[tomcowley]

Betonline's is even worse. If the player uses the freeplay early and hits a decent score, they can close the account, reduce by the freeplay and the winnings, and quite possibly steal the entire deposit. Even if the freeplay loses, they can steal a good chunk of the deposit. It's beyond a freeroll- it's a guaranteed win.

[BeatTheJerk]

This bonus policy lets Betonline freeroll players. If they are going to cut you off, the only effect of this freeplay is you get less when you cash out than if you took no bonus.

Their bonus rule in this case is abusive. I'd once again ask that Betonline take a close look at its rules, its business practices, and where it hopes to be in 5 years. Any book pulling this crap is bush league. I cannot recommend this book to anyone.

BetEd was just downgraded to a C+ due to its freeroll tactics. Betonline's practice is just as bad - if this dispute cannot be resolved, I'd once again vote to put them around a "C" rating.

Excellence post Justin7 now lets get these guys downgraded and off the recommended list as fast as it can be done, because I know things don't just change over night. PS : I will not play with them anymore , Greek, 5dimes are my top 2 now I will have to search for a 3rd fav because Betonline has been removed form it.

[dark star]

Calling this place a mickey mouse operation is far too kind!!

[Mudcat]

I request that this thread be copied to the Players Talk forum.

[Dark Horse]

BetEd was just downgraded to a C+ due to its freeroll tactics. Betonline's practice is just as bad - if this dispute cannot be resolved, I'd once again vote to put them around a "C" rating.

Fully agree with the downgrades.

But c'mon. Scamming players out of money and just a slap on the wrist from B- to C+?

Wasn't that once considered D book behavior?

[Justin7]

Fully agree with the downgrades.

But c'mon. Scamming players out of money and just a slap on the wrist from B- to C+?

Wasn't that once considered D book behavior?

The BetEd situation isn't over yet. There could be further adjustments.

[pimike]

I never did trust them. Made a post months ago about this. The connection to BetOnSports.

Whats the connection?

[DukeJohn]

I am very interested in what will happen here... I too have over $22k left in my roll over with them... I would hate to get close and they just decide to take some of my funds away... It is sad to hear a book rated this high and customers are having to worry so much about their funds. Hopefully, everything will work out and it was a misunderstanding... lol... well a man can dream.

[pimike]

Sickler said they were connected with BOS I want to know HOW????

[JoeVig]

Could BOL be the next Cascade? For now they are no-paying bonus players, how long until they just stop paying anyone?

Cascade was A rated until very near the end, and then it was a quick fall from grace and too late for many players to do anything about it. Was also right around the end of football season when many players take their stake home or move it around.

History has a way of repeating itself. If you aren't suck in a WR situation, I would seriously limit my exposure to this place.

[sickler]

Whats the connection?

I posted a link earlier in the thread, but since nobody wants to click it, I'll try to c&p it. Read it and draw your own conclusions:


betonline.com hits the headlines


The bettingmarket.com sportsbook of the year 2007 is the Panamanian based Betonline.Com. It wins the award, not for its innovative lines, added value or customer service, but rather, for its ability to make the headlines and to divide loyalties. The newsflow that has surrounded the company has cast a long shadow over the entire offshore online gambling industry. The manner in which this newsflow has been reported calls into question the independence and objectivity of the gambling industry portals that present themselves as industry watchdogs. If ever there was a case for legalising online gambling in the US, here it is.


