[horse]

I was already try get some help from Justin but he could not help me so far. Here is the reply from moneybookers. They blame me on everything and that is wrong. I recieved $713 from $9500 stolen. From panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com I recieved $10back from missing $4100 send to them.

Dear XXXXX,

Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately the funds have left our system. We tried to investigate them but they were sent to panbet.com and spent there so they cannot be refunded. We are very sorry for the inconvenience caused.
Please be reminded to keep your login and password details safe and secure. Moneybookers assume every person who identifies him/herself by entering the correct login email and password is the rightful account holder or customer. All transactions where the login email and password has been entered correctly will be regarded as valid. Moneybookers will not be held responsible for any losses incurred.

Our biggest concern is the security of our customers. Our goal is to capture such fraudulent transactions and to compensate our users. When we succeed in capturing the particular funds while they are still in the Moneybookers system, we do always refund them to the real victim of the fraud. However, sometimes we are not able to retrieve funds that have already left our system (examples: funds transferred to online casinos and immediately lost there, funds transferred to skype and the credits immediately used). On the other hand each customer's prime concern is his own security. If a third party has access to username and password and logs in as the legitimate holder of the account, we cannot be held responsible for any losses occurred.

Our investigation showed that the main cause that lead to compromising your Moneybookers account was the fact that there was a breach of security of your primary Moneybookers email address at the time XXXXXXXX. It appears that the person, who made the unauthorized transactions had full access to your XXXXXXXX email address. This leads us to believe that whoever gained access to your Moneybookers account, had previously secured access to your email address.

Our investigation also showed that there was no brute-forcing the password of your Moneybookers account. This means that the person who gained access to your account knew your exact password, which makes us believe that the precaution measures taken by you in order to protect your Moneybookers account password were not sufficient and that most probably you entered your Moneybookers account password on some websites other than Moneybookers or that the security of the computers you uses to access your Moneybookers account was compromised.

Under these circumstances, we regret to inform you that, unfortunately, we will not be able to issue a refund for the transactions you claimed as unauthorized, except the funds we have informed you already were reversed to your account( 713 USD).

If you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards,
Moneybookers Security

[horse]

Here is the funds and email addresses that is stolen from me. Anyone else been stolen from thoose email addresses? Help!

trans. 461476865 ivamaxi13@yahoo.com - 500$
trans 461490308 ivamaxi13@yahoo.com - 500$
trans 461498329 ivamaxi13@yahoo.com - 400$
trans 461521117 kirkur1819@yahoo.com - 500$
trans 461529615 kirkur1819@yahoo.com - 900$
trans 461542929 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 600$
trans 461547656 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 600$
trans 461553368 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 600$
trans 461560394 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 600$
trans 461568794 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 600$
trans 461581196 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 600$
trans 461586531 panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com - 500$
trans 461606502 telenko19@yahoo.com - 750$
trans 461615307 telenko19@yahoo.com - 600$
trans 461631927 kuztara81@yahoo.com - 700$
trans 461641105 kuztara81@yahoo.com - 645$

[Toit]

Horrible for you!

Did you use a the same password to access moneybookers and a bookmaker?

Unfortunately a lot of people working at bookmakers have access to your details, like your email address.
You need an email address and a password to log in to moneybookers and some people use the same password for several sites.
This makes it easy for people who know your details to log into moneybookers and to move your money...

For 15€ you can buy a security token (an extra security layer for moneybookers transactions) but that's too late for you now.

Did all the money go to 'Panbet' ?
(That's not really clear to me.)

Edit: Ah, you posted the addresses.
Is Panbet a reliable bookie?

[horse]

Toit. Thanks for your support. I use only a few good trusted bookies and moneybookers (I shouldnīt) but how can they blame everything on me for that? Thoose bookies I use is all well trusted bookmakers. I do not use bad bookies at all. I do not have account with panbet at all and should never open account with thoose thieves. I took contact with panbet about 10 hours after the thieft (when I noticed). This is the chatsession with Panbet support:

