[Dr.Gonzo]

mrmarket, while I agree with you generally that high expendable incomes = more to spend on gambling and will skew the results, the sad fact is that anyone who lives in Australia will probably be willing to lay a nice wager that a large chunk of our figure comes from low to very low income people who are playing slot machines.

"Mr Wilkie (an Aussie MP) said Australians lost around $14 million a day through poker machines and there were 95,000 people seriously addicted.

'Australia has almost 200,000 poker machines which are among the most dangerous in the world," Mr Wilkie said.

'People routinely lose $1200 an hour gambling on pokies in Australia because they're high-intensity machines with high bet limits, fast games, big jackpots and substantial cash load up capacity."

That's what Alt's picture is referencing: Centrelink is the national welfare organisation; pokies = slots. It's a massive problem here, to the point that ATM's located in pubs with slots have a limit on how much you can withdraw each day and now the Prime Minister has said she's going to pass legislation where you'd need to use a Smart Card with a pre-set limit on it in order to use this machines so it limits the amount you can lose per day. It's an epidemic here.

You've been listening to too much bullshit Shari.

Wilkie is a nutter and the only reason this is being looked at is because it is a minority government.

Same reason for the carbon tax. The government dissolves without the Green's backing.

[beermankirk]

But how much do the Aussies win? You never know.

[mrmarket]

mrmarket, while I agree with you generally that high expendable incomes = more to spend on gambling and will skew the results, the sad fact is that anyone who lives in Australia will probably be willing to lay a nice wager that a large chunk of our figure comes from low to very low income people who are playing slot machines.

"Mr Wilkie (an Aussie MP) said Australians lost around $14 million a day through poker machines and there were 95,000 people seriously addicted.

'Australia has almost 200,000 poker machines which are among the most dangerous in the world," Mr Wilkie said.

'People routinely lose $1200 an hour gambling on pokies in Australia because they're high-intensity machines with high bet limits, fast games, big jackpots and substantial cash load up capacity."

That's what Alt's picture is referencing: Centrelink is the national welfare organisation; pokies = slots. It's a massive problem here, to the point that ATM's located in pubs with slots have a limit on how much you can withdraw each day and now the Prime Minister has said she's going to pass legislation where you'd need to use a Smart Card with a pre-set limit on it in order to use this machines so it limits the amount you can lose per day. It's an epidemic here.

I don't know much about the gambling scene in Australia so I can't comment on the environment or participants. I'm not saying that Australians wouldn't be high on the list either which may or may not be the case. What I am saying is that as a percentage of income they would certainly not be in the top 1-5.

I was listening to a poker podcast once (2+2 Pokercast I think?) where they were chronicling the High Stakes Cash Games that were going on during a Asia Pacific Poker Tour tournament in Macau. The hosts interviewed the Poker Room manager as the Casino Grand Lisboa and they were asking him if that type of action was commonplace and he said it was like that pretty much at any time of year.

Anyway somehow the show got into a conversation discussing the stereotype that Asian gamblers tend to be the most "degenerate". The Poker Room manager said that the people gambling in the casino have to have between 25%-75% of their Net Worth in play at a time. Having any less is considered a cultural Faux-Pas. He said this was standard at all the casinos in the region and held true for most parts of Asia he had worked/been to as well.

[Alt75]

Alt

You're right though - it's the pokies that are sucking away people's money. Can't believe how popular they are here.

I thought you'd have a laugh at that, there's another Typical Aussie meme that's captioned "Put $100 in the Pokies, leave with $20... I'M UP C**T!. Didn't post it due to the c bomb.

It's ridiculous, about the only thing to do of a late night for a lot of people in Melbourne is Crown or the local suburban pokies. One of my friends is addicted I've told him for years, get a laptop you may as well randomly bet on sports from home. But he thinks he knows how the machines work. I've tried explaining the odds of leaving the pokies in front consistently is about the same as winning 1st division lotto and they are programmed to heavily favour the house. He doesn't care it's something to do in the wee hours. I often go and have a drink with him if he's at the local one within walking distance, it's hilarious and sad talking to people and their pokie systems, favourite machine, knowing when machines will pay off etc. Almost cult like, I think they're all a bunch of morons then come home to see if a 12 leg parlay of +ev money lines has hit

[Dr.Gonzo]

Anyway somehow the show got into a conversation discussing the stereotype that Asian gamblers tend to be the most "degenerate". The Poker Room manager said that the people gambling in the casino have to have between 25%-75% of their Net Worth in play at a time. Having any less is considered a cultural Faux-Pas.

You would assume that you could run them over given this fact but they have got balls of steel. They make -EV draw calls all day long.

[Dr.Gonzo]

I thought you'd have a laugh at that, there's another Typical Aussie meme that's captioned "Put $100 in the Pokies, leave with $20... I'M UP C**T!. Didn't post it due to the c bomb.

It's ridiculous, about the only thing to do of a late night for a lot of people in Melbourne is Crown or the local suburban pokies. One of my friends is addicted I've told him for years, get a laptop you may as well randomly bet on sports from home. But he thinks he knows how the machines work. I've tried explaining the odds of leaving the pokies in front consistently is about the same as winning 1st division lotto and they are programmed to heavily favour the house. He doesn't care it's something to do in the wee hours. I often go and have a drink with him if he's at the local one within walking distance, it's hilarious and sad talking to people and their pokie systems, favourite machine, knowing when machines will pay off etc. Almost cult like, I think they're all a bunch of morons then come home to see if a 12 leg parlay of +ev money lines has hit

Save the guy some money and explain how the machines work. Don't just tell him he won't win. These morons think machines are due to pay out based on the game history. Little do they know the machine plays a thousand games a second and their isn't one. It is like trying to count cards at blackjack when they have an continuous shuffle machine, only more retarded.

