[stipe]

Long time reader of the SBR Forum but first time poster.

Just interested in others thoughts about an issue I am having with Pinnacle. (I will keep it as brief as possible)

Placed an in-game baseball wager on June 17. The wager was successful and paid out at the end of the game.

Then went on an extremely cold run (2 of 14) over the next few days.

On June 20 I logged on to pinnacle to find my account balance significantly lower than it should have been. Check my emails and found that Pinnacle had ruled that the in-game wager I had placed on June 17 had been cancelled due to a "bad" line.

I have since had communication with them in relation to why I don't believe the line was "bad" but have been advised of the reasons for the decision and basically I am not going to be able to convince them.

I have only ever had one other wager cancelled and that was by Matchbook about 2 years ago on a Tennis match that they stated had started 4 1/2 mins prior to me placing my wager. I was advised that my bet was cancelled about 20 min later, approx 1 hour & 10 min prior to the end of the game. I was comfortable with this as I knew my position prior to the match ending.

My first question is: Is 3 days about standard for finding out you have taken a "bad" line? and what is the longest it can take to find out 7 days, 28 day, 6 months?? Is there a time limit at all or just when they discover the "so called" bad line.


My next issue is that due to the fact my account balance was higher than it should have been, I wagered far more than I would have otherwise.

ie. as an example my balance shows $10000 instead of $8000. My next wager is a 5star selection. Using my method this is a 5% wager of my balance. So I had $500 on the game instead of $400.

For this reason I have asked Pinnacle if they will reduce all the wagers I placed after June 17 and prior to being advised of the "bad" to the % of what my account balance really was rather than the amount I did on the false balance they provided (both winners & losers) and "compensate" me the difference.

Do I have a case??

I understand that people will ask if I would be seeking the same if in fact I had gone on a hot run like 12 of 14 after the wager was paid.
Obviously I would not be but my argument would be that I was not the one who provided a false balance.


Cheers

[ronald]

It would depend on how bad the line was. Sometimes the pinnacle software screws up for a min or two and will show a line like +11222 instead of +112. If you hit a line like that, then pinny should be able to cancel, even if it takes them a few days to see the mistake. Now, if the fair line was +120 and pinny had it at +150, then you have a case.

[BigFish]

It would depend on how bad the line was. Sometimes the pinnacle software screws up for a min or two and will show a line like +11222 instead of +112. If you hit a line like that, then pinny should be able to cancel, even if it takes them a few days to see the mistake. Now, if the fair line was +120 and pinny had it at +150, then you have a case.

Agreed with ronald. If it was one of those absolutely outrageous lines (example above) that sometimes are posted in Pinny in-game, you aren't due much sympathy. If there is room for reasonable debate as to the "bad line," I think you have a case.

Disputes RARELY occur with Pinny -- I'm sure the forum would love to know just what the situation with the "bad line" (not to mention it will likely be the deciding factor in whether you "have a case"). Elaborate please...

[Dr.Gonzo]

I think it depends on whether you could reasonable be expected to know it was a bad line. More information is needed. What was the so called "bad line" that they cancelled.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Disputes RARELY occur with Pinny -- I'm sure the forum would love to know just what the situation with the "bad line" (not to mention it will likely be the deciding factor in whether you "have a case"). Elaborate please...

Pinnacle is not A+ for live betting.

[michael777]

what was the line and the score when you made the wager?

[justonetime]

Pinnacle is actually very fair when it comes to live-betting wagers in my experience. If they say it was a bad line, I would tend to side with them. You don't have much of an argument to request that they change your wager amounts and I think you know that.

[David]

Depends on how off the line was.

[Hareeba!]

Pinnacle is actually very fair when it comes to live-betting wagers in my experience. If they say it was a bad line, I would tend to side with them. You don't have much of an argument to request that they change your wager amounts and I think you know that.

How can it take them so long after the game to come to the view that it was a bad line and void the bet ?

[mminkovski]

pinny sucks at live betting, they are simply the best bookie online on any other aspect

[Chuck Sims]

When you bet a bad line, you should expect the bet to be voided.

Bet voided. Case closed.

[Hareeba!]

When you bet a bad line, you should expect the bet to be voided.

Bet voided. Case closed.

only if you can be reasonably expected to know it's bad

would it not be reasonable to assume it was okay if it had been settled and not voided after 2 days?

