[neverstoppers23]

I have used intertops and bodog with no problems. Hell the first 5 spins playing bodogs 7 strple slots i won the grand prize. i was playing 25 cents only at the time so i won 700 dollars.

[LordVodka]

Did Betjamaica use the same software?

[mighty maron]

http://www.blrtech.com/gaming.html

Is where you can try the demos. On the bottom of the page is the software i question. I think 5d had this one http://www.blrtech.com/Demo/BOSSWage....aspx?SSC=1000

I havent played craps on 5dimes in the cashback casino since August or Sept. it was either that one or the "international" one that doesnt work now on the site.

Try it out. I would reproduce that persons expirements but have to work today....

[mighty maron]

Ok I did 65 straight no pass bets from the blr tech demo link. A roll of 6-6 is a wash on the first roll so I did not count that. with 500 demo chips starting and each no pass one bet ; at the end of the 65 no pass bets I was up to 511 in play chips. That would come to 38 NP and 27 Pass in such a short frame. I ran out of time as I have to get ready for work now. I was never down below 496 straight betting. I did not go on any heaters say 8 np in a row. It was just steady upwards. I wish I had time to do 500 no pass bets.

I dont know what level of control the software gives nor if 5d or an outside third party hard control of this. 5dimes does host third party vendors like their online poker (ran I think by true poker) and their live casino (I think is shared amongst the other big sites with a third party). We also know that in the bonus casino the paytables can be adjusted by 5dimes and are...(an example would be their over 100 percent promo games during the week)

In the cashback casino, I have played craps and got instantly oblierated. I played no pass just like the op did. My plays were back in August... http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/casino/117...ino-sucks.html
After a few painful sessions, I just stayed away from the rebate/cashback casino. It felt like you were a native charging a infantry line armed with a piece of sharpened fruit. You got cut to ribbons.

In the bonus casino, I mostly played craps and I am up lifetime on my account in the bonus casino thanks to craps. To the tune of 1k to 2k. Call me silly or berate me, but the bonus casino feels like you have a fighting chance.

So does anyone know...in the end...whether the BLR software was faulty in its origin or was the paytable (rng) tweaked by 5d or a third party vendor they went thru. Anybody?

[Scooter]

SBR Lou - "You may have missed this post from Bill:


Originally Posted by Bill Dozer
'Legends does use BLR software user interface but does not use the BLR RNG. They used hardware random number generators, similar to what the largest poker sites use. If wizard of odds was to check that version, they should find it is truly random.'


Why would Legends have used BLR software but not the BLR RNG, prior to the Wizard's article coming out?

What reason would they have had to not use the entire package?

If they felt the RNG was suspect, why wouldn't they have used a different company for a software/RNG package?

[mighty maron]

In the past 5dimes ruled that paytables in their casino in which the player had virtually no chance to lose the winnings could be forefitted. Here is the tackleberry thread http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbook...-winnings.html

If memory serves one of the payouts...I beleive the Jacks or better paid at 370 % or some off the wall chart number. The op filed a complaint and SBR ruled that 5dimes position of taking back the winnings was fair. Old news but brought up for the purpose for the following.

BLR Craps http://wizardofodds.com/casinos/blr-tech.html In it the op betting just no pass (near coin flip bet) won roughly 25 percent of the 3200 bets he made. He has posted video proof of this on youtube.

Now in the first case...the winnings were taken because basically the bad table meant he was freerolling...his funds were not really at risk if he had a large enough bankroll. The BLR Craps case...Were the house funds ever at risk when you are paying out 25 percent of a bet that normally pays out near 49 percent of the time. Is the house freerolling the player like the player was freerolling the house in the 32k video poker case? if the house was freerolling, should the house winnings be voided and returned.


Opinions please....I have to go to work so I wont be able to look at this thread for a while.

[robmpink]

SBR Lou - "You may have missed this post from Bill:


Originally Posted by Bill Dozer
'Legends does use BLR software user interface but does not use the BLR RNG. They used hardware random number generators, similar to what the largest poker sites use. If wizard of odds was to check that version, they should find it is truly random.'