[mrmarket]

You would assume that you could run them over given this fact but they have got balls of steel. They make -EV draw calls all day long.

Mathematics don't factor into the decision. It's all based on superstition and the obsession with luck that seems to be culturally ingrained.

[shari91]

You've been listening to too much bullshit Shari. Wilkie is a nutter and the only reason this is being looked at is because it is a minority government. Same reason for the carbon tax. The government dissolves without the Green's backing.

Yeah he's a nutter but this is from the Australian: "The Gillard government has pledged to introduce a poker machine pre-commitment scheme under its minority government agreement with Tasmanian Independent Andrew Wilkie, who today welcomed the committee's report." And it says it'll be in place by 2014. So what do you think? She passes it and if she gets booted in '13 it will be rescinded?

I don't personally like the idea but it seems to have some support with the public.

[Alt75]

Save the guy some money and explain how the machines work. Don't just tell him he won't win. These morons think machines are due to pay out based on the game history. Little do they know the machine plays a thousand games a second and their isn't one. It is like trying to count cards at blackjack when they have an continuous shuffle machine, only more retarded.

I've pretty much gotten to the point I don't bother any more, when he's over whatever I pull up from google to try and convince him to stop wasting money he doesn't pay any attention to. He's completely computer illiterate, doesn't or has never even played console games, any time I try to mention the technical side, he just kind of laughs and tells me to stop being a nerd. Worst was when I was babbling on about how pokies suck, he's wasting money this is boring as hell. He hits a 2k jackpot and convinces him he knows what he's doing. I actually seem to be more of a lucky charm than a voice of reason, mid last year I was having a drink with him whinging about how boring staring at these machines are, he wins a jackpot for a 42' LG LCD. Which he sold within a day about 50% below retail price. There's no reasoning with them, as I said they are like cult members.

[Dr.Gonzo]

Yeah he's a nutter but this is from the Australian: "The Gillard government has pledged to introduce a poker machine pre-commitment scheme under its minority government agreement with Tasmanian Independent Andrew Wilkie, who today welcomed the committee's report." And it says it'll be in place by 2014. So what do you think? She passes it and if she gets booted in '13 it will be rescinded?

I don't personally like the idea but it seems to have some support with the public.

Yes she agreed to that because she doesn't want to go to a By-election tomorrow were the government will be wiped out. This government will get destroyed at the next election so it's a moot point.

[Alt75]

To add, I'm pretty indifferent politically and basically always do donkey votes it's choosing a lesser evil or stupidity imo, but whatever State/Federal party is serious about bans/restrictions on pokies, I'm all for it and will tick the box and not draw doodles and boobies on the ballot. I swear

[shari91]

Yes she agreed to that because she doesn't want to go to a By-election tomorrow were the government will be wiped out. This government will get destroyed at the next election so it's a moot point.

I hope you're right

Alt, I have a friend like that as well and the thing is she's really rational in every other area of her life but she heads to Crown each weekend with her mother and they sit there like zombies for hours on end. The few times I've gone with them I'll just go play poker and even after 8-10hrs, they're sitting in the same spot refusing to move because they're convinced if they get up and leave "their machines", someone will sit down and hit the jackpot on their first play. It's a complete mindfukk.

[Alt75]

Yep, my mate will do a jig for 15-20 mins before he goes the toilet, when it becomes too much to bear. WATCH MY MACHINE DON'T PRESS ANYTHING, then I get interrogated when he gets back if I've touched the machine/s he's playing. Kind of in jest but you know there's some superstition driven seriousness behind it. Him and his pokie regular mates will discuss what venues have been paying off, what bank of machines etc and they'll make their decisions on which venue to go to and where to sit based on where they've seen people have big wins.

I guess for some people pokies/crown is kind of like being in Vegas/some American movie, having that feeling of being a high roller as well as thinking it's their lucky day, machine has to pay off for someone. As you probably know Melbournians had to go to like Albury on the border to play machines, typically from what I recall as a kid the only people who played them were the old farts on bus tours and when your bogan aunt and uncle went away for their anniversary, but like anything once there's a new fad for Aussies most latch on, *cough* planking *cough* It doesn't help there's several venues in each suburb basically and after 11pm or so, aside some cafe's they are the only places to get an alcoholic beverage and there are no other social outlets for shift workers/nite owls. Out of literally dozens of places around here Zagamies on Sydney rd is the only one that has access to pool tables/arcade games all night. Everywhere else is strictly gambling/booze.

[Hareeba!]

The reason Australia tops the list is more to do with the fact that so much gambling here is legal, whereas in other parts of the world some or all of it isn't so it doesn't show up in those numbers.

Further, I suspect the numbers reflect only the losses on local gambling sites? Personally, I would do a very significant part of my turnover offshore. The proportion of losses locally v offshore would vary greatly country to country depending on factors such as legality.

All in all, interesting numbers but I wouldn't be putting too much faith in them.

And yes, those idiotic pokies and lotteries are the prime contributors to the losses. They are responsible for far more "problