[WVU]

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Mario'
Mario: Hello. How may I assist you today?
casino player: is Tony around?
Mario: Can you please confirm your account number and password?
casino player: i just need to talk to Tony
Mario: Are you a customer? I need at least your name.
casino player: My name is xxx
casino player: Tony will want to talk to me I can assure you
Mario: Let me check if he is available.
casino player: ok thanks
Mario: Let me transfer you.
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Tony'.
You are now chatting with 'Tony'
Tony: greetings
casino player: hi Tony
Tony: how can I help you today?
casino player: serious question for you concerning your casino
Tony: sure, go ahead
casino player: Do you guarantee that if I win that I will get paid my winnings 100%?
Tony: no
casino player: no?
Tony: you asked a question, i answered it
Tony: you don't even have an account number
Tony: so i can't guarantee you anything
casino player: so if I play in your casino and win say $4000 then I may or may not get paid?
Tony: what game are you playing?
casino player: why does that matter? Aren't all your games legit?
Tony: all games are legit
casino player: thats what i needed to hear
Tony: you just looking for a post for a posting forum
Tony: or do you have an account with us?
casino player: I do
Tony: what is your account number?
casino player: Have you talked to Lou recently?
Tony: lou was in touch with one of the other managers
casino player: I tried to warn you through him that I believe I can beat one of your games. I just want to know that I will get paid if I do. I am a legit player
Tony: i told him that if the game did have an 108% payout we'd give you $1000
Tony: so you can choose to play, and we'll see if you make it to $1000
casino player: so you know what i am referring to. That's good
casino player: what do you mean by that?
Tony: or you can tell me the game, and if i verify the game in its current state is paying 108%
Tony: well, i'll be watching
casino player: didn't you already verify your own payouts?
Tony: as i've been watching all the casino games with a fine toothed comb since the prior incidents
Tony: obviously a mistake was made, or you wouldn't be here
casino player: so then you are convinced every game is good then?
Tony: or, you're the one who calculated wrong
Tony: not as much as i was this morning
casino player: I am just trying to save us both a headache.
Tony: well, the other side of the headache is you being wrong
Tony: and losing
Tony: and i don't want any doubt
casino player: that is true
Tony: so if you tell me the game, i can go over my math
casino player: but if i win, do i get paid?
Tony: and you can tell me how yours differs
Tony: and one of us can learn something
casino player: Maybe I just feel lucky?
Tony: maybe you've got nothing at all
Tony: i don't know
casino player: All I want to know is that if i play the game legitimately then will i get paid legitimately?
Tony: i'd prefer giving you $1000 if you're correct about a game being out of line
Tony: rather than you playing and there being a "headache"
Tony: but rest assured, winnings will be honored
casino player: that's all I needed to hear
casino player: Thank you for taking the time to talk to me
Tony: so you're fishing, or you have a game to go over?
Tony: as if you calculated something at 108%
Tony: i'm sure someone else would have found it by now
casino player: You think so?
Tony: so i'd rather show you that your math is wrong
Tony: than have you go in and lose
casino player: I am usually that "somebody"
Tony: "yes", i think so
Tony: judging from your play history, you're not that "somebody"
casino player: I have been doing this for a long time
Tony: so have i
casino player: so you have my play history?
Tony: that i do
casino player: and how did you get that?
Tony: maybe i do, maybe i don't
Tony: now i'm playing the same game you're playing
casino player: so my play history will tell you that I am legit, no?
Tony: you tell me your account number, and then we'll know
casino player: I wouldn't waste my time with this if I was going to tell you everything. $1000 is not going to cut it
Tony: then you take your best shot, and i'll be watching
casino player: I even offered to look over all your payouts for you a few weeks ago
Tony: when did that happen?
Tony: never spoke to me about it
casino player: I asked that you get the message from Lou
casino player: not sure if you did or not
Tony: when you want to talk to me
Tony: you talk to me
Tony: i didn't know Lou was my secretary
casino player: lol
casino player: me either
casino player: but evidentally he gets messages to you or you would not even know what I am talking about
Tony: doesn't make him a secretary
Tony: next time you want to tell me "something"
Tony: best way is to tell me
casino player: no, it makes him a messenger, hence the reason I gave him the message. get it?
Tony: no, i don't
casino player: I have a long history with advantage play. I am just trying to cover my bases
Tony: nice to hear
Tony: tell you what i'll do for you
casino player: And it looks like I am covered here.
Tony: i'll put a rule in right now
casino player: ok
casino player: what rule
Tony: "Any game paying over 107% by perfect play will not have any play honored that wins or loses"
Tony: now are my bases covered?
casino player: If you want to look like a fool, then by all means post that rule
Tony: i already look like a fool
Tony: and AM one for making mistakes on the payouts
Tony: what more could this hurt?
casino player: not going to debate that. You have had a rough month
casino player: so instead of trying to discover your error (if it even is one) you would rather post a silly rule that you void payouts when they exceed 107%
Tony: i have no idea how to "discover" it
Tony: other than monitor play
Tony: and wait for you to "make your move"
Tony: unless you have some other plan?
casino player: Have you run your payouts through calculators?
Tony: no, i use a donkey and a monkey to hit a button repeatedly
casino player: Can I ask you if this is a trap?
Tony: you really think i'm putting up games that pay more than 101% on purpose?
casino player: i would hope not
Tony: and i want all the exposure for doing so
casino player: but it has happened 3 times now
Tony: you hope?
Tony: 3 times?
casino player: yes
Tony: i'm only aware of 2 games
casino player: This would make the third
Tony: one that was wrong
Tony: then you tell me what i should do
casino player: maybe hire someone who knows what they are doing with casino games?
Tony: i do
Tony: i think i did a great job designing all the games
Tony: i made a mistake on one
casino player: do you set the payouts yourself personally?
Tony: and we have no idea how the inital issue happened
Tony: as those payouts are not listed on my calculations
casino player: designing the games? you are a programmer for the software company?
Tony: so all passwords for casino access were changed
Tony: i design all the tables for the payouts of every game we have in all the casinos we have
Tony: i am not a programmer, though i run a team of them for this company
casino player: so then if there is a mistake, then essentially you are to blame?
Tony: and mathematics of payouts had nothing to do with programming
Tony: the mistake with the level payout aces and eights was an entry error of the payouts
Tony: as the internet showed the correct paytable
Tony: it was the game itself that had payouts listed for JJ QQ KK AA
Tony: as well as 3 of a kind, that should have had payouts of zero
casino player: so by designing the games, you mean that you click the little boxes that enable you to change the payout from 1000 coins to 800 coins for example?
Tony: that was my mistake personally
Tony: i can change any payable of any game
Tony: but entering those payouts on the system
casino player: of course, but is that really "designing" the game itself?
Tony: who's to say a game should pay 95%
Tony: when i can change payouts and make it 99%
casino player: understood. It is nice to have that flexibility in the software. But to claim you design the game is a bit far fetched, no?
Tony: i design the revised payouts
Tony: if i mis-spoke, that is what i meant
Tony: i designed the rebates in the rebate casino
casino player: yeah that is a wee bit different than claiming to design the game itself
casino player: glad we got that straightened out
casino player: I am not here to be a hardass, really
Tony: i am the designer of the paytables of MY games
Tony: that work better for you?
Tony: yes, you are here to be a hardass
Tony: lets not mistake that
casino player: I just wanted to confirm that you are good for it if I happen to win on one of your casino games
Tony: only games that are designed to pay over 100% are the progressive slot machines
Tony: and the two video poker games we run on promos
Tony: personally, i think you're just here to shake a tree, and you've found nothing
Tony: but you managed to get me to talk for quite a bit about nothing, so that makes you a winner
casino player: Well I will throw you a bone here
Tony: pavlov's dog is here salivating
casino player: I will not do anything at all until at least next Tuesday. Feel free to revise your payouts from now until then. After that I will proceed with my intentions. I can only hope you do not choose to disable my account and/or stiff me on any payout
Tony: if you found something, you can be rest assured your account will be disabled
Tony: but you've found nothing
casino player: how will you know i am not just winning? Dont you ever have any winners?
Tony: or you would have already tested your thoery
Tony: 108% isn't hard to spot
casino player: that would be dumb. you and I both know that
Tony: you've got nothing
casino player: We shall see
casino player: good day, Sir. Thank for taking time out to talk to me
Tony: thanks for your help