So what is the score with the offshore operator Betonline.Com?
Borne out of a merger between BestlineSports and BetOnline.com, and operating out of Panamanian-based offices, the company has something of a colourful history, to say the least.
Associates of Gambino family member Frank "The Bear" Basto, Joseph P. Fafone and Joseph J. Fafone were charged with acting as agents on behalf of Bestlinesports.com. Both faced state bookmaking charges for collecting bets and making cash payoffs locally on wagers placed in Costa Rica via toll-free telephone and internet website links.
Bestlinesports was then listed in an indictment in the case of United States District Court of Eastern District of Missouri vs. BetonSports.com, as a website that was owned by Betonsports; a charge the company denined.
More recently, US authorities broke up a large betting ring, charging more than two dozen members or associates of the Lucchese crime family with running the multibillion-dollar operation. It has been alleged that bettors were given passwords for various offshore Web sites, including betonline.com and bigactionsports.com.
Betonline receives a Sportsbook Review (SBR) Overall Rating of A-. The SBR website states that BetOnline earned its position "through hard work, innovation and experience".
SBR provides its users with a potted history of the website, stating that it began taking wagers online as BestLineSports in Costa Rica in 2001, before moving to Panama in July of 2004. The company then expanded its business and by 2006 had moved into one of the industry's top facilities where it employed over 300 Panamanian citizens. It subsequently purchased BetOnline Sportsbook and its website name BetOnline.com. Regarding the company's strategy SBR states;
"Experienced players who make many wagers will be pleased with the savings from the -105 program while the NFL Sunday bettor will enjoy making his first bets with house money in the form of free plays. BetOnline is a good choice for the new or experienced bettor, especially those seeking relatively high wagering limits. BetOnline also excels in phone wagering but reduced juice by phone is not offered."
Gambling911 recently wrote that following their appearance at CAP Bahamas this summer, represented by Jodi Klein, Betonline has propelled itself to become one of the top affiliate converters in the industry;
"One of the reasons could be BetOnLine's better-than-average industry *********** acceptance rates. The company, Gambling911.com's second longest tenured sponsor, focuses almost exclusively on the North American sports betting market, offering -105 juice online (meaning instead of paying the typical $1.10 to win $1.00 on favorites, customers at BetOnLine.com only need to risk $1.05 to win $1.00, which adds up tremendously over time)......There are countless ways of attaining greatness, but any road to reaching one's maximum potential must be built on a bedrock of respect for the individual, a commitment to excellence, and a rejection of mediocrity," comments Gambling911.com Senior Editor Payton O'Brien. "Over the past year, BetOnLine.com has accomplished this feat with uncompromised passion and consistency.""
In Sepetmeber 2007 the online gambling portal The onlinewire downgraded Betonline to high risk, with caution advised; "due to adverse feedbacks on some individuals directly involved with the operation." The website stated that its sources in Costa Rica and Panama had recently confirmed the direct involvement of Dalton Wagner, formerly MVPSportsbook/Betonsports, with Betonline. The same sources also allegedly confirmed the direct involvement with Betonline of one, or more, of the former managers of the failed BetPanam operation;
"Betonline was born under the wrong star, its first marketing steps assisted by the infamous Robbie M\*\*\*\*\*\*. M\*\*\*\*\*\* is a con artist well known in Costa Rica and abroad due to his involvement in several scam operations that stiffed dozens of unsuspecting bettors....In the first months of 2007 Betonline announced the sale, or merger, with BestLineSports. BLS officially merged into Betonline to improve its internet marketing performance....In reality the move was dictated by much more serious concerns. BestLineSports was originally operated by some individuals directly tied to the shadiest businesses of Gary Kaplan (Betonsports). Allegations according to which BestLineSports was catering part of the credit business tied to the Gambino mob family lead U.S. prosecutors to name BestLineSports.com in the Betonsports Indictment of July 2006."
From the online gambling portal EOG; Originally Posted by Almost Allright; "Betonline.com? Shrink, is this the book you were talking about last week to be careful with? If i recall, the business model of reduced juice and a high amount of credit customers was the cause for concern. Also is this the same book SBR has at A-"
The Shrink responded; "YES!!!!! I have been WARNING POSTERS for quite awhile to stay away from them...That A- rating is not the same you'd expect from other A rated books like Matchbook, etc....This is nothing new as I have said this repeatedly..."Trusted bettors were given passwords for various Web sites, including BETONLINE.COM and bigactionsports.com, and for an 800 number. The bets were then routed to a wire room -- a bookkeeping center -- in Costa Rica.""Other bets were placed by phone or in person with agents, also known as "package holders," responsible for overseeing groups of bettors. It was the agents who collected and paid out cash, in some cases using VIOLENCE or the THREAT OF VIOLENCE on those unable to make good on their debts." Name me any other A rated books who behave like this?"
A ceratin Michael Cash posting at the online gambling portal MajorWager had this to say regarding Betonline.com;
"I just got back from BetOnline and I can say they are making a push to be a top tier book by this time next year. I met with some of their people and affiliates and they were one of the most impressive places I went on my trip. BP is correct they are bestline and they bought the players and name from betonline and absorbed them in. They are doing some pretty strong numbers over there. Also, the banking in Panama is way better because of the canal. Both Betonline and Legendz where I also went are reporting none of the problems that the CR books are."
A person calling himself Wilheim, Head Moderator, at the online gambling portal therx.com recently wrote;
"I just called BetOnline.com in Panama and spoke to management and there is absolutely no connection with the Betonline.com mentioned in the article (or any individuals mentioned in the article) above and their book which is 100% post up and licensed fully to operate in Panama. Right now at BetOnline.com it is business as usual and I am certain that there is no connection between the two names. Remember BetOnline.com recently changed their name from Bestlinesports.com for the simple reason of seach engine accessability. The book is solid and remains an excellent out for any Rxer to have funds posted at."
Whatever the real truth about Betonline.Com (and truth is a commodity in short supply when it comes to the offshore gambling industry), one thing that is ceratin, is that we shall be hearing a lot more about betonline.com over the forthcoming year.
The current extradition treaty between the United States and Panama was signed in 1904, and contains a limited list of extraditable offenses. However, Panama is a party to the 1988 UN Drug Convention, through which narcotics trafficking and related money laundering are deemed to be included as extraditable offenses under the bilateral extradition treaty. Moreover, Panama has continually demonstrated a willingness to surrender fugitives to the United States; making use of legal alternatives to extradition in order to effect the return of non-Panamanians to the United States to face trial. The Departments of Justice continues to engage with the Government of Panama to ensure that all fugitives are brought to justice.

copyright © bettingmarket.com; all rights reserved
Sunday, 29 April 2007 at 10:02 AM

[sickler]

Didn't paste all that perfect. Link is here if you want a tidier read:

http://www.bettingmarket.com/bestlinesports.htm

[Bill Dozer]

I believe I am around 82% of the way through their non-industry standard rollover -- I'm not sure exactly, I'm not very good at "Panamanian Math". That would be about 93% of a normal 8x rollover.

There are no industry standards for promotions. When free-plays first came out in favor of cash, people called that "non industry standard" and a scam until it became the norm. Counting the lesser of the risk/win amount was considered "nonstandard" and even a scam... until Pinnacle and others added it to their rules. Then there were backend freeplays where the player is made to understand that the book gets to wait until he meets the requirement but there was no roll thereafter. 5Dimes went with that one. Players have to accept that BetOnline applies its roll to, and considers the bonus to be, the FP winnings. As "nonstandard" as it is and as much as it upsets the most vocal type of player, that's the way they handle their promo. That means, like other bonuses but to a greater extent, how you use it makes a difference.

Their current position is to confiscate $7,150 which is the free play + winnings. Which is absurd. Even if they were valid in taking away the bonus, you would just take the winnings, not the lost free play amount. This amounts to 46.3% of the total winnings on the account.

If they want to take 20% of the free play winnings ($530) fine, that's not right, but I'd rather have my money than keep it with these people.

Of course the book can't take away the winnings and freeplay out of the balance. I'd be curious to hear how that was broken down for you but that would make anyone upset to hear. It's been standard for mgt to cashout the player after lines mgt shuts them down so again, I don't think you will have any surprises in the end here. We will follow up as well.

edit: Reading your email, it appears they gave you a figure different than you have but didn't say they were taking the freeplay+winnings or break it down for you. So, will have to see what number they have and why.

[reno cool]

In a case like this what makes one a target? Simply betting large sums and not losing? That doesn't make a lot of sense....Maybe some sort of betting patterns, there must be ways to get around this.

[Dark Horse]

Players may bet both sides of the same game at different books, and at lines where they can't lose. If Pinny is one of those books, the other low juice book is usually the one paying.

[darrell74]

Over a year ago, I dried up an account with them

Then I wen to reload, and they wanted a $2000 minimum, to reload.

[durito]

Update:

As per Katstale's prediction they will now re-open my account under their "rules and limits" and let me try and meet the rollover.

I guess I don't need SBR's help anymore.

[durito]

Players may bet both sides of the same game at different books, and at lines where they can't lose. If Pinny is one of those books, the other low juice book is usually the one paying.

My BetOnline account is -110/-110.

[Mudcat]

There are no industry standards for promotions. When free-plays first came out in favor of cash, people called that "non industry standard" and a scam until it became the norm. Counting the lesser of the risk/win amount was considered "nonstandard" and even a scam... until Pinnacle and others added it to their rules. Then there were backend freeplays where the player is made to understand that the book gets to wait until he meets the requirement but there was no roll thereafter. 5Dimes went with that one. Players have to accept that BetOnline applies its roll to, and considers the bonus to be, the FP winnings. As "nonstandard" as it is and as much as it upsets the most vocal type of player, that's the way they handle their promo. That means, like other bonuses but to a greater extent, how you use it makes a difference.

