[Blondie]

BetFred account dispute

BetFred (SBR rating B-) has voided €2,640 from a player. The player tells SBR he deposited €2,020 via Moneybookers, laying it all on a WBA Sunderland match. The player's bet won and his balance sat at €4,660 after day one. BetFred notified the player via email that documents needed to be provided to verify his identity. The player claims to have sent everything requested - ID, proof of address and the like. The player received an email from BetFred a day later stating that they are unsatisfied with the clarity of the documents and that his winnings will not be paid. The player attached a chat transcript with a BetFred operative:

BetFred CS: It states in the terms and conditions that if you are not happy with your documents or if you do not send documents in time then we will cancel the bet.
Player: what does it mean
Player: for you enough documents
Player: I have sent to you everything you want
Player: ID,proof of address,screenshot
BetFred CS: Yes, but we are not happy with them.
Player: with my moneybookers
Player: why?
Player: Why are you not happy
Player: so you can do everything you want
Player: this includes to steal the money from people
BetFred CS: We have done no such thing we will be sending the 2020 back to mooneybookers shortly.
Player: I want my 4660 EUR
Player: I want my winnings
BetFred CS: you are not entitled to this

Players in need of sportsbook assistance are asked to fill out a sportsbook complaint form.

[Santo]

Theres clearly something wrong with that log -- it's been modified by somebody..

Player: this includes to steal the money from people
Player: We have done no such thing we will be sending the 2020 back to mooneybookers shortly.
Player: I want my 4660 EUR

[chachi]

theres more than just that log snippet that has a strange whiff to it ...

[SBR Lou]

Theres clearly something wrong with that log -- it's been modified by somebody..

Right - we removed the player's name and agent's name from each line. One line was erroneously marked "Player".

[fixxer]

Wow, unbelievable.

There MUST be something other fact in this, which we don't know - because if this chat is real, Betfred is not a professional bookie we can trust...

[Hareeba!]

Wow, unbelievable.

There MUST be something other fact in this, which we don't know - because if this chat is real, Betfred is not a professional bookie we can trust...

the player was sprung for submitting false ID

[SBR Lou]

We spoke with BetFred's head of fraud. We can share that the player's ID was proven to be forged, but agreed not to break it down further than that. BetFred clarifies that in normal circumstances (non-forged IDs), if a doc is unclear, they will ask for a higher resolution scan. That wasn't the case here.

BetFred acted fairly.

[tommygun]

Why would the player send in a forged document not the original?

[dikefale]

Does anybody really believe that player forged ID? That is total BS.

[Gallin]

Does anybody really believe that player forged ID? That is total BS.

You'd be surprised how common it is among bonus abusers and professional arbers.

Would be interesting to know if they would've refunded his/her deposit had the bet lost.

[Hareeba!]

Does anybody really believe that player forged ID? That is total BS.

how on earth would you have enough information to come to that conclusion?

are you saying that Lou is so naive as to just believe them without having been given a truly convincing explanation?

[dikefale]

What is explanation? Explain me how they come to conclusion that he/she forged ID!

[chachi]

many IDs (passports/national IDs/etc) have checksums or valid/invalid numeric sequences which are easily spotted by those who deal with these things for a living.

[Ruifgalmeida]

of course it is forget, is name on the forum was frankie is name on betfred was jane

[virtozo]

still is unclear why anyone will risk 2000+ euro on a fake ID?? for an arb?

[SBR Lou]

how on earth would you have enough information to come to that conclusion? are you saying that Lou is so naive as to just believe them without having been given a truly convincing explanation?

What is explanation? Explain me how they come to conclusion that he/she forged ID!

many IDs (passports/national IDs/etc) have checksums or valid/invalid numeric sequences which are easily spotted by those who deal with these things for a living.

We weren't told, we saw the evidence first-hand, as well as how the ID was proven to be a fake. We really can't go into more detail than that both because we promised not to, and because it would be totally irresponsible to for the sake of the industry.

[chachi]

No worries Lou ... I was FSA registered for many years in a prior life and was responsible for KYC efforts and all that for financial trading and large customer accounts.

I know some of the tricks and methods to vet passports and such but of course know better than to say anything besides what I did

[brettels]

Might be best to just lock these threads after case closed to stop those 1 liners bumping nonsense. How many times does the result have to be told?