[Chuck Sims]

only if you can be reasonably expected to know it's bad

would it not be reasonable to assume it was okay if it had been settled and not voided after 2 days?

No.

Pinnacle offered NYY +1.5 +385 when they were trailing 4-3 to the Cubs. It was a bad line and I did not even think about betting the NYY. It would be steailing if I had. And I certainly would not think the bet was "okay" if they had graded the bet a winner and two days had passed.

[Dark Horse]

Bad line or not, three days is far too long for that to be decided and come back to you. Vegas rules, whenever possible. In this case, you could have flown three times around the world already. How would the sportsbook know where to find you and your money? This is another example of a book misusing the fact that they're holding the players money. There has to be a reasonable time limit for these type of decisions.

This aside from shot taking, which is the second issue here. If player knowingly took a shot, the sympathy factor is out the door. But the book should still decide quicker, and have the courtesy to shoot the player an e-mail about it.

[JohnnyRotten]

bit of a joke it took pinny so long to void,

[Stumpage]

More than anything, it is the passage of 3 days that is most curious. I've had the bad line scenario with Pinny as well in Live betting several years back, but it was cancelled while the game was still in progress along with an explanatory email.....

[Ruifgalmeida]

3days way too long

[dikefale]

Very odd for pinnacle to do this.

[evo34]

You probably have a good case to keep the original wager. But assuming they do not re-instate it, to ask them to reduce your subsequent (losing) wagers is pretty absurd.

[GoldenRichards]

Poor performance by Pinnacle being so slow but we need more information on the so-called bad line.

[stipe]

Sorry guys, live in Australia and been at work all day.


Defiantly didn't think i was betting a bad line. Had my standard size bet and was not taking a shot! I never expected it to be voided and did not attempt to cash out in the days following to run away with undeserved winnings. I did however feel the bet was value obviously as I don't bet when I don't think it is. If I wanted to have a go I would have placed my entire balance on it and tried to cash out when it was declared a winner. That's not my style

I will give you more details once the case is settled but it was on the Yankees/Cubs game on June 18 (June 17 pinnacle time on statement) and was on the Cubs at +1.5. The "bad line" was not like the first one suggested by Ronald but from the explanation more like the 2nd one he mentions although it was probably a bit better but I did not compare with any other books at the time to compare.

Like I said, if the line is called "bad" I can except that and have no issue at all but would expect to know much sooner. ie before the end of the game.

I only suggested the compensation after a friend here had a look at all the details and said that maybe they graded this bet good to get you to bet more on the weekend (My bigger wagers are on Aussie Rules which was played that weekend) with the intention of calling it "bad" later. I dismissed this because it could have gone the other way and it could have benefited me quite substantially but it did get me thinking about the extra amounts it caused me to wager due to the "incorrect" size of my bankroll.

Cheers

[Justin7]

stipe,

What was the game-state when you bet? (Score, inning, at bat, outs, and on base). What did you bet, and what price?

[lukahh]

pinny has always been verz honest to me...

[Stallion]

Pinny is an A+ book, and will resolve it fairly.

[sharpcircle]

When you bet a bad line, you should expect the bet to be voided.

Bet voided. Case closed.

you often sound like a shill for books.

[TheMoneyShot]

Stipe has been asked several times to give out the so called "bad line" during this thread... and still nothing? It must of been a ridiculous line.

[Ibrakadabra]

To void a live bet after three days sounds absolutely weird so you may have some kind of case. But, as mentioned by others, without being more specific about the scenario and price it´s really hard for anyone else to tell.

[odysseus]

To void a live bet after three days sounds absolutely weird so you may have some kind of case.

Worrying things happening at Pinny at the mo.
Just had them mis-grade a "1st team to score" MLB prop. I left it 2 days assuming they would spot it before I had to contact them. They did sort it in 10 minutes once I'd emailed them tho'.

[stipe]

Case Closed by Pinnacle.

As I stated about the line, I made my case and was not going to be able to convince them. I didn't think it was a bad line but was informed in was in the range of 60-70c more than most books at the time. Happy to take there word on that as I didn't compare with other books. No Issue from me - bet void.

In relation to the 3 days to advise me. They advised that there is no time frame other than "when the mistake is found". This could be 3min, 3 days, 3 months, 3 years. Apparently somebody who bet on the opposite side to me contacted them claiming they had taken a bad line when they realized and thus the 3 day delay. Wish they hadn't!

