1. #36
    wantitall4moi
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    greek was an A or A+ book as was their affiliate book, they didnt stiff people but they transferred the funds to Heritage, a C- book IMO, a book without nearly the options you got at the 2 books it replaced. Pinnacle simply closed up and had people withdraw funds. Another A book gone.

    Matchbook was a B or B- book here, they stopped taking US customer, and they got downgraded to an F almost instantly, then because they paid 5 or 6 guys they got put back to a B or B-. Why did they get downgraded so fast? And why did they get upgraded so fast? People still havent ben paid by them yet almost 6 months out. Pinnacle had guy paid in a couple months. And some guys had 6 figures there. Took them a month to pay all mine off but when you take out 9999 at a time it takes awhile. But they didnt slow pay anyone they just let people withdraw what they could so as to avoid suspicion.

    Poker sites the same thing. They were supposed to be legal EVERYONE played poker online. But overnight it was lumped in the same as sportsbooks. How many guys still have thousands and thousands of dollars in poker sites? Todd frigging brunson has almost 200K in one, Howard Lederer paid him out of the trunk or his car because brunson couldnt get the money. And these books spent BILLIONS on advertising and marketing for years, then they simply disappeared, and took the money with them. But use the regulations as a guise as to why people arent getting paid. Which is exactly what any sportsbook could do if they wanted to. So ANY book, I dont care who they are could stiff you. Would they? Maybe not, but mostly because they dont have enough money to make it worth it. But the books from 5 or 6 yearsago that were all rated high that simply disappeared surely did.

    People might think it is safer, it isnt the difference is guys have enough brains not to have big balances off shore these days, so it doesnt entice the books into stealing it.

    Most of the guys on the forum shit their pants because they have to pay 50 bux to get 500. or worry if they have more than 5K in a book. Try having 6 figures in one or two and then see how that tastes. Then ask for it all to be moved or withdrawn and see how you feel if they dont or wont do it immediately.

    The legality is beside the point. The main point is if a book stiffs you you have no recourse. Look at this guy suing one of the biggest exchanges there is. All smoke and mirrors and semantics on why he isnt paid, but no one really cares because it isnt them.

    The ultimate is that books are now rated way too high. In what universe is 5dimes on the same level as Pinnacle? Both are rated A+. And in what universe is BoDog an A rated joint? Complete joke. There are also maybe 5 or 6 places bigger and better than Pinnacle this place doesnt even acknowledge. Where are they? And it isnt because US players cant play there, because half the books they have graded are closed to US player. Plus if this is supposed to be a global site then all books and exchanges should be represented. Not just the ones everyone has heard of. Or pay for advertising.

    If you have a small balance no worries, but if you have a figure that is big enough to be nervous about you should. Legal or not.

  2. #37
    illfuuptn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech N9ne View Post
    Your right but your also wrong

    Yes as long as you pay your taxes on winnings and are of legal age you are doing nothing wrong. However nobody here including you bothers to pay taxes on winnings, there might be a couple who do but the vast majority dont, therefore online gambling to most here is illegal
    Dumbest post ever? Not paying your taxes is illegal.

  3. #38
    FishFace5
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    Quote Originally Posted by illfuuptn View Post
    Dumbest post ever? Not paying your taxes is illegal.
    OK..... so you just cough up 30% off the top on winnings no questions asked??
    The process to properly report wins and losses in the US is a nightmare and straight robbery.
    Explain to me how you overcome a 30%+ margin and still view gambling as a profitable investment?

  4. #39
    LVHerbie
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    Real interesting discussion until it is time to get paid... Anyone want to buy a couple small balances at UB and Fulltilt?

  5. #40
    illfuuptn
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishFace5 View Post
    OK..... so you just cough up 30% off the top on winnings no questions asked??
    The process to properly report wins and losses in the US is a nightmare and straight robbery.
    Explain to me how you overcome a 30%+ margin and still view gambling as a profitable investment?
    First of all, you pay 30% of your earnings. It's not like you have to pay 30% of every winning wager you make. It does not affect your ability to win in gambling. It only decreases your income. If you win one year and then pay taxes and then lose the next year, I'm pretty sure you can write that off on future taxes.

    As for the part about getting taxed out the ass, I'm no expert. Using an accountant would definitely be in your best interest.