[Pareto]

casino player: Have you run your payouts through calculators?
Tony: no, i use a donkey and a monkey to hit a button repeatedly



Great transcript. Its gonna be interesting to see how this turns out.

[robertg]

thats actually the most humble and almost human i've ever seen tony. Not nearly as confident in himself as God as usual.

[Santo]

casino player: how will you know i am not just winning? Dont you ever have any winners?

WVU: Frankly I'd take the $1000 and tell him. It's likely the most you're going to get. Clearly he's just going to check the play records on any decent sized casino balance increases.

robertg: I've found Tony reasonable on the few occasions I have spoken too him. If you go into a situation amicably and without trying to get one over he's fine. He's just been caricatured by the forum.

[durito]

Tony has a rough life.

[WVU]

thats actually the most humble and almost human i've ever seen tony. Not nearly as confident in himself as God as usual.

agreed. At least I got him to admit that he didn't actually "design" the games.

[LostBankroll]

Tonie Williams is a punk bitch.

[PoweRay]

The free $1000 might of been the better option compared to Tony making a new rule of "Any game paying over 107% by perfect play will not have any play honored that wins or loses". He's probable adding in that new rule right now.

[WVU]

WVU: Frankly I'd take the $1000 and tell him. It's likely the most you're going to get. Clearly he's just going to check the play records on any decent sized casino balance increases.

.

I thought about it for about 10 seconds. Then I decided that either I would get stiffed on the $1000 or my account will be disabled or both. At least I have all this on record that I gave a strong effort towards warning him beforehand.

This is not something he will catch easily. He has a week.

[WVU]

The free $1000 might of been the better option compared to Tony making a new rule of "Any game paying over 107% by perfect play will not have any play honored that wins or loses". He's probable adding in that new rule right now.

If anyone notices the insertion of his new rediculous rule, be sure to add to this thread.

[boatboatboat]

if 5 dimes makes an error and has a game at +108 and they don't realize that. if i go and play the game and lose 300 dollars, and I also don't know it's a +108 game, how will 5 dimes not "honor" my loss, if neither of us know the payout is set at +108 by mistake?

[Santo]

You could likely work that out beforehand, and if he reneges he'll take the reputation hit you're looking for. If he doesn't, you get $1k.

From your wording I guess it's related to a bonus/double-up type situation. Unless you have a current reason to be otherwise, adversarial relationships have been less profitable for me than cordial ones -- just my two cents.

[shari91]

WVU, truthfully did you giggle at all during any portion of that chat? Just from reading it, I had a few good laughs from things you both said.

I actually think you should talk to him privately about helping him out if you're still interested in that idea. Not sure if you would be but his response to you about it gave me the impression at least that he'd be open to it.

[WVU]

Shari, I actually enjoyed that conversation with Tony and yes I did chuckle along the way. He seemed human and wasn't opposed to admitting he makes mistakes. There was a hint of his "asshole" personality, but I would be disappointed if I didn't get to witness that. I tried to be as codial as possible, but I also have a bit of "asshole" in me as you can probably ascertain.

[WVU]

casino player: I asked that you get the message from Lou
casino player: not sure if you did or not
Tony: when you want to talk to me
Tony: you talk to me
Tony: i didn't know Lou was my secretary
casino player: lol
casino player: me either
casino player: but evidentally he gets messages to you or you would not even know what I am talking about
Tony: doesn't make him a secretary
Tony: next time you want to tell me "something"
Tony: best way is to tell me
casino player: no, it makes him a messenger, hence the reason I gave him the message. get it?


my favorite part

[ThisGuy]

Of course it was, big man ITT

[Fa11en]

I get that you wanted assurance to a +EV score but this conversation and the subsequent posting does not seem very helpful for your cause and I agree with Santo on this one. You seem like a bright guy and your posts are usually substantial but it appears that you are more concerned about winning a battle of wits with Tony then actually insuring your success.

[cyberinvestor]

casino player: Have you run your payouts through calculators? Tony: no, i use a donkey and a monkey to hit a button repeatedly Great transcript. Its gonna be interesting to see how this turns out.

This was classic. I would bet at 5Dimes just for this comment. Made me fall out of the chair.

[boatboatboat]

small man sin-drom

[WVU]

I get that you wanted assurance to a +EV score but this conversation and the subsequent posting does not seem very helpful for your cause and I agree with Santo on this one. You seem like a bright guy and your posts are usually substantial but it appears that you are more concerned about winning a battle of wits with Tony then actually insuring your success.

You and Santo are correct. I enjoy a battle of wits. How would you have gone about this? $1000 is not a score IMO. Beating them for 5 figures is a score. My chances of collecting on a win like this at this shop are better than before I started this thread. Wouldn't you agree?

Maybe Tony figures this out and maybe he doesn't. Maybe he covers his ass with that absurd statement of not paying out if PA > 7%. Either way, I have lost nothing but time spent finding an advantage.

Santo always knows what's up. He has for as long as I have known him on these forums.

[Dark Horse]

