1. #1
    zzzzzbest
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    BetOnline Poker Withholding $4k Winnings - Advice?

    Hi All,

    First let me say that I am a heads up player only at BetOnline poker. As in, I only play in tables that have 2 seats. Therefore, it is impossible for me to "collude" with anyone.

    My account at BetOnline poker was recently frozen for sharing an IP address. This occurred when me and my brother stayed at a hotel this weekend (2/24/2012) on a trip to Austin, and both played on the site at the same time. As mentioned above, I am a heads up player only, and we did NOT play together in any money games of any sort whatsoever.

    The next day, my account was frozen with ~$4000 in it, and I received the following e-mail from BetOnline:

    While checking your account, we noticed that you played in the same tables as poker user: “(Player1)”. Also we noticed an unusual play pattern related to username (Player2).
    This pattern involves the funds transferring from his account to your account through the hands played.

    Can you please explain your relation with these usernames?
    Why were you playing in same tables from same internet connection?
    Playing from the same Internet Connection is considered as Collusion Fraud and is reason enough to close your account permanently.

    Please be aware that we keep records of all the hands.
    - NOTE: I have replaced the names of two players on the email with Player1 and Player2. Player1 was my brother. I have absolutely no idea who Player2 was.

    I wrote a response to the email explaining that:
    1) Player1 was my brother, and a simple hand review should show that we had NEVER played in any cash ring games together. I was NOT in the same tables as he was, contrary to the email. Just to be completely transparent: We did once play together in a PLAY money game, for fun, a few weeks back. That is the ONLY time we played hands at a ring table together
    2) I have no idea who Player2 is. If it is someone I have played heads up against at some point, then a review of the hand history should show that I was only playing legitimate poker, and NOT doing any kind of chip dumping or anything else.

    I received no response to the email, and my account is still locked. My brother received a similar email, and had his account locked as well. I have contacted BetOnline support several times for the issue. Their online chat originally told me I would receive a response within 24 hours, but I did not. After that their phone support told me to wait for a reply to my email, but they refused to give any timeframe when I could expect a response. From what I've heard of their frontline support, I'm not even confident that my emails have gotten through to anyone who can help me.

    I know playing from the same IP address was dumb, but I'm being completely honest when I say it did not even occur to me before this that it was a sign of collusion or cheating. The fact alone that I play only heads up should surely be evidence enough to clear me of any collusion suspicions.

    I have been an online poker player for 10 years now, and have NEVER cheated or colluded in any form or fashion. I've tried to be transparent here and include all pertinent information. Believe me there is no "Oh well, actually just this one time we played in a ring game together for only a few hands" or any other such information that I'm deliberately skipping out on. I don't cheat, period. Neither does my brother.

    Please, if anyone has experienced anything similar at this site, or has any advice on what my next steps could be, please let me know as I'm very worried that I'm going to have a lot of money taken from me for an unfair reason.

  2. #2
    tatddy
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    This is not gonna end well.

  3. #3
    secretstash
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    first of all this is in wrong section of forum - http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/

    and u need to fill out a Complain Form.. if ur not lying then justin7 and crew will have a field day with betonline - http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Spor...Complaint.aspx

    -stash
    Points Awarded:

    zzzzzbest gave secretstash 2 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  4. #4
    zzzzzbest
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    Thanks a lot secretstash... first time posting, thought this belonged in the poker section.

  5. #5
    zsr
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    What would even be the benefit of you and your brother colluding while playing heads up unless to clear a bonus but I would imagine the rake would eat that up.

  6. #6
    zzzzzbest
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    I agree that clearing a bonus is the only conceivable thing they could be thinking when sending an accusation like this to a heads up player. Although even that accusation from them would ignore the simple fact that we didn't play against each other. And, we have both cleared our bonuses already

  7. #7
    Justin7
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    Betonline's poker security is a bit amateurish at times. Other players have had security issues, but I think most of them have been paid. If you and your brother never played heads up, and there are no real bonus advantages, you should get your money. If the biggest problem is some bonus issue (and I am not familiar with all the Betonline bonuses), you should still get most of your winnings.

    Fill out a complaint, and we will help you.

  8. #8
    zzzzzbest
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    Thanks a lot Justin, that's comforting. I'm certain we have not committed any kind of bonus or collusion violation. I filed a complaint as suggested and will keep everyone posted.

  9. #9
    zzzzzbest
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    Update: My account is still locked. Have not received a single word of explanation of any type from BetOnline's operations department. I sent another email today begging them to at least give me a response to let me know what is going on. However, they did just unlock my brothers account, so a step in the right direction.

  10. #10
    durito
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    If you have now filed a complaint I would stop contacting them. If they contact you fine, but otherwise let SBR do it.