  6. #41
    teaserpleaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishFace5 View Post
    What a revolutionary idea....... its called Western. Union.

  7. #42
    John Dough
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    For the idiot who doesn't understand how a pro can handle paying taxes on his profit... how does anyone with a job afford to pay taxes on their income? There's no difference.

  8. #43
    polishkielbasa10
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    can't we all just get along?

  9. #44
    TheCentaur
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    Quote Originally Posted by illfuuptn View Post
    If you win one year and then pay taxes and then lose the next year, I'm pretty sure you can write that off on future taxes.
    That's incorrect. You can only claim losses up to winnings, you can't take a loss. You cannot carry over a loss to a future year. You could claim to be self employed and file a schedule c, but be prepared to get audited when they see you are taking meal and entertainment and gambling literature expenses, then prepare to pay an extra 13.3% (for 2011, good chance it will return to normal higher percentage in the future) for self employment tax in addition to regular income tax.

  10. #45
    Cap dat 4ss
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantitall4moi View Post
    greek was an A or A+ book as was their affiliate book, they didnt stiff people but they transferred the funds to Heritage, a C- book IMO, a book without nearly the options you got at the 2 books it replaced. Pinnacle simply closed up and had people withdraw funds. Another A book gone. Matchbook was a B or B- book here, they stopped taking US customer, and they got downgraded to an F almost instantly, then because they paid 5 or 6 guys they got put back to a B or B-. Why did they get downgraded so fast? And why did they get upgraded so fast? People still havent ben paid by them yet almost 6 months out. Pinnacle had guy paid in a couple months. And some guys had 6 figures there. Took them a month to pay all mine off but when you take out 9999 at a time it takes awhile. But they didnt slow pay anyone they just let people withdraw what they could so as to avoid suspicion. Poker sites the same thing. They were supposed to be legal EVERYONE played poker online. But overnight it was lumped in the same as sportsbooks. How many guys still have thousands and thousands of dollars in poker sites? Todd frigging brunson has almost 200K in one, Howard Lederer paid him out of the trunk or his car because brunson couldnt get the money. And these books spent BILLIONS on advertising and marketing for years, then they simply disappeared, and took the money with them. But use the regulations as a guise as to why people arent getting paid. Which is exactly what any sportsbook could do if they wanted to. So ANY book, I dont care who they are could stiff you. Would they? Maybe not, but mostly because they dont have enough money to make it worth it. But the books from 5 or 6 yearsago that were all rated high that simply disappeared surely did. People might think it is safer, it isnt the difference is guys have enough brains not to have big balances off shore these days, so it doesnt entice the books into stealing it. Most of the guys on the forum shit their pants because they have to pay 50 bux to get 500. or worry if they have more than 5K in a book. Try having 6 figures in one or two and then see how that tastes. Then ask for it all to be moved or withdrawn and see how you feel if they dont or wont do it immediately. The legality is beside the point. The main point is if a book stiffs you you have no recourse. Look at this guy suing one of the biggest exchanges there is. All smoke and mirrors and semantics on why he isnt paid, but no one really cares because it isnt them. The ultimate is that books are now rated way too high. In what universe is 5dimes on the same level as Pinnacle? Both are rated A+. And in what universe is BoDog an A rated joint? Complete joke. There are also maybe 5 or 6 places bigger and better than Pinnacle this place doesnt even acknowledge. Where are they? And it isnt because US players cant play there, because half the books they have graded are closed to US player. Plus if this is supposed to be a global site then all books and exchanges should be represented. Not just the ones everyone has heard of. Or pay for advertising. If you have a small balance no worries, but if you have a figure that is big enough to be nervous about you should. Legal or not.
    This is a good post that will not garner much attention here for two reasons 1.) most guys don't read anything over a few lines long 2.) Very few here have the kinds of funds you are talking about. However, the main point of what you wrote is exactly the main hindrance with the system, there is no recourse to get a book to pay. Nobody's money is ever truly safe offshore regardless if it's legal or not.

  11. #46
    Harmy G
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantitall4moi View Post
    There are also maybe 5 or 6 places bigger and better than Pinnacle this place doesnt even acknowledge. Where are they?



  12. #47
    Demonata
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    Well just do ** or ** because then you can just have cash and either keep it or deposit it in your bank...