Me:
hi
Victoria:
Hello!
Me:
someone have hacked my moneybookersaccount and send money to you (Panbet)
Me:
so please suspend that account immiadetely
Me:
have anyone opened account in my name?
Me:
461586531 14 Jul 11 22:29 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -500.00 processed 1682.03 ID PANBET-1310675303750
461581196 14 Jul 11 22:16 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -600.00 processed 2182.03 ID PANBET-1310674529953
461568794 14 Jul 11 21:48 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -600.00 processed 2782.03 ID PANBET-1310672858931
461560394 14 Jul 11 21:30 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -600.00 processed 3382.03 ID PANBET-1310671807303
461553368 14 Jul 11 21:16 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -600.00 processed 3982.03 ID PANBET-1310670932375
461547656 14 Jul 11 21:04 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -600.00 processed 4582.03 ID PANBET-1310670226187
461542929 14 Jul 11 20:54 Send Money to panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com -600.00 processed 5182.03 ID PANBET-1310669619768
Me:
its 4100$ sending to you from someone hacked my moneybookersaccount
Me:
itīs some russian nstole my money and send to you
Victoria:
Nobody have opened an account on your name at panbet. You need to contact moneybookers and they will be able to deal with the fraud with us. We cant deal with it directly with customer.
Me:
my noneybookers emailadress is XXXXXXX
Me:
but it it send to your company
Victoria:
You have to contact moneybookers and they will sort it out with us. Its moneybookers security that let you down so they have to deal with it. Please accept my appologies.
Me:
OK. I contact them.

So how could my money disappear when I act so fast and they told me nobody have opened account in my name? That is a question I tell myself many times now.

[Toit]

Panbet should be able to trace the user with the transaction numbers, or am I wrong?
But then again, somebody had (for some reason) full access to your moneybookers account.

I hate this shit!

[horse]

I have now send moneybookers security another email. (I expect their reply around Tuesday-Wednesday).

So I asked few questions and why they blame me for everything?

Why is you still dealing business with the email address panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com when this clearly happened to another moneybookers user BEFORE this happened to me. In my view you are responsible still dealing business with panbetcuracaousd@panbet.com. My point is that you(moneybookers) should have suspended their business with you (moneybookers) before this happened to me. It should have saved me $4100.

http://de.pokerstrategy.com/forum/th...readid=1039111

[Hareeba!]

It does seem as though Panbet has some serious questions to answer but the bottom line is it does appear likely that the OP hasn't been as careful as he might have been with his password.

I note that he hasn't answered questions about using the same password at different sites.

This should be a lesson for everyone here that you must use unique passwords; never divulge your login password to anyone, including the staff at the book and where available use a secure token device such as Moneybookers offers.

[horse]

I trusted moneybookers and my bookies so I never changed my password and use the same password for different bookmakers. That is a big misstake from me but I never know about this could harm me so bad.

[Chopsticks]

use a secure token device such as Moneybookers offers.

And if you use Gmail, turn on the two-tier security setting. You will receive a code by text message every time you log in to your e-mail account.

[Toit]

I trusted moneybookers and my bookies so I never changed my password and use the same password for different bookmakers. That is a big misstake from me but I never know about this could harm me so bad.

Please change all your passwords NOW!

[horse]

Everything started when I decide withdraw funds from bwin, betcris and titanbet and my moneybookers account was then around $8000. I blame bwin because their withdrawal took so long time so I never saw when the money arrived. It took days. The thieves also managed to hack and withdraw funds from pinnacle sports, 188 bet and they tried withdraw funds from my 5 dimes account but that withdrawal was failed so 5 dimes security worked well. The thieves also tried to withdraw $5000 from bwin and that is the most scary thing.That withdrawal was on pending with bwin. But when you make a withdrawal from bwin you also need a security question and how they had that security questions is out of my mind! I had it in my head only. Not written anywhere! but the possibility some can have copy my computer when I made withdrawals with bwin the time before. The other possibility is that one worker from bwin is the thief and cooperate with panbet. That is the only I can figure. All my passwords is changed since.

[horse]

I mean how they had my security answer from bwin? That is really strange.

[horse]

They also try withdraw the rest of my funds from Titanbet $3000 but their security worked well too. So at least I saved the 5000 from bwin and the 3000 from titanbet. Those funds is now safe to my bankaccount. I still have my funds with 5 dimes. Thats the whole story.

[Chopsticks]

If they got in to your 5Dimes and pinnacle accounts then they must have had your username. Those are assigned by the system so they are unique. I would assume that you either have a keylogger problem or someone got access to your e-mail account.

If you use Gmail you can check the IP addresses that have logged in to your account by going to the bottom and clicking "details". I think it is at the bottom, maybe the right hand side.

It is unfortunate that you used the same password with moneybookers, the bookies and in your e-mail account. You should look in to a security system like Keepass in addition to what has already been mentioned.

