[donjuan]

Ok, now perhaps you'd like to explain in what way a non-US player might likely benefit from maintaining funds in an account at one of the US serving books in a way he couldn't at all the other books available to him ?

To name a few:

Basic Strategy Teasers
Props (particularly on American sports)
Openers on American sports
Steam
Getting down more volume on pretty much anything

[Hareeba!]

To name a few:

Basic Strategy Teasers
Props (particularly on American sports)
Openers on American sports
Steam
Getting down more volume on pretty much anything

okay perhaps you're correct on some of those at least
however the number of non Americans playing teasers would be very low indeed - very few have even heard of them let alone understand them
to a lesser extent the same goes for the props and openers
steam ? not sure about that but not one of my vices so whatever
more volume ... maybe added volume but at what odds - other than Greek's MLB MLs the odds would be pretty ordinary by comparison?

okay I should have said very few non US based sports bettors would have need to play at those books .. there are always exceptions to every general rule
but given the added risk now re payment options they would need to see some pretty significant advantages

[donjuan]

okay perhaps you're correct on some of those at least
however the number of non Americans playing teasers would be very low indeed - very few have even heard of them let alone understand them
to a lesser extent the same goes for the props and openers
steam ? not sure about that but not one of my vices so whatever
more volume ... maybe added volume but at what odds - other than Greek's MLB MLs the odds would be pretty ordinary by comparison?

okay I should have said very few non US based sports bettors would have need to play at those books .. there are always exceptions to every general rule
but given the added risk now re payment options they would need to see some pretty significant advantages

I know plenty of people overseas who bet on US sports and make the types of bets I listed above because they're where they find +EV bets. Now most overseas players may not do this but to say

In regard to this topic, all I can recall saying is that non-US players have no need to maintain accounts with any of the US serving books as they offer nothing beyond what they can get at the best books on the planet.

is just blatantly wrong.

[Hareeba!]

I know plenty of people overseas who bet on US sports and make the types of bets I listed above because they're where they find +EV bets. Now most overseas players may not do this but to say



is just blatantly wrong.

I've already conceded that there are exceptions to what I said by way of a general rule.

Some, but a very small minority of non-US based punters are interested in those types of bets.

[lt56]

The "land if the free' sucks right now; it's like a dictatorship. Much of the fun of betting and hitting is ruined because it's such a pain to deposit and withdraw. So I keep some money in account and only withdraw if I hit big. ALL the politicians suck in America and it's getting worse; not better. Off shore sites need to come up with new options

[TheGuesser]

The books who come out on the other side of this and don't panic will be powerhouses in 5 years.

They already are.

[durito]

Ok, now perhaps you'd like to explain in what way a non-US based sports bettor might likely benefit from maintaining funds in an account at one of the US serving books in a way he couldn't at all the other books available to him ?

are you ******* serious?

[Hareeba!]

are you ******* serious?

once again you deride me yet provide no argument in support of whatever view you hold

[durito]

once again you deride me yet provide no argument in support of whatever view you hold

how about making massive sums of money

[Hareeba!]

how about making massive sums of money

I'm all for that but how ?

Non-US players can get the best odds and highest limits without using US serving books (save perhaps for some of those remote examples already provided by DonJuan)

Are you really incapable of providing any argument against what I've posted or are you only interested in pouring crap on me for the hell of it ?

[donjuan]

I'm all for that but how ?

Non-US players can get the best odds and highest limits without using US serving books (save perhaps for some of those remote examples already provided by DonJuan)

Are you really incapable of providing any argument against what I've posted or are you only interested in pouring crap on me for the hell of it ?

Remote examples? GTFO. Your examples are the remote ones with absurd specificity:

Tennis and soccer WA lines with high limits. Nothing else.

[Hareeba!]

Remote examples? GTFO. Your examples are the remote ones with absurd specificity:

Tennis and soccer WA lines with high limits. Nothing else.

everything else:
golf
rugby
cricket
AFL
NRL
F1
US pro sports (other than props and teasers etc)
horse and dog racing
and many many more

absurd specificity ???

