[goblue12]

Actually this durito fellas comments are very valuable.

[PoweRay]

Sounds like some posters are circumventing limits using multiple accounts/aliases/beards... and they don't want to talk about it on the forum.

[Hareeba!]

Actually this durito fellas comments are very valuable.

really?

not in this thread at least

perhaps you'd care to point to one that is ?

[evo34]

Since you seem to be quite open with your success, what sports exactly do you bet on?

I'm a Euro who almost never plays at Euro books. I make more money than almost anyone posting in this thread. Most of the comments by Hareeba are naive since he's never actually bet more than a sockful of nickels on sports. MB has virtually no volume on anything I'm interested in betting. Pinnacle actually has significantly smaller limits on some events I'm interested in betting. When you spend less time being a poseur on the internet and more time making money for rent, you'll understand.

[Thremp]

You claimed 5k was substantially larger than what you had ever bet before. Which is it?

I'm not a whale by any means. I'm a great barometer for mediocrity in sports betting.

I'm not here to hold your hand (as if you'd learn anything even if presented with the chance). MB doesn't always have the best odds (www.sbrodds.com). Of course in your theoretical world there isn't a need for both price and volume, instead you choose two books and one aspect of each.

[durito]

who's the poseur ?



So you'd know that for a fact would you?
I've never claimed to be a whale like you have. I've told you my absolute max. wager is $5k. If that's a sockful of nickels to you, you've got f***ing large feet. But who cares?



What I still don't understand is where a punter can get better odds and larger limits amongst US serving books than they could at MB and Pinnacle because having asked the question repeatedly all I can get is smartarse responses from Durito and Thremp which are utterly useless to anyone.

i suggest learning how to read

[Thremp]

Evo,

Anything with odds that I feel I have an edge on.

[Hareeba!]

You claimed 5k was substantially larger than what you had ever bet before. Which is it?

I'm not a whale by any means. I'm a great barometer for mediocrity in sports betting.

I'm not here to hold your hand (as if you'd learn anything even if presented with the chance). MB doesn't always have the best odds (www.sbrodds.com). Of course in your theoretical world there isn't a need for both price and volume, instead you choose two books and one aspect of each.

I suggest you learn how to read

I've given up on ever expecting an answer to anything from you

[Johnny 55]

I will answer for them Hareeba, they are not going to tell you which books are off market at which times and on which sports bc it would cut into their bottom line, but they know who is the most off market at what times and get down according to what they figure their edge to be. Hint, most of the time, it is not in efficient, major market US sports. You can get better lines than what Pinny and Matchy offer quite frequently throughout a day and into the night if you have accounts at a lot of books and know where to look.

The biggest fallacy that is perpetuated on this sports betting forum and dozens of others like it each day is that there are a lot of people who can beat oddsmakers consistently with traditional handicapping and a so-called knowledge of major US sports, this fraud takes hold because Joe America likes to watch these sports and gets sucked in thinking his opinion about sports is at at high level or he can follow some tout with insider knowledge. While there are a couple people who consistently beat major sports they are few and far between, the people who make money betting on sports, understand math, plain and simple, they understand markets, money management, and Kelly proportion betting, you dont need to know anything about sports to make money betting on sports but 99% of people will never understand this and the 1% of people who consistently make money actually make it indirectly on the backs of the other 99% of idiots who frequent these forums.

[obamaismyuncle]

Over the past 2 weeks I have read nothing but posts implying that the US offshore industry is coming to an end.. it is not. This is an industry that has learned to adapt and work around the hoops that have been presented to it .

URLs were seized thats about it , and the truth of it is some of you here forget that this is the bookmaking business even your local guy can get busted in a sting and you wont get paid.

Beted.com simply did not want to go to BetEd.ag beted.eu etc etc a shame to say the least but over the course of 10 years we have seen countless shops open and close , people who read these blogs are informed enough to determine in which shops the risk is greater than others.

This all went down due to excessive CC use and the fact that its not secret the DOJ has out it for a few shops in particular , they want the money they want to freeze the fat bank accounts and they want to put fear in your head ..which they have done.

Betonsports , Cascade , Neteller , PrePaid ATM etc etc .. every single time that happened people would panic yet here we are... when neteller went down I remember the posts it was like reading a Nostradamus book or the same with Betonsports...yet here we are.