Of course it is a bit too late now but if you plan on continue gambling online then you have to do this.

Do a virus/malware/trojan/etc check before you change passwords though.

[horse]

The usernames was saved by my browsers another misstake by me.

[horse]

If the crook read this. I feel terrible for weeks now and without sleep and you destroy my life. Just to your knowledge.

[AimingHigh]

Are you Moneybookers VIP? If so, have you asked them for help? I think they guarantee the safety of funds now for VIP customers.

[Trident]

Are you using a wireless connection for internet?

Have you scanned you computer for a key logger?

[chance]

And if you use Gmail, turn on the two-tier security setting. You will receive a code by text message every time you log in to your e-mail account.

Thanks for this tip.

[kostasgr]

It s very sad.Personally as i am a vip member,i ure a key that creates every time i logina a new number..

[dikefale]

Freaking nightmare,i hope you find the way to recover money.

[Scooter]

horse - Sorry to read your story.

Do you sometimes use a public wifi system, such as at an internet cafe/coffeeshop?

Have you ever logged in on another computer?

[dazed99]

my paypal account was hacked once to skype but I was able to recover money because invoice was sent to my email right away. Does moneybooker have the same option?

[AimingHigh]

It sounds like Moneybookers have washed their hands of it, simply arguing that because there's no evidence that the thief hacked Moneybookers - rather than hacking his e-mail address - he wasn't looking after his details.

Moneybookers are FSA regulated. You can always complain there.

Even if Moneybookers aren't responsible for the initial access part of the theft, Panbet accepted money from a Moneybookers account not linked to the account holder's name. So surely that money must be somewhere? Wouldn't Panbet owe it to you as they accepted your money for someone else's account? I know that only covers some of the money, but it's still a fair chunk.

Panbet are Alderney-based (just checked), so I would complain to their regulator: http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/index.php

[vill]

As I can see there isn't any system which we can trust nowadays...

[Monte]

Moneybookers isn't even in the same league as Neteller, i always knew they suck.
Bwin is also pure horseshit, you are dealing with the wrong sites here...

[Hareeba!]

Moneybookers isn't even in the same league as Neteller, i always knew they suck.

Last I heard Neteller don't even provide customers with a security token ?

I ditched Neteller in favour of Moneybookers after putting them both to the test ...
I found MB to be much faster with payouts, cheaper and more efficient.

What would Neteller have done any differently in this case once the money was in Panbet's account ?

[nikosgr]

Guys, for all of you that use Moneybookers, it would be wise to use their security token.
Sorry horse.

[Optional]

Sounds like moneybookers should be taking a little more responsibility from the info posted.

[Scooter]

Sounds like moneybookers should be taking a little more responsibility from the info posted.

Agreed. Whether they feel they are legally liable or not, they could have contacted panbet, notified panbet security, and from there perhaps panbet might have taken a more active role in investigating this.

[Monte]

What would Neteller have done any differently in this case once the money was in Panbet's account ?

Neteller immediately locks your account if someone with a different IP/location tries to do *anything* with your account.
Or on anything that could be suspicious, and THIS certainly is wouldn't you agree.
I have had this happen several times when it was just me, while it was a bit annyoing i appreciated it at the end of the day.
Does MB do that? I can't imagine, considering what happened to the OP.

[Hareeba!]

Neteller immediately locks your account if someone with a different IP/location tries to do *anything* with your account.
Or on anything that could be suspicious, and THIS certainly is wouldn't you agree.
I have had this happen several times when it was just me, while it was a bit annyoing i appreciated it at the end of the day.
Does MB do that? I can't imagine, considering what happened to the OP.

Not sure how they actually go about that.
So if I use a different ISP to login to my Neteller account they will block it?
I have a mate who's Neteller account was cleaned out a couple of years ago. Funds sent to Betfair where they were placed on dumb bets and lost. He never got his money back,

[Hareeba!]

Agreed. Whether they feel they are legally liable or not, they could have contacted panbet, notified panbet security, and from there perhaps panbet might have taken a more active role in investigating this.

I think both MB and Panbet should be seen to be doing better that they have so far.

[horse]

Are you Moneybookers VIP? Answer No

Are you using a wireless connection for internet? Answer No

Have you scanned you computer for a key logger? Answer No

Do you sometimes use a public wifi system, such as at an internet cafe/coffeeshop? Answer Never

Have you ever logged in on another computer? Answer No

[davidchong]

security token is free at mb (you have more than 5k)
neteller dont have security token, but have a secure id