  13. #48
    Ice House
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    if you scared to break the law you are a pussy. fukk the po po

  14. #49
    Ice House
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    jk lol but seriously grow a sack and bet...

  15. #50
    Scorpion
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyomguy View Post
    This is supposed to be michael jack corbin's job to tell the newbies .....john walker needs to pay me for this public service
    Beantownjims numbers are down

  16. #51
    FishFace5
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    Quote Originally Posted by illfuuptn View Post
    First of all, you pay 30% of your earnings. It's not like you have to pay 30% of every winning wager you make. It does not affect your ability to win in gambling. It only decreases your income. If you win one year and then pay taxes and then lose the next year, I'm pretty sure you can write that off on future taxes. As for the part about getting taxed out the ass, I'm no expert. Using an accountant would definitely be in your best interest.
    This is all false. First off I used 30% as an arbitrary number. If you win a couple 100K you're looking at 50% plus off the top. Second you cant count losses against any future earnings and in some states you cant even count your losses against your winnings. As I stated in my original post the structure in the US is straight robbery and you clowns who preach "to just pay your taxes" provide the most worthless and misinformed information ever.

  17. #52
    FishFace5
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Dough View Post
    For the idiot who doesn't understand how a pro can handle paying taxes on his profit... how does anyone with a job afford to pay taxes on their income? There's no difference.
    Talk about comparing apples to oranges. Jesus christ this has to be the most awful analogy Ive ever heard of. No professional gambler can afford to cough up 30%+ of his profits and still call this business a profitable one. No other country in the world treats gambling winnings as the US supposedly intends to. I'll keep my business under the rug until they sort things out but there will never be a day in which I fork over anywhere close to 30% of my winnings.
    NEVER. EVER.

  18. #53
    Scooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwaukee mike View Post



    for christ's sake, oral sex was still illegal in 18 states until 2003

    so if you claim to be a "law-abiding citizen" YOU AREN'T!
    Are you saying that there's a tax on oral sex?

  19. #54
    John Dough
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishFace5 View Post
    No professional gambler can afford to cough up 30%+ of his profits and still call this business a profitable one.
    Oh really? I guess I've been paying my taxes and my bills with monopoly money all these years then.

  20. #55
    FishFace5
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Dough View Post
    Oh really? I guess I've been paying my taxes and my bills with monopoly money all these years then.
    why did you group taxes and bills together?
    you consider yourself to be a pro gambler and claim to pay 30% off the top to US gov't?? (do you bet in Vegas or offshore)
    Why dont you have a set-up where you're playing at European books and paying European taxes??
    If you're a pro gambler and paying 30%+ to US gov't you're either a liar or an idiot.

  21. #56
    John Dough
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishFace5 View Post
    why did you group taxes and bills together?
    you consider yourself to be a pro gambler and claim to pay 30% off the top to US gov't?? (do you bet in Vegas or offshore)
    Why dont you have a set-up where you're playing at European books and paying European taxes??
    If you're a pro gambler and paying 30%+ to US gov't you're either a liar or an idiot.
    Yes, I pay whatever taxes I owe on my net profits after declaring winnings and deducting losses. I mentioned bills b/c I obviously use the remaining income to pay them and you claimed no one could pay taxes and be profitable.

    I guess I'm an idiot. No worries, I can live with that.

    I have no interest in answering the other personal questions, sorry.
    Last edited by John Dough; 09-02-11 at 03:59 PM.

  22. #57
    cyberinvestor
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    If it was legal all uk books would love usa customers

    JJ, it is legal to be a gambler on the Federal level. There is no Federal criminal statute against you going to a bookie and placing a bet. The FBI can only go after the bookmaker not the gambler.

    On the state level about half a dozen states have laws that prevent someone from placing a wager. Thereby making it a crime to be a gambler. However that does leave 44 states, the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico where it is not a crime to be a gambler.

    Where your argument above comes in is that it is illegal to run a gambling establishment under Federal and State law unless you are licensed by the Federal or State government. The UK books in your example are not licensed by the Federal government so their acceptance of your wagers makes them criminals in your example. That is why they don't want your business, they don't want to deal with any legal issue. The US has no jurisdiction in the UK but if those guys come flying into the US they can be arrested (see the CEO of BetonSports.com a few years back among others).