[franky]

are you crazy, fake ID, I am from Bulgaria, there is no bonus given to bulgarian customers, how to make arbs on WBA - Sunderland... Do yuo believe Lou and Betfred that I am so stupid to give fake ID, my ID is scanned and IT IS NOT FORGED! I am just thinking right now of whole SBR activity here and the relations with betfred. Lou, one question - Do you want to send you my ID and after that I want to tell me where is the fake, why is my ID forged, I can take a picture with me and my ID if you want, but offcourse - there is no NEED! We have to believe in Betfred, we have to believe that I am the scammer!!! You are so pathetic!

[franky]

Lou, you dont want to talk with me... You dont answer my emails, my chat, nothing.. Lou I know that I will never get my money from Betfred, BUT dont tell everyone including all people here who knows so many things about bookies, who really tried to help me, dont tell that I am scammer, that my ID is forged, dont tell that please. I am not scammer, if you can not help me, just say that you can not help me, but dont tell me that I am a scammer.

[chachi]

franky / jane / blondie / gnome / whomever you are ...

thanks for stopping by, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out

[dikefale]

Ok thanx Lou i didnt doubt in your decision. Very funny "Jane" from Bulgaria hahahah

[laconic]

I understand the deposit was through Moneybookers. Does the merchant have problems with that account also?

[han]

are you crazy, fake ID, I am from Bulgaria, there is no bonus given to bulgarian customers, how to make arbs on WBA - Sunderland... Do yuo believe Lou and Betfred that I am so stupid to give fake ID, my ID is scanned and IT IS NOT FORGED! I am just thinking right now of whole SBR activity here and the relations with betfred. Lou, one question - Do you want to send you my ID and after that I want to tell me where is the fake, why is my ID forged, I can take a picture with me and my ID if you want, but offcourse - there is no NEED! We have to believe in Betfred, we have to believe that I am the scammer!!! You are so pathetic!

from my experience Betfred don't want to pay.
for all the UK bookmakers 2000 euros are a lot of money and they'll find an excuse.
send your ID to the Betfred's town police office.
say to them Betfred is accusing you of forged ID.
that's your only chance.
you can go and to the BG police and ask them to prove your ID is real.

[han]

We spoke with BetFred's head of fraud. We can share that the player's ID was proven to be forged, but agreed not to break it down further than that. BetFred clarifies that in normal circumstances (non-forged IDs), if a doc is unclear, they will ask for a higher resolution scan. That wasn't the case here.

BetFred acted fairly.

this is bullsh.t
Why then Bet365 didn't want to pay me?
I sent ID plus a photo of me holding ID and Bet365 still refused to pay!!!

I had to send my ID to the UK police to confirm the authenticity of my ID.

conclusion: UK bookmakers always use ID checks to STEAL from players.
they say your ID is not OK and voila-the player get robbed.

[han]

We spoke with BetFred's head of fraud. We can share that the player's ID was proven to be forged, but agreed not to break it down further than that. BetFred clarifies that in normal circumstances (non-forged IDs), if a doc is unclear, they will ask for a higher resolution scan. That wasn't the case here.

BetFred acted fairly.

unbelievable bullsh.t
why would anyone with forged ID deposit 2000 euros to place a bet?(there's no bonus here)
he can bet on this match anywhere on the internet and in shops in his country.

[durito]

I have been told more than once by euro books that my id is fake and it's not, so let's not just assume their anti-fraud people have any idea of what they are doing.

[durito]

Were they planning on refunding the deposit if the bet lost? They should pay.

[KEdge2k]

Were they planning on refunding the deposit if the bet lost? They should pay.

I have to agree here. How did BetFred accept the moneybookers transfer if this was a customer they didn't want (have to assume that to be the case given the fact that they rejected the player for impersonating another individual) and more importantly, if this bet loses, are they going to refund the deposit? I have no personal experience with BetFred so I don't know, but most of the time I tend to think that a lot of people wouldn't refund a deposit when someone takes a clear shot at them like this.

[fixxer]

I understand that SBR cannot give us any further details on the exact method of the fraud. I still would be interested in the reason behind this? Why would anybody deposit this big money to a bookmaker with using a false ID, and proving it with false/forget/etc... documents - if no bonus/arb/errorous odds were involved?
Instead of depositing under his/her name, his/her id, to a bookmaker with better oddses? (Pinnacle for example)

I only can think, that the "Player" stole somebody's CC to make this deposit via moneybookers (or an errorous odds maybe?), or stole somebody's ID, because he/she wasn't of a legal age to bet...still, it'd be nice to hear some reasoning from SBR, what was behind the story (again, not HOW he/she cheated, but why?)....