Why would Legends have used BLR software but not the BLR RNG, prior to the Wizard's article coming out?

What reason would they have had to not use the entire package?

If they felt the RNG was suspect, why wouldn't they have used a different company for a software/RNG package?

This.

[boymimbo]

Of course, the casinos should give back ALL players their losings at the BLR casinos as a gesture of good faith. The casinos should also pay the money to have the BLR software verified and certified by a gaming consultant. Of course I doubt this will happen. The theoretical loss at the game for good bets is 1.41% for pass, 1.36% for don't pass, and between 1.52 and 6.67% for place bets. BLR's software was changing the edge to a good 46.7% in the case of the OP at WOV's experiences. Crazy.

[lukahh]

No need to say but - no player will get anything back.

If you must use online casino - use the live one. better yet, go to vegas once a year with limited budget.

[DarkMage]

Nice article from the wizard.

http://wizardofodds.com/casinos/blr-tech.html


IMO

Legends needs to refund all player losses in the casino or be downgraded to a scam book.

'Legends does use BLR software user interface but does not use the BLR RNG. They used hardware random number generators, similar to what the largest poker sites use. If wizard of odds was to check that version, they should find it is truly random.'

yes, you use a rigged software package but use your own RNG...LOL

Who is going to buy this story? A company looking for fair games would not use a rigged software package and put a real RNG in because they know one day someone would test the software at a different casino, find it to be rigged and then group you in with the rigged casinos. A very shortsighted decision on their part. How cheap is the BLR software package anyway LOL!


Don't buy the LIES downgrade every sportsbook that uses this software to F or the rating is meaningless.

[DarkMage]

The more I think about it the emails I exchanged between Legends and myself while people were testing BLR software had no mention at all that they were using a "different" RNG. In fact they grouped themselves with the software and said the people that were posting their findings were "irresponsible"


Quite a stark contrast to them using a "different" rng.

[5mike5]

crazy how many people actually waste money in an online casino...very sad

[boymimbo]

Someone will just have to test the Legends platform.

[yokspot]

every online casino is rigged....would have to be a total fool to play these games and think they arent rigged...thats just common sense

ALL CASINOS online are rigged.

(...and several other such comments)


What a lot of misinformation and nonsense. Very few are.

Some software has been shown to be rigged. The vast majority, and certainly the major providers (Microgaming, Playtech etc) are fair. I have a bucketload of experience to attest to this.

Avoid unknown providers used by dodgy Costa Rican sportsbooks, and you should be fine.

[boymimbo]

How is a sportsbook bettor who has consistently been treated by the book fairly supposed to realize that Legends, WorldWide, (and up until two days ago, 5 Dimes) is running a rogue casino, especially when the other on-line casinos run by Micro and Playtech have certified as being fair?

It really brings up unfairness in online gambling overall. There is plenty of debate of whether online gaming is fair, and thanks to a great deal of diligence by third party watchers, the industry has been cleaned up, alot. Now, we find such an obvious bias and the sportsbooks involved are mum.

Sure, 5 Dimes removed its Cash Back casino but do you think at all that they are in the process of giving people money back for their money lost at the Craps game there? They should, and they should be also telling people the whole story of their relationship with BLR and how 5 Dimes allowed the site to rip off its customers and how they are remedying the issue. Meanwhile, Legends continues their story with denial and Worldwide has been mum. The bias was found at both WorldWide and 5 Dimes (Cash Back) casinos. And Legends will be tested and found that their story is untrue.

Edit: CasinoMeister has just rogued Legends and WorldWide.

[mighty maron]

Edit: CasinoMeister has just rogued Legends and WorldWide.

I find this action to be over the top. Legends has provided a plausible explanation that they use a different RNG.

The version tested in the youtube videos and the version where the data was collected was the 5dimes casino. 5dimes took down the casino.

Until the version on Legends is tested in the same manner, I would give the benefit of the doubt to a class organization like Legends. I beleive this rogue classification was a rush to judgment and reckless.