[donjuan]

everything else:
golf
rugby
cricket
AFL
NRL
F1
US pro sports (other than props and teasers etc)
horse and dog racing
and many many more

absurd specificity ???

US pro sports? You sure about that one?

[Hareeba!]

US pro sports? You sure about that one?

certainly

tell me where you can get odds as good as at Matchbook and limits as high as at Pinnacle

[donjuan]

certainly

tell me where you can get odds as good as at Matchbook and limits as high as at Pinnacle

You're right, Pinnacle and Matchbook open lines on US sports.

[harlee71]

Nice post for Tony @5dimes

[Intuitive_Edge]

The larger shops are being watched , that doesnt mean they will stop booking;for them to seize that business they would have to go into europe ask permission to steal a URL away, and then try and find all of their money ..not happening.

You are clearly underestimating the power of the DOJ. While i agree that history is a potential indicator of what can happen down the road, the situation is much different than 2000 or the Neteller days. Sure M/O's cheque/ **/** are probably untouchable unlist blacklisted, but that hampers things to a ridiculous degree. Its gonna be interesting to see what happens. The whole situation is a fuking hassle for most i would think including the poker community

[Scooter]

Over the past 2 weeks I have read nothing but posts implying that the US offshore industry is coming to an end.. it is not. This is an industry that has learned to adapt and work around the hoops that have been presented to it .

URLs were seized thats about it , and the truth of it is some of you here forget that this is the bookmaking business even your local guy can get busted in a sting and you wont get paid.

Beted.com simply did not want to go to BetEd.ag beted.eu etc etc a shame to say the least but over the course of 10 years we have seen countless shops open and close , people who read these blogs are informed enough to determine in which shops the risk is greater than others.

This all went down due to excessive CC use and the fact that its not secret the DOJ has out it for a few shops in particular , they want the money they want to freeze the fat bank accounts and they want to put fear in your head ..which they have done.

Betonsports , Cascade , Neteller , PrePaid ATM etc etc .. every single time that happened people would panic yet here we are... when neteller went down I remember the posts it was like reading a Nostradamus book or the same with Betonsports...yet here we are.

Why people complaint about not being able to use e wallets in the US after the legislation is beyond me it is obvious these e wallets were working underground and some risk would be involved .. yet the moment something goes wrong all of you start crying wolf.

Now not to say the recent events have not taught us anything but , the ones over the past 10 years have taught me something.. use certain methods as crazy as it sounds these are the ones that have been around the longest and still prevail.

Some of you have not been exposed to this business for long or the inside of it so as soon as something goes wrong it does not mean it is over.

The larger shops are being watched , that doesnt mean they will stop booking;for them to seize that business they would have to go into europe ask permission to steal a URL away, and then try and find all of their money ..not happening.

The one thing I have to say is bad news to you CC depositors back to reality and back to walking 10 minutes to get your action aside from that...business as usual

I find this post worthless.

There should be a way to deduct points from a poster who puts up meaningless babble.

Without a doubt, things are increasingly worse in the USA and have been for a long time.

"Over the past 2 weeks I have read nothing but posts implying that the US offshore industry is coming to an end.. it is not."

Ok, great, I'm relieved. An anonymous putz puts up his first post on an internet forum and makes a guess about the future, without a shred of additional knowledge or insight.

[durito]

certainly

tell me where you can get odds as good as at Matchbook and limits as high as at Pinnacle

Every bet i make is at a better price than pinny or matchbook offers. Who wants to bet at the market price?

[goblue12]

-EV coin flippers who want to lose their $$$ slower than if they were betting elsewhere.

[Hareeba!]

Every bet i make is at a better price than pinny or matchbook offers. Who wants to bet at the market price?

abject failure to answer the question once again

so you have some place you can get better odds than Pinnacle and Matchbook!
great, you either have a very low number of bets per year or have access to a place most non-US punters don't know about - that doesn't make my statement wrong for the vast majority of non-US punters

[neverstoppers23]

The best answer is that they're small-minded idiots.