I agree with all that. That stuff isn't why BOL is earning the scam label for themselves. It's the other stuff they are continually trying to pull.

[katstale]

Update:

As per Katstale's prediction they will now re-open my account under their "rules and limits" and let me try and meet the rollover.

I guess I don't need SBR's help anymore.

Another case successfully adjudicated. NEXT!!!!

Who says BOL and SBR don't work together to resolve these difficult scenarios to everyone's satisfaction??

[katstale]

My prediction is eventually you will want to free up that hostage money and you will pay the extortion money to free it.

[xyz]

How small did they make your limits per bet? Is it a reasonable number of bets that you have to make to meet the rollover? Thanks for the info.

Update:

As per Katstale's prediction they will now re-open my account under their "rules and limits" and let me try and meet the rollover.

I guess I don't need SBR's help anymore.

[durito]

My prediction is eventually you will want to free up that hostage money and you will pay the extortion money to free it.

I'm not paying $7,000 to get it. If they would offer something reasonable I might.

edit: i can log in now. i'll try and bet. perhaps i'll make a video

[Peep]

I really fail to see how SBR Staff (BILL) can't see what a ripoff it is to cut a man's bets down from 1K to $100 and still expect him to do rollover.

If nothing else, it steals his TIME. Time is money in this business like anyone elses. SBR SHOULD take the stand that Tom and others have made, which is

"If you cut a man's limit down to 1/10th of what you gave him when he made his deposit, the terms under which he deposited, you should cut his rollover down to 1/10th as well".

[durito]

My limits are not as small as the other dispute from a few weeks ago. At least on straight bets. I just have no interest in making straight bets with a 90 second delay.

[durito]

The delay is only running about 30 seconds right now. Better than saturday when it was so long it was timing me out of the site.

[Mudcat]

perhaps i'll make a video

You know, I see people on the forum talking about making videos all the time and I don't think I've ever watched one.

That one, I would watch.

[Mudcat]

I request that this thread be copied to the Players Talk forum.

Apparently it was REQUEST DENIED!!

[Calsport]

I don't know how to search the archives but if you want to dig it up I led a complaint about BetOnline around 11/28 - early Dec. They turned my $12k deposit plus $23k in FP winnings into over a 400K rollover by this "Panamanian math".

This is the exact same crap all over again. Justin agreeing with me and Bill smoothing it over....some things never change.

[durito]

I remember your thread Calsport and I referenced it in my complaint.

My biggest problem with this all is not their ridiculous rollover rule or their limits. It's that they ("upper management" to use their terms) purposely tried to take a shot at me yesterday and only backed down when I threatened to complain to SBR.

I am going to complete this rollover limits and delays aside here pretty soon. I expect a full prompt payout, but I strongly recommend no one play at this book.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

It's that they ("upper management" to use their terms) purposely tried to take a shot at me yesterday and only backed down when I threatened to complain to SBR.

I wonder what would have happened if not for the SBR contact+ bad publicity.

Actually, I don't wonder at all. What would have happened is the theft they initially tried.

[purecarnagge]

I really think if a book is going to cut your limits you should be allowed to cash out for your available balance at that time no questions asked. Its obvious the book doesn't want the business so let them leave...but they don't want to watch the money go either...

[katstale]

I am way up for the video on this.

My humble suggestions:

1) Couple of hot Colombian chicks as props (hanging on your every point like they are gonna get a green card when the shoot is done) and have them throw in a few "si popi's",

2) Some big flow charts so you can properly explain Panamanian math,

3) Several bags of popular snack chips laying around so maybe you can pick up some endorsement money (product placement) if this gets picked up heavy on utube

Keep the f bombs to a minimum.

I can't wait.

[tomcowley]

Agreed. The purpose of rollover is to ensure that the player gives the book a certain amount of action so that he's expected to lose back some amount of money. In the (probably vast) majority of cases, the book wants the player to keep giving action above and beyond rollover. When the book is afraid of the player and actively doesn't want to book enough action for the player to meet rollover, it's illogical that the book can make any kind of claim that the player hasn't given them enough action while at the same time stating that they don't want his action.

[THE_LOCKSMITH]

As for BOL being on the recommended list, i think there should be a bigger emphasis put on the SBR Posters Poll for the top sportsbooks

Matchbook
Bet Jam
Greek
Pinnacle
5 Dimes

edit: many are the same on bothe lists with BOL, Legendz not rated on Posters polls.