    The point of this all is in roughly 44 states you can be a gambler with no legal issues. The only time in those states you would have a legal issue is for some derivative action of being a gambler (tax evasion, failure to file, money laundering, etc.) but not the actual act of being a gambler.

  23. #58
    cyberinvestor
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    For those of you worried about paying taxes on your gambling, unless you are making over $50,000 a year than this should not be an issue. Yes, you have to pay income tax on your gambling winnings and the rate depends on a lot of things with your finances.

    If gambling and winning over $50,000 is a regular event for you then you should sit down and discuss creating a professional gambling entity. It's basically a business which has the sole activity of gambling. Most professional poker players do this and many larger syndicates do this. It has a lot of tax benefits and some restrictions (which is why you should consult an accountant and attorney) but it will eliminate the concern of paying hefty taxes since it provides better rates and additional write-offs. If you are making just a few grand here or there, it isn't worth it.

  24. #59
    YorkHunt
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    Indiana by far has the most crazy laws making any gambling a FELONY hahah

  25. #60
    Cap dat 4ss
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberinvestor View Post
    For those of you worried about paying taxes on your gambling, unless you are making over $50,000 a year than this should not be an issue. Yes, you have to pay income tax on your gambling winnings and the rate depends on a lot of things with your finances. If gambling and winning over $50,000 is a regular event for you then you should sit down and discuss creating a professional gambling entity. It's basically a business which has the sole activity of gambling. Most professional poker players do this and many larger syndicates do this. It has a lot of tax benefits and some restrictions (which is why you should consult an accountant and attorney) but it will eliminate the concern of paying hefty taxes since it provides better rates and additional write-offs. If you are making just a few grand here or there, it isn't worth it.
    I'll be sure and tell the IRS you said so when they ask why I didn't report my +45,000 in winnings next year

  26. #61
    Glitch
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    Quote Originally Posted by YorkHunt View Post
    Indiana by far has the most crazy laws making any gambling a FELONY hahah
    indiana has casinos in lawrenceburg- near cincinatti.

  27. #62
    RudyRuetigger
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    short answer is, its probably illegal in your state

    the chances of you getting charged are .00001% though

    but do not say it is legal because it probably isnt

  28. #63
    Scorpion
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberinvestor View Post

    On the state level about half a dozen states have laws that prevent someone from placing a wager. Thereby making it a crime to be a gambler.
    How about California?

  29. #64
    cyberinvestor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap dat 4ss View Post

    I'll be sure and tell the IRS you said so when they ask why I didn't report my +45,000 in winnings next year

    If you could read you would see my post said that creating a professional gambling entity isn't worth it if you are making less than $50,000 a year. Nowhere did I say or discuss not reporting gambling income. In fact my second sentence says "yes you have to pay income tax on gambling". Some of you guys are too funny. Where you got that I said not to pay your taxes from that post is amazing. Please explain the genius of your deduction because I sure missed it.

  30. #65
    cyberinvestor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post

    How about California?
    California is pretty liberal so you should be fine as I don't recall legislation there but it is best to check with a local attorney.

  31. #66
    lt56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Betting sports is illegal in the united states except las vegas

    Its pretty clear
    This is right and the OP is wrong and should not call people idiots. The only reason the feds do not go after players is because the big money is with the processors and the sportsbooks. But the feds have gone after some players. These would be a small number of Americans who've opened offshore internet accounts and then placed long lists of bets offshore for the many gamblers who bet with them. Local bookies in America have to be careful and not use offshore sites to place bets for all their clients

  32. #67
    cyberinvestor
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    Lt56, I am not trying to be a wiseass but can you show me the Federal Statute that prohibits an individual from placing a wager?

  33. #68
    TexansFan
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    The UIGEA, that was passed in 2006, only deals with how internet gambling accounts were funded, not the actual betting. The passage of the bill didn't make gambling on the internet illegal, it just made funding your account illegal.

    There are some states however who have gone ahead and made gambling illegal.

  34. #69
    pavyracer
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    Not only online gambling is illegal it is also unethical, despicable, immoral and unpatriotic.

  35. #70
    SportsPedagogy
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    Online gambling is illegal in Colorado

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