Why people complaint about not being able to use e wallets in the US after the legislation is beyond me it is obvious these e wallets were working underground and some risk would be involved .. yet the moment something goes wrong all of you start crying wolf.

Now not to say the recent events have not taught us anything but , the ones over the past 10 years have taught me something.. use certain methods as crazy as it sounds these are the ones that have been around the longest and still prevail.

Some of you have not been exposed to this business for long or the inside of it so as soon as something goes wrong it does not mean it is over.

The larger shops are being watched , that doesnt mean they will stop booking;for them to seize that business they would have to go into europe ask permission to steal a URL away, and then try and find all of their money ..not happening.

The one thing I have to say is bad news to you CC depositors back to reality and back to walking 10 minutes to get your action aside from that...business as usual

which SBR employee are you?

[Thremp]

I will answer for them Hareeba, they are not going to tell you which books are off market at which times and on which sports bc it would cut into their bottom line, but they know who is the most off market at what times and get down according to what they figure their edge to be. Hint, most of the time, it is not in efficient, major market US sports. You can get better lines than what Pinny and Matchy offer quite frequently throughout a day and into the night if you have accounts at a lot of books and know where to look.

The biggest fallacy that is perpetuated on this sports betting forum and dozens of others like it each day is that there are a lot of people who can beat oddsmakers consistently with traditional handicapping and a so-called knowledge of major US sports, this fraud takes hold because Joe America likes to watch these sports and gets sucked in thinking his opinion about sports is at at high level or he can follow some tout with insider knowledge. While there are a couple people who consistently beat major sports they are few and far between, the people who make money betting on sports, understand math, plain and simple, they understand markets, money management, and Kelly proportion betting, you dont need to know anything about sports to make money betting on sports but 99% of people will never understand this and the 1% of people who consistently make money actually make it indirectly on the backs of the other 99% of idiots who frequent these forums.

I will support this answer.

This is why the theoretical problems of people being +EV against closers are somewhat moot. If you can crush large liquid numbers (From a quick glance MB still has terrible liquidity, mid 4 figure offers for less than half the games at decent prices), you need to be incredibly wealthy to actually bother to bet into those numbers.

[durito]

I suggest you learn how to read

I've given up on ever expecting an answer to anything from you

If you can´t read thremps posts and not figure out how to make lots of money betting sports you should stop betting.

If you don´t bet more than 5k ever you should stop talking about pinnacle, you have no need to play there.

[Hareeba!]

If you don´t bet more than 5k ever you should stop talking about pinnacle, you have no need to play there.

I bet where I can get the best odds.

Of the books I know and trust Pinnacle, Matchbook, SBO, 188 and a couple of Aussies provide the best odds almost all the time. (So I shouldn't bet at Pinnacle when they offer the best odds?)

None of those serve the US market.

All I've been attempting to say in this thread is that there is no need for a non-US punter to maintain accounts with US serving books particularly in the current climate of attack by the US government. (I do concede the odd exceptions for those playing some of the bet types mentioned by donjuan if they are prepared to run the extra risk to do so)

So, despite putting the question several times and receiving only responses which dodge the question I still don't know where amongst those books one can frequently obtain better odds and limits.

I have NOT stated that you can't win at those books. I just don't see why they are necessary if they don't offer any more than the books I've mentioned and I can't see that they do. If they do, let's know who they are, otherwise please don't bother responding.

[Hareeba!]

I will answer for them Hareeba, they are not going to tell you which books are off market at which times and on which sports bc it would cut into their bottom line, but they know who is the most off market at what times and get down according to what they figure their edge to be. Hint, most of the time, it is not in efficient, major market US sports. You can get better lines than what Pinny and Matchy offer quite frequently throughout a day and into the night if you have accounts at a lot of books and know where to look.

I expect at least part of that's true. So these are US serving books you refer to?
And they'll take decent sized bets without limiting the guts out of you?
I guess my problem is that I'm a genuine sports punter, not an arber/trader and although I play a number of sports, would never even look at markets for the lesser ones. But surely the ability to make a decent sized wager on those would be severley limited?