  11. #11
    zzzzzbest
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    If you have now filed a complaint I would stop contacting them. If they contact you fine, but otherwise let SBR do it.
    Will do. Thx

  12. #12
    skrtelfan
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    These guys are well known for poor poker security procedures and being slow to resolve them. If you search the forum for betonline and poker you will see several other examples of players who did nothing wrong, were told by BetOnline that "We have confirmed fraud and your winnings are confiscated", and BetOnline took weeks to say, gee, we don't have any evidence against you and exonerate the player.

  13. #13
    astro61200
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    It's a shame.. the US blocks reputable sites which forces players to play on the ones where things like this can happen.

  14. #14
    zzzzzbest
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    Quote Originally Posted by skrtelfan View Post
    These guys are well known for poor poker security procedures and being slow to resolve them. If you search the forum for betonline and poker you will see several other examples of players who did nothing wrong, were told by BetOnline that "We have confirmed fraud and your winnings are confiscated", and BetOnline took weeks to say, gee, we don't have any evidence against you and exonerate the player.
    Thanks skrtelfan. Still haven't heard a peep from these guys, so hoping that's the case...

  15. #15
    SharkMerc
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    Hey zzzzzbest this is CopyNinja I have ran into you many times on betonline, they have also froze my account when I tried to cash out for the first time saying that 2 players dumped money in to my account heads up. It is pretty ridiculous because they were just really bad players and I beat them legitly. I have tried emailing the operations and calling them by phone many times but got no help or response, so I am in the same boat as you, really sucks because it was becoming my new poker home.

  16. #16
    Hankwins
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    wow sharkmerc, i play betonline poker all the time and if they ever pull that on me i will become thier worst nightmare.

  17. #17
    SharkMerc
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    Yea I just filed a complaint through here because this is where I heard about bet online poker so hopefully it helps.

  18. #18
    SBR Lou
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    BetOnline reactivated the player's account after their audit. He's good to go.

  19. #19
    KEdge2k
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    Lou -- Have you told BOL that perhaps they should work on their poker issues? This is like the 3-4 guy who has had an issue with BOL Poker that was ultimately resolved in his favor. One or two can be chalked up to misunderstandings, but you start getting higher than that...

  20. #20
    5mike5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEdge2k View Post
    Lou -- Have you told BOL that perhaps they should work on their poker issues? This is like the 3-4 guy who has had an issue with BOL Poker that was ultimately resolved in his favor. One or two can be chalked up to misunderstandings, but you start getting higher than that...
    and thats only the 3-4 SBR knows of....i can only imagine how many they actually try this bs on that doesnt have sbr in their corner

  21. #21
    zzzzzbest
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    Hey All,

    As Lou mentioned above, BetOnline just emailed me an apology, and unlocked the account. I requested a cashout and will let everyone know if it goes through without issue. Thanks a million to Lou and SBR for working through this issue with BetOnline. Thanks also to everyone who gave advice in this post. Can't imagine how long it would have taken otherwise (I really can't, because BetOnline didn't answer a single one of my emails throughout the process to let me know the status)

    The good news is that, as Lou and Justin mentioned, they seem to be genuinely trying to get it right as far as who is trying to cheat other players, and who is just being flagged incorrectly by their software. The bad news is they definitely seem to be real amateurs when it comes to understanding poker, and how to look at a simple hand history to detect if there is fraud or not. And to take such a long time to unlock the account while giving zero feedback is really nerve wracking!

  22. #22
    zzzzzbest
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharkMerc View Post
    Hey zzzzzbest this is CopyNinja I have ran into you many times on betonline, they have also froze my account when I tried to cash out for the first time saying that 2 players dumped money in to my account heads up. It is pretty ridiculous because they were just really bad players and I beat them legitly. I have tried emailing the operations and calling them by phone many times but got no help or response, so I am in the same boat as you, really sucks because it was becoming my new poker home.
    Yes, it's been really nice today without you blocking off all the tables Based on my experience and what I've heard, you don't have to worry about not being paid if you did nothing wrong. But, get ready to wait... and wait some more, until your case is resolved.

  23. #23
    zzzzzbest
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    Hey again everyone,

    Amazingly, there is more... So, when I first deposited my $500 on BetOnline a few weeks ago, I had seen a banner that said basically "type in CCBONUS for a 15% deposit bonus." Ok, so I did it. Forgot about it. And, now that I'm trying to do a cashout, the following conversation has taken place with Betonline support (not verbatim, just my summary of the conversation):

    Me: Hi. I'm contacting you because I tried recently to do a cashout, and my account says I cannot cashout until I do $6500 of sports bets.