Just my two cents

[boymimbo]

No. the UTube version was collected at WorldWide (wager.dm). The Wizard's test was at 5 Dimes and got the same results. 5 Dimes has yet to refund any losing players who played previously on their software as far as I know.

Legends response doesn't make any sense. The RNG only feeds the random number into the program. The software program is what translates the number into the dice result, and it is clear that the dice result was skewed, on two of the three sites using BLR software.

[mighty maron]

No. the UTube version was collected at WorldWide (wager.dm). The Wizard's test was at 5 Dimes and got the same results. 5 Dimes has yet to refund any losing players who played previously on their software as far as I know.

Legends response doesn't make any sense. The RNG only feeds the random number into the program. The software program is what translates the number into the dice result, and it is clear that the dice result was skewed, on two of the three sites using BLR software.

I thought that 5dimes refunded the wizard. He mentioned it in his thread on this on his site. I got a two line email from 5dimes. "The decision taken by our management is that we are not going to offer the Cashback casino in our website anymore. Regarding your losses, those will not be returned"

Im not going to fight this decision. 5dimes has treated me well. In the bonus casino I am up a lot more than I am down. In the cashback casino I suffered losses and played just craps no pass. Theres no winning this and if I push I will lose my account. I like 5dimes way too much to protest this for a minimal amount.

The software is pulled. Its done.

[boymimbo]

Hopefully for 5dimes most players will be as accepting as you. A ripoff is a ripoff. I guess if you're okay walking into your local car dealership and having them tell you: "we know those tires on your car were faulty but we're not going to refund you for them. Please buy another one of our cars".

Or to be more direct, walking into a casino and being told by management, "one of our games is rigged. We're not going to tell you which one nor are we going to to help you should you lose at that table".

I'm not okay with that.

[mighty maron]

Hopefully for 5dimes most players will be as accepting as you. A ripoff is a ripoff. I guess if you're okay walking into your local car dealership and having them tell you: "we know those tires on your car were faulty but we're not going to refund you for them. Please buy another one of our cars".

Or to be more direct, walking into a casino and being told by management, "one of our games is rigged. We're not going to tell you which one nor are we going to to help you should you lose at that table".

I'm not okay with that.

You have to be okay with it because in truth theres nothing one can do. The money is lost. 5dimes came to their decision. Do you think that theres any reasonable action I can take to make them change their mind? There isnt. Pushing the issue, asking them again, or pestering them is counterproductive to me and them. Its done...adjust and move on.

[boymimbo]

Yeah, you can take your business elsewhere. SBR can push their ranking down a bit. It's not done - they STOLE your money in the past and they are not going to refund you. That's wrong. They may have done the right thing by taking the casino down when the issue was advertised, but they still are responsible (or BLR is) for cheating players at supposedly a fair game.

Or maybe I'll sell some tainted beef, find out about it later and not bother refunding the customers when they return the recalled product. It's wrong.

Or it's like taking Buffalo this weekend at -2. Buffalo wins by 3, and when you login, your bet mysteriously now says -4, and you lose, even though you have an email confirming your bet at -2.

[AL1322]

funny i checked my legends account to see if they indeed gave money back..and i got $3.30 lmao..so i played 3 $1 hands of blackjack...and lost all 3 lmao dealer 19,19,20

[mighty maron]

Yeah, you can take your business elsewhere. SBR can push their ranking down a bit. It's not done - they STOLE your money in the past and they are not going to refund you. That's wrong. They may have done the right thing by taking the casino down when the issue was advertised, but they still are responsible (or BLR is) for cheating players at supposedly a fair game.

Or maybe I'll sell some tainted beef, find out about it later and not bother refunding the customers when they return the recalled product. It's wrong.

Or it's like taking Buffalo this weekend at -2. Buffalo wins by 3, and when you login, your bet mysteriously now says -4, and you lose, even though you have an email confirming your bet at -2.

Anyone that goes on these sites from the USA have no repercussions. Maybe in areas like the UK where there is regulation; but the sites that service the USA are unregulated. The only issue that really keeps any of them in line is reputation.