The biggest fallacy that is perpetuated on this sports betting forum and dozens of others like it each day is that there are a lot of people who can beat oddsmakers consistently with traditional handicapping and a so-called knowledge of major US sports, this fraud takes hold because Joe America likes to watch these sports and gets sucked in thinking his opinion about sports is at at high level or he can follow some tout with insider knowledge. While there are a couple people who consistently beat major sports they are few and far between, the people who make money betting on sports, understand math, plain and simple, they understand markets, money management, and Kelly proportion betting, you dont need to know anything about sports to make money betting on sports but 99% of people will never understand this and the 1% of people who consistently make money actually make it indirectly on the backs of the other 99% of idiots who frequent these forums.

Yes, but I've known and understood that for 30 years.

[Thremp]

You have claimed there are only a handful of "solvent" books. Bookmaker is insolvent by your definition. Or by your A rating system which doesn't include Pinnacle or Matchbook (yet you circumvent your own statements to give them a random rating). Your comments are ridiculous on where someone should keep their money, much less what professionals do to make money. (You would have no knowledge of this.) This is corroborated by your view of a mid 4 figure bettor as a "whale".

You're clearly intentionally ignorant/disingenuous or extremely stupid (perhaps both). Did you miss the part where all the odds were bet at better than Pinny/MB?

[trixtrix]

people say prohibition was eventually repealed b/c it was "ineffective" as it just droves the traffickers underground, but the marijuana laws are still in effect when it's proven that they're less dangerous than alcohol and the fight against it is equally ineffective.

imo the repealing of online gambling laws is by no means a certainty and certainly is not likely to happen in the immediate future.

obv online gambling itself is not coming to an end, america's illegal narcotics use is not likely to come to an end either, but the light at the end of that tunnel is still pretty far for u.s players that hope to gamble legitmately.

[Hareeba!]

You have claimed there are only a handful of "solvent" books. Bookmaker is insolvent by your definition. Or by your A rating system which doesn't include Pinnacle or Matchbook (yet you circumvent your own statements to give them a random rating). Your comments are ridiculous on where someone should keep their money, much less what professionals do to make money. (You would have no knowledge of this.) This is corroborated by your view of a mid 4 figure bettor as a "whale".

You're clearly intentionally ignorant/disingenuous or extremely stupid (perhaps both). Did you miss the part where all the odds were bet at better than Pinny/MB?

I've never said half those things you are attributing to me.
But so what's new?
Just keep pouring crap on me. Don't even attempt to clarify the issues raised.
Never in all my time in several forums have I encountered a more obnoxious character.

[durito]

All I've been attempting to say in this thread is that there is no need for a non-US punter to maintain accounts with US serving books particularly in the current climate of attack by the US government. (I do concede the odd exceptions for those playing some of the bet types mentioned by donjuan if they are prepared to run the extra risk to do so)

You are right, i guess i will pull my 1/4 mil out and put it at pinnacle. It will be safe there. I can't wait to make bets at market prices, will be rich in no time I'm sure.

[Hareeba!]

You are right, i guess i will pull my 1/4 mil out and put it at pinnacle. It will be safe there. I can't wait to make bets at market prices, will be rich in no time I'm sure.

yet another utterly useless response, ignoring the questions entirely

[scarface]

at the very worst , players will lose deposit options and all the luxuries you guys had...books will close down and more players will lose their balances....but there will always be a us market...

[durito]

yet another utterly useless response, ignoring the questions entirely

You are worse than the idiots that want me to post plays.

Why don't you do some research and figure it out for yourself.

[Hareeba!]

You are worse than the idiots that want me to post plays.

Why don't you do some research and figure it out for yourself.

I've done heaps of looking at odds and limits amongst the US serving books and not found any that can serve me better than those I use.

The purpose of a forum is for people to share opinions and information.

You appear to offer nothing of value if you can't answer some basic questions.

You don't need even to mention the book(s) in question to do so, if you are paranoid about that.

But you obviously prefer to just post useless smartarse comments like in your previous post.

[durito]

Say you wanted to bet the Texas Rangers right now (and wanted to bet more than the whopping $122 matchbook has offered at +100).

Would you bet at pinnacle -105 or betonline +100?

[Hareeba!]

Say you wanted to bet the Texas Rangers right now (and wanted to bet more than the whopping $122 matchbook has offered at +100).