They say they have two concerns. One is of an actual fix that destroy the integrity of the sport, and the other is that every wacky thing that happens at the end of a game and reverses the pointspread winner will feed conspiracy theories.

Don't tell me how bookmakers are friends to the game's integrity, I get that. I'm just saying what they say.

Its all the major sports in the USA. I remember when some state out east wanted to legalize sports gambling in their new casino. And boy the the NFl, NBA, MLB jump all over it. Making all kinds of empty threats.

[lt56]

For many in America; it is the end of offshore betting because it's not fun winning and then leaving the money offshore in fear of losing and having to go through the ropes of depositing again. So Americans win and don't collect and lose incentive to play offshore. The tougher it is to deposit and withdraw; the less many Americans will want to play.

[durito]

abject failure to answer the question once again

so you have some place you can get better odds than Pinnacle and Matchbook!
great, you either have a very low number of bets per year or have access to a place most non-US punters don't know about - that doesn't make my statement wrong for the vast majority of non-US punters

I make about 15,000 bets a year. Yes you get limited kicked out of most books, but 100k is a nice take away.

[deeshen13]

For many in America; it is the end of offshore betting because it's not fun winning and then leaving the money offshore in fear of losing and having to go through the ropes of depositing again. So Americans win and don't collect and lose incentive to play offshore. The tougher it is to deposit and withdraw; the less many Americans will want to play.

Exactly. I think it is important for the big offshore sites to maintain quick, relatively hassle free methods of depositing and withdrawing.

[Trident]

To talk some sense into people and if you have been around since 05 then you know im right

[Hareeba!]

I make about 15,000 bets a year. Yes you get limited kicked out of most books, but 100k is a nice take away.

Interesting but still fails to answer where you can regularly get better odds than at Pinnacle and Matchbook amongst US serving books.

[donjuan]

Interesting but still fails to answer where you can regularly get better odds than at Pinnacle and Matchbook amongst US serving books.

Lol

[wtt0315]

its not the end i agree but its the beginning of something bad for us players

[Hareeba!]

its not the end i agree but its the beginning of something bad for us players

more of a continuation rather than a beginning I would have thought

[John Dough]

more of a continuation rather than a beginning I would have thought

Agree 100%. The only "new" aspect is the domain seizures, and that doesn't seem to be much of a problem. Processors have been disappearing for many years, books have been indicted before (they're located in foreign countries for a reason), etc.

The industry as a whole has steadily gotten worse for U.S. bettors over the years, especially post-UIGEA, but it has survived nonetheless.

[PoweRay]

Wonder if all the other A books are getting alternate domains just in case they lose their dot coms too.

[bobbywaves]

Business as usual for those of us Americans who got setup with european books

How does an American go about getting setup with a non US friendly book, such as Pinnacle?

[Thremp]

I'm a Euro who almost never plays at Euro books. I make more money than almost anyone posting in this thread.

Most of the comments by Hareeba are naive since he's never actually bet more than a sockful of nickels on sports. MB has virtually no volume on anything I'm interested in betting. Pinnacle actually has significantly smaller limits on some events I'm interested in betting. When you spend less time being a poseur on the internet and more time making money for rent, you'll understand.

[Hareeba!]

. I make more money than almost anyone posting in this thread.

who's the poseur ?

Most of the comments by Hareeba are naive since he's never actually bet more than a sockful of nickels on sports.

So you'd know that for a fact would you?
I've never claimed to be a whale like you have. I've told you my absolute max. wager is $5k. If that's a sockful of nickels to you, you've got f***ing large feet. But who cares?

MB has virtually no volume on anything I'm interested in betting. Pinnacle actually has significantly smaller limits on some events I'm interested in betting. When you spend less time being a poseur on the internet and more time making money for rent, you'll understand.

What I still don't understand is where a punter can get better odds and larger limits amongst US serving books than they could at MB and Pinnacle because having asked the question repeatedly all I can get is smartarse responses from Durito and Thremp which are utterly useless to anyone.