 5 grand would have kept a few degenerates from wildly speculating about them, but the fact they took a stand shows they know theyre in the right, which from what i have seen they are. With the exception of the smaller transaction. But like I said that one was more than likely lumped in or maybe missed.

[wrongturn]

Common sense would indicate someone with a long track record of deposits wouldn't try to pull a fast one with 840 bucks.

Besides, even if it was his intent to pull a fast one, why didn't he deposit the money when the bet won? Doesn't pass the logic test to me. It was obviously an honest mistake of some kind.

You are absolutely correct. Making exceptions to the rules in certain cases could be beneficial to business, as another poster mentioned about Heritage. But I won't be surprised that if Pinnacle decides to stick to the rules once valued the effect of all possible outcomes.

[playersonly69]

Deposit didnt go through, so all bets after do not count.


Because had you lost, then you would not have owed money either

[fixxer]

Is the 840$ an usual deposit for you? For example if the last 29 deposits were 10-20$-s, I can see why Pinny acted like this.
If 840$ is not an unusually big ammount amongst the previous deposits, Pinny made a just decision (following their rules) - but an awful business move...one of the differences between good, and A+ bookies is, that how they deal with issues, like this

[OMGRandyJackson]

I still do not understand why your bank would block a transaction you've already done like 30+ times.

[pitman]

Deposit didnt go through, so all bets after do not count.


Because had you lost, then you would not have owed money either

This seems very wrong to me. Had he lost, I am 90% positive his balance would be -840