Would you bet at pinnacle -105 or betonline +100?

As it happens I've already backed them @ Matchbook +102

I've never had an account at Betonline and at this stage would be wary of them.

What sort of limits do they have and what's their record of slapping punters with personal limits?

[durito]

Sporting Kansas City MLS

Pinnacle pk -165
SBO -167
Matchbook lol doesn't have said bet
Bodog -140
Sportsbook -145
jazz -163
5dimes -152
bookmaker had -150

[durito]

As it happens I've already backed them @ Matchbook +102

I've never had an account at Betonline and at this stage would be wary of them.

What sort of limits do they have and what's their record of slapping punters with personal limits?

MLB limits are $7,500

im up 6 figures lifetime there, no limiting except props.

[durito]

So you "handicap" MLB?

[Hareeba!]

So you "handicap" MLB?

not personally, but follow someone who's very good at it

[Hareeba!]

Sporting Kansas City MLS

Pinnacle pk -165
SBO -167
Matchbook lol doesn't have said bet
Bodog -140
Sportsbook -145
jazz -163
5dimes -152
bookmaker had -150

Bodog is a crap establishment, deals dual lines, lies about it and limits severely
Sportsbook ... don't know them personally but read too many horror stories to trust them
Jazz doesn't pay ?
5Dimes has limited me to peanuts
Bookmaker !!! in my experience never had competitive odds

[durito]

yet you trust matchbook lol

[Hareeba!]

yet you trust matchbook lol

never had a bad experience with payouts ... always very quick to pay me

and other than the former US players I've never seen any complaint about them regarding payment

[Thremp]

Really? The stopped payouts for several weeks and lied about it. Oh. "Old management". Wait. So the only track record new management has is the maze of idiocy or lies MBMike spews? Whoops!

For an appropriate sum, I could cite everything I claimed. Oh wait. We already went over that. You welched. You refused to contact anyone to mediate or act as an escrow and disagree with what a dictionary defines words as. Oh... And you're busto. Oops!

You have a delusional view of the offshore market that you don't participate in other than a couple books which you outright lie about (poorly) to provide a falsified view of their safety. You're not taken seriously by anyone in the know and most people who interact with you are either outright paid posters (jjgold) or do so for their own ongoing entertainment (durito). Its hard to take someone seriously who doesn't play in books he claims to know about, nor has any tangible experience with winning. If you've been betting for 30 years, and don't have millions, you're incompetent.

[Thremp]

Its interesting that a 4c difference (which would comprise over half the professional's ROI, oh wait... you have no clue what a professional makes) would be of little interest. Beyond that, donjaun's list was not "odd exceptions" its a fairly exhaustive list on how many people make low 6 figure incomes. Because its beyond your level of understanding just speaks for your intellect, not the reality of the world.

[Justin7]

Hareeba,

You're out of your league here.

The golden rule: the more you can bet at a number, the tougher that number is to beat. The smaller obscure books offer more EV (as a percentage of the bet) *because* the limits are lower. When limits get high, the sport's number becomes efficient, meaning unbeatable in the long run.

I'd rather take $500 on an off-market number than $50000 at MB or Betfair with a 1-cent spread with no commission an hour before gametime. If you think the entire market is wrong on a liquid market (meaning 20k+ at a given bet), you're simply wrong. Betfair's liquidity makes it harder to beat.

And if you haven't done your rounds with Bodog, or Betonline, or SIA, you're leaving money on the table.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba,

You're out of your league here.

The golden rule: the more you can bet at a number, the tougher that number is to beat. The smaller obscure books offer more EV (as a percentage of the bet) *because* the limits are lower. When limits get high, the sport's number becomes efficient, meaning unbeatable in the long run.

I'd rather take $500 on an off-market number than $50000 at MB or Betfair with a 1-cent spread with no commission an hour before gametime. If you think the entire market is wrong on a liquid market (meaning 20k+ at a given bet), you're simply wrong. Betfair's liquidity makes it harder to beat.

And if you haven't done your rounds with Bodog, or Betonline, or SIA, you're leaving money on the table.

Thanks but I'll stick with books I can trust Justin.
I've never lost a cent through a book's failure and don't intend to start now.