My compensation case was dismissed as they don't compensate when balance errors occur due to bad lines not being recognized for a period.

Would be interested to know what would have happened if I had withdrawn all my $$ the day after the event and then put money back in my account a week later. Would they have sent an email when they found the error advising the next $254.50 I deposit would be taken due to the bad line or would they have waited for me to deposit and then taken it?

Although the customer service and prompt response to my emails was very good I am still very disappointed about the 3 day delay and might try some other A+ books and see what they are like prior to making a decision if I should play there again or not.


Cheers and happy punting!

[Maniac]

Case Closed by Pinnacle.

As I stated about the line, I made my case and was not going to be able to convince them. I didn't think it was a bad line but was informed in was in the range of 60-70c more than most books at the time. Happy to take there word on that as I didn't compare with other books. No Issue from me - bet void.

In relation to the 3 days to advise me. They advised that there is no time frame other than "when the mistake is found". This could be 3min, 3 days, 3 months, 3 years. Apparently somebody who bet on the opposite side to me contacted them claiming they had taken a bad line when they realized and thus the 3 day delay. Wish they hadn't!

My compensation case was dismissed as they don't compensate when balance errors occur due to bad lines not being recognized for a period.

Would be interested to know what would have happened if I had withdrawn all my $$ the day after the event and then put money back in my account a week later. Would they have sent an email when they found the error advising the next $254.50 I deposit would be taken due to the bad line or would they have waited for me to deposit and then taken it?

Although the customer service and prompt response to my emails was very good I am still very disappointed about the 3 day delay and might try some other A+ books and see what they are like prior to making a decision if I should play there again or not.


Cheers and happy punting!

If for instance you bet the +1.5 when it should have been -1.5 then I would agree bad line - however saying "60-70c off from most books" is a reply that begs a lot more questions.

If it was 60-70c off from the market on a pre-game price then they may have a point (assuming it was 60-70c off due to a mistake and NOT due to being slow to react to a market move and leaving a stale line open), or if it was a case that the lines were flip-flopped and should have been -135 on Team A but they were accidently -135 on Team B

Live betting on the otherhand is a tricky one as a lot depends on exactly how or why the line was that far off - are Pinny's Live lines traded by a computer program, or computer assisted, or are the prices adjusted manually by a trader ? In which case was this line supposedly incorrect due to a glitch in the computer program or to do with a technical reason as to why the line wasnt updated properly such as a system freeze etc...or was it simply that any trader involved either got it wrong, over-reacted to the game state or even if they took a personal view.

If they were -230 but their competitors were -300 In-Play, then its a very tough call to make as to how incorrect they are - especially when you consider that a lot of rival companies trade their Live lines to 30-40cents and more. I havent used Pinny for live betting yet, so not actually sure what they trade their lines to, though I am assuming a lower centline than 40c.

Did they say why the line was 60-70c off - was it a genuine mistake on their part or as a result of their system/trader just being slow to update the prices ?

Sadly there are a lot of people out there who just sit and wait for a bad line to occur and purposely bet the wrong side of it hoping that the side they are backing turns it around and wins, knowing that if they dont then they can try to claim bad line and get the bet voided therefore taking a free shot at the book...

[MCherry281]

The line was obviously bad because you won't say what it was. We know Cubs +1.5 but what was the juice and score at the time? Nothing else really matters until you say what that was.

[mesadog]

It would depend on how bad the line was. Sometimes the pinnacle software screws up for a min or two and will show a line like +11222 instead of +112. If you hit a line like that, then pinny should be able to cancel, even if it takes them a few days to see the mistake. Now, if the fair line was +120 and pinny had it at +150, then you have a case.

Shouldn't they at minimum be required to pay him the fair line though?

[d2bets]

60-70 cents "off" for a live betting is not a bad line, if that is truly what it was. I've seen differences like that many times, which often quickly converge, but they are not bad lines. But the fact that stipe seems unwilling to provide the more specific details justin asked for (score, inning, at bat, outs, odds, etc.) makes me believe it was probably a lot more off than that.

Cancelling 3 days later is not good though.

[michael_li]

I dont think there is anything you can do about it specially if Pinnacle is behind them, they are a pretty solid book and I would trust them, yes 3days is a lot too but if the line or the bet was just 60-70c like the OP says then i guess it was not such a big bet for them to keep checking after grading thus the long period that they noticed.

But still its kinda weird that the OP havent said whats the bad line that he took :P