5dimes has built a reputation over the years as a top site. What one person says or does not say will not affect them nor the industry. I prefer to believe that they did not know about the BLR software. My world runs better this way and I dont risk losing my 5dimes account fighting a battle over a small amount.

Its the wild west for USA servicing sportsbooks without the western justice.

[FourLengthsClear]

Anyone that goes on these sites from the USA have no repercussions. Maybe in areas like the UK where there is regulation; but the sites that service the USA are unregulated. The only issue that really keeps any of them in line is reputation.

5dimes has built a reputation over the years as a top site. What one person says or does not say will not affect them nor the industry. I prefer to believe that they did not know about the BLR software. My world runs better this way and I dont risk losing my 5dimes account fighting a battle over a small amount.

Its the wild west for USA servicing sportsbooks without the western justice.

That is understandable but I find this highly unlikely. The 'back end' of this software can breakdown in detail statistics for any type of game and it is inconceivable that any user of it was not aware of the 'excess' amount of money being made from Craps/No Pass/Pass bets.

[LMAOFISH]

Yea well I've had about 30 losing sessions in a row in the SBR casino (blackjack), someone should investigate them. I haven't won more then 10 of my last 50 hands.

[Peep]

So the test was in craps. It got an exceptional number of passes when the player was betting "don't pass."

Are they saying the software can tell what is being bet before it hits the supposed random number generator? That would seem weird to me.

I would like to have had them bet pass for a while on the same test, seen what the computer did.

[FourLengthsClear]

So the test was in craps. It got an exceptional number of passes when the player was betting "don't pass."

Are they saying the software can tell what is being bet before it hits the supposed random number generator? That would seem weird to me.

I would like to have had them bet pass for a while on the same test, seen what the computer did.

According to the player, out of the 3200+ 'trials', about 500 were pass bets, the remaining 2700 were don't pass. Success rates for BOTH were just over 25%.

The probability of of hitting at that rate is over 6 trillion to one.

[robmpink]

Anyone that goes on these sites from the USA have no repercussions. Maybe in areas like the UK where there is regulation; but the sites that service the USA are unregulated. The only issue that really keeps any of them in line is reputation.

5dimes has built a reputation over the years as a top site. What one person says or does not say will not affect them nor the industry. I prefer to believe that they did not know about the BLR software. My world runs better this way and I dont risk losing my 5dimes account fighting a battle over a small amount.

Its the wild west for USA servicing sportsbooks without the western justice.

Do you wonder why they didn't give rebates on the dgs software casino? They gave rebates on this. I wonder why? You are ignorant to think God didn't know about it since he was very involved with one of the casinos.

[mighty maron]

Do you wonder why they didn't give rebates on the dgs software casino? They gave rebates on this. I wonder why? You are ignorant to think God didn't know about it since he was very involved with one of the casinos.

It comes down to this. I emailed 5d inquiring about the BLR software. I only used the cashback casino for craps. I had posted on 8/5 of this year in following thread http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/casino/117...ino-sucks.html

In this post and on that day, I bet only no pass and got insta-crushed for approx 100. After those rolls, I thought better of it and got out before chasing my losses. I went to play in their bonus casino in craps and did very well. In the bonus casino I made up all of my previous lost deposits and made a little bit extra over the course of the next two months.

I read the articles about this, found that I had played the software in question at the site in question. I have a specfic session recorded in my records with an amount lost. I emailed 5dimes, and asked about the losses in that part of the casino. I asked because the person who found this flaw (the wizard of odds) posted that he was refunded my losses.

5dimes took a day via email to get back to me. They informed me that management made the decision to pull the software and that I would not have my losses for this session returned. I assume management means Tony (its an assumption)

So its not worth persuing over such a small amount. I just choose to believe they did not know because it gives me peace of mind. I value my 5dimes account so I just let it be.