    Betonline Support: Yes. This is based on the rollover requirements for the $75 bonus you received. It was in the text of the agreement you read during your deposit.
    Me: When I was making my deposit, I saw a banner that said "+15% bonus" if you type in CCBONUS. That's it. But I don't care. I don't even want the bonus. Can you just cancel that $75 bet I made using the bonus money (which I won) please, and cancel any bonus winnings on my account? I will never be able to meet this rolloever requirement because I'm a poker player, not a sports better. $6500 of sports bets is insane to me.
    Betonline Support: No, you can't. You agreed to the requirements when you made your deposit
    Me: I didn't see any agreement. All I saw was a banner telling me to type a promo code, and I would get a 15% bonus on my deposit, that's it
    Betonline: I'm sorry, you already agreed when you made your first deposit

    Me: (NOT in a rude manner at all) Is there a manager or supervisor I can talk to to try convince them to just cancel the deposit bonus so I can cashout my poker winnings?
    Betonline: Yes, one second (the phone call immediately cancelled)


    At this point, I called betonline three times in a row. All three times, the phone rang once, and there was a "click" as whoever was on the other line hung up on me. (Seriously???) I waited a few minutes, then called back and talked to someone else, who told me that the only way to reach their management was actually via email.
    That's it at this point... I've now emailed their management to request a straight up cancellation of my deposit bonus, as I really don't give a crap about that $68 bet that I won with their bonus funds. Hopefully they will agree to do so. Once again, I'll let everyone know...

  24. #24
    durito
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    They wont cancel it. You will have to make the sports bets. Though that rollover amount is way too high.

  25. #25
    brendon
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    a $6500 rollover requirement on a $75?

  26. #26
    zzzzzbest
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    Yea, apparently that's because they are also counting the rollover bonus for my first deposit of ~$400, even though I lost all that $ before depositing the $500. Hopefully I can at least get that portion of the rollover requirement removed. Hopefully this serves as a warning to fellow poker players not to use the deposit bonus...

  27. #27
    slash
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    Zzzzz - open an account with another bookie and bet both sides to clear that rollover.

    I guess you are from the US so 5dimes could be another bookie.

    Play team A at BOL and play team B at 5dimes. You should be able to clear that rollover pretty quick.

  28. #28
    brendon
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    i was about to post what slash just posted. betonline has pretty high limits, so meeting rollover shouldn't take too long. and good thing its baseball season, clearing shouldn't cost you too much money in juice. oh..and hope the other books win because you might be waiting a few months for your money at betonline

  29. #29
    zzzzzbest
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    Quote Originally Posted by slash View Post
    Zzzzz - open an account with another bookie and bet both sides to clear that rollover.

    I guess you are from the US so 5dimes could be another bookie.

    Play team A at BOL and play team B at 5dimes. You should be able to clear that rollover pretty quick.
    Thx brendon & slash... yea I was thinking something like that might be the only option. Baseball does look less painful than the basketball lines that I was looking at in terms of juice. Or just might have fun with it and bet on some games straight up whenever I have a lucky day at the poker tables...

  30. #30
    princecharles
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzzzzbest View Post
    Yea, apparently that's because they are also counting the rollover bonus for my first deposit of ~$400, even though I lost all that $ before depositing the $500. Hopefully I can at least get that portion of the rollover requirement removed. Hopefully this serves as a warning to fellow poker players not to use the deposit bonus...

    If in fact a balance from a previous deposit had been zeroed out, there should be no 'legacy' of the old rollover.
    Get straight with them on that, as they have tried that before.

    You can file another complaint if they are trying to saddle you with a non existent rollover.

    I also play there often and learned a while ago never to take a deposit bonus from them, as even a sports bettor, the roll is egregiously high.

    Good luck, and if we ever meet up across the virtual felt, please don't river me. :-)

  31. #31
    wtt0315
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    What prince said. You best option is to get them to straighted out the amount of the rollover. Show them you only need to rollover the 75. Find out how much it is and place 4 or 5 straight wagers to equal that amount and get your money out.

  32. #32
    zzzzzbest
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    Thx Charles. I contacted them on the rollover amount, and they said there is an error on their online calculator, but that I should not have a problem cashing out once I reach the actual rollover of $3550. I'm expecting with about 99% probability that I will actually have some kind of issue cashing out, but we'll wait and see.

    I'm going to just meet the rollover by betting $20 straight on the underdog of every baseball game for the next couple weeks. Should be a low variance approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by princecharles View Post
    If in fact a balance from a previous deposit had been zeroed out, there should be no 'legacy' of the old rollover.
    Get straight with them on that, as they have tried that before.

    You can file another complaint if they are trying to saddle you with a non existent rollover.

    I also play there often and learned a while ago never to take a deposit bonus from them, as even a sports bettor, the roll is egregiously high.

    Good luck, and if we ever meet up across the virtual felt, please don't river me. :-)

  33. #33
    durito
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    cash out via p2p o b2b or it will be a pain

  34. #34
    princecharles
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    Quote Originally Posted by durito View Post
    cash out via p2p o b2b or it will be a pain
    Absolutely.
    I would really like to see you get 4 p2p's for 4 weeks in a row, than you going the check route.

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