Tony: then you tell me what i should do
casino player: maybe hire someone who knows what they are doing with casino games?
Tony: i do
Tony: i think i did a great job designing all the games
Tony: i made a mistake on one
casino player: do you set the payouts yourself personally?
Tony: and we have no idea how the inital issue happened
Tony: as those payouts are not listed on my calculations
casino player: designing the games? you are a programmer for the software company?
Tony: so all passwords for casino access were changed
Tony: i design all the tables for the payouts of every game we have in all the casinos we have
Tony: i am not a programmer, though i run a team of them for this company
casino player: so then if there is a mistake, then essentially you are to blame?
Tony: and mathematics of payouts had nothing to do with programming
Tony: the mistake with the level payout aces and eights was an entry error of the payouts
Tony: as the internet showed the correct paytable
Tony: it was the game itself that had payouts listed for JJ QQ KK AA
Tony: as well as 3 of a kind, that should have had payouts of zero
casino player: so by designing the games, you mean that you click the little boxes that enable you to change the payout from 1000 coins to 800 coins for example?
Tony: that was my mistake personally
Tony: i can change any payable of any game
Tony: but entering those payouts on the system
casino player: of course, but is that really "designing" the game itself?
Tony: who's to say a game should pay 95%
Tony: when i can change payouts and make it 99%
casino player: understood. It is nice to have that flexibility in the software. But to claim you design the game is a bit far fetched, no?
Tony: i design the revised payouts
Tony: if i mis-spoke, that is what i meant
Tony: i designed the rebates in the rebate casino
casino player: yeah that is a wee bit different than claiming to design the game itself
casino player: glad we got that straightened out
casino player: I am not here to be a hardass, really
Tony: i am the designer of the paytables of MY games
Tony: that work better for you?
Tony: yes, you are here to be a hardass
Tony: lets not mistake that
casino player: I just wanted to confirm that you are good for it if I happen to win on one of your casino games
Tony: only games that are designed to pay over 100% are the progressive slot machines
Tony: and the two video poker games we run on promos

That's pretty good info. In case there was any question, online casino games can be adjusted to any setting.

[Fa11en]

Without knowing the allowed bets or specifics of your find, it seems that the time you would have to put in it and risked funds would be worth attempting to go on your run. I am also assuming that the casino audits will be more frequent now than ever, making it more difficult for a sustained run. I think you come off looking more like a master if you collect the k for no time commitment and reveal the wizard behind the payout table calculations was wrong. It does appear that it is not a straight up +EV payout so that would invalidate Tony's offer anyhow.

[BigDaddy]

i think you need to take the 1k

you already showed part of your hand and i don't see how you can get anymore out of it.

i know you are a smart guy but if you really felt no risk was involved where taking the 1k right now is not worth it i would have never made this thread to begin with.

just like the 12.5% edge it had huge swings

JMO

[Lo$t]

[JoeVig]

This really does tell the tale. Any casino game can be voided at any time for incorrect pay table. What's to keep him from voiding a nice winning streak on a 99% payout game, then saying "It should have been 97%".

[robmpink]

Did you use a proxy when doing the live chat? If not, don't play at the same ip address. They have it tracked.

[big joe 1212]

this is all nonsense!

why not just hit a little at a time and keep cashing out? this way when they do catch on, you have a lot of their money already.

when you make large requests for withdrawals, it will raise some eyebrows!

[durito]

Did you use a proxy when doing the live chat? If not, don't play at the same ip address. They have it tracked.

[Grandmaster B]

WVU

crush their mickey mouse online casino for as much as you can

then come back to all the forums and report back when they stiff yet again

[Killakrzydav]

Message boy

[lt56]

Tony called your bluff and you had nothing. He offered $1,000, but no games had mistakes. There was no game with 8.3% player edge when you began this post. Nothing else will come of this bs thread.

[blix177]

Tony called your bluff and you had nothing. He offered $1,000, but no games had mistakes. There was no game with 8.3% player edge when you began this post. Nothing else will come of this bs thread.

Not really, 4 points came from this tread, or this post.

[Bartmeister]

Tony called your bluff and you had nothing. He offered $1,000, but no games had mistakes. There was no game with 8.3% player edge when you began this post. Nothing else will come of this bs thread.

WVU has a lot more credibility than you think. He is not bluffing and he gave the forums a heads-up way before posting here.. If he was bluffing he would of taken the easy 1K don't you think? He can make a lot more on this glitch than the 1K. Of course getting paid by Tony is the hard part, glitch or bot, as Tony does whatever the hell he wants as far as paying anyone. What a great industry this is. The books can just change the rules as they go along and after the fact.

[LegitBet]

Wow
I must say WVU you are one very impressive man. Leaps and bounds ahead of the minutia (sp) here.
Would I love to talk to you, any chance you play chess?

You ever wonder how so many can be so sadly dumb.. Thoughts and strategies that appear to you so effortlessly must intrigue you equally that so many 'little brains' (allusion from great movie 'defending your life' w/Albert Brooks ) just are in a different stadium playing a child's game and here you are, doing what you are so gifted with, ability and smarts to be real 'Advatage Player'.

[horja1]

casino player: Have you run your payouts through calculators?
Tony: no, i use a donkey and a monkey to hit a button repeatedly



Great transcript. Its gonna be interesting to see how this turns out.

You joke about this but I think that might actually be the truth ... would explain the latest 5Dimes events