[robmpink]

It comes down to this. I emailed 5d inquiring about the BLR software. I only used the cashback casino for craps. I had posted on 8/5 of this year in following thread http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/casino/117...ino-sucks.html

In this post and on that day, I bet only no pass and got insta-crushed for approx 100. After those rolls, I thought better of it and got out before chasing my losses. I went to play in their bonus casino in craps and did very well. In the bonus casino I made up all of my previous lost deposits and made a little bit extra over the course of the next two months.

I read the articles about this, found that I had played the software in question at the site in question. I have a specfic session recorded in my records with an amount lost. I emailed 5dimes, and asked about the losses in that part of the casino. I asked because the person who found this flaw (the wizard of odds) posted that he was
refunded my losses.

5dimes took a day via email to get back to me. They informed me that management made the decision to pull the software and that I would not have my losses for this session returned. I assume management means Tony (its an assumption)

So its not worth persuing over such a small amount. I just choose to believe they did not know because it gives me peace of mind. I value my 5dimes account so I just let it be.

If your situation was different and you lost 2k playing throughout a year what would your reaction be now?

I must say 5 dimes has THE BEST DGS casino out there with a Huge variety of games. I'm not saying it is 100% legit. They most likely set it at a % for profit but people do have to win.

I can't believe 5 Dimes actually had that crappy software as a casino. Cheating or no cheating it hands down is the worst playing, game selection and looking at it. It is something from a 1994 online casino.

[ucbearcats1027]

i could of told u ythat

[Leo Bello]

anyone playing the casino on any website deserves to lose their money. I only play if Im drunk and bored after a big win for a couple hunj. I win 1 out of 20 times. ALL CASINOS online are rigged.

Wolf, that is a terrible statement to make about yourself. I'm sure you couldn't mean what you said. You say players deserve to lose. In other words, they deserve to be blatently cheated—who signed up for that? Then you say you win 1 out of 20 times. You played 20 times? It is difficult to stand up for a person who has so little respect for themselves. Remember your statements the next time you even think about playing a fixed game again. Give the money to your wife, girlfriend, children, parents, or put it in the bank. "Cheat me once, shame on you; chest me twice, shame on me; cheat me 20 times, shame on (well, only you can finish the rest).

[mighty maron]

If your situation was different and you lost 2k playing throughout a year what would your reaction be now?

I do feel that if I was down 2k overall for the year and I had asked about loss recovery from BLR software craps for the session shown (all no pass like wizard who got refund) my chances of getting the money back would be better. I recall a live support chat posted somewhere on this site in another thread, in which he says he decides who gets what promos beyond the normal.

Cant do anything about it they made their decision

[LostBankroll]

Let me begin that I am a HEAVY casino player... Ive played at both 5Dimes and Legends rigged software casino which is in question now... Ive lost THOUSANDS in the past at 5Dimes, and around $500-$1000 RECENTLY playing in the Legends casino. Legends states a 5% rebate on loses.. Yet if they are allowed to carry a RIGGED game in their lineup then the 5% rebate is PEANUT MONEY to them. HOW IN THE WORLD CAN THESE BOOKS BE A+ (LEGENDS) is BEYOND ME. How does an A+ book have a FAULTY GAME???? WHy are they running this software period? Giving 5% is ROBBING the player. Funny how both 5D and Legends used the same software and gave Rebates using the SAME casino. Same principle here. I dont like it. I have chatted with a Legends CS rep which literally lied to me saying their casino wasnt faulty. I will be filling out a SBR complaint. Like I said Ive only lost around $500 in Legends but still its money that should be MINE. As for the 5Dimes money lost I wont get that since I dont have an acct with them anymore for "cursing" because 5Dimes tried to DICK me around. I would of never played there knowing a faulty game in the lineup. You can check my user to all the books Im a HEAVY casino player.. Play at multiple books. Thanks SBR.

[LostBankroll]

SBR complaint filed I hope I get my recent deposit money from Legends.com I lost it all playing the Craps and Roulette. I think this needs to be investigated further. Maybe EVERY game is rigged not just the Craps...? I just dont like how they try to disprove their games from 5d casino using a bad link. Like yea heres the proof we arent cheating you and they hand you a blank sheet of paper. Shame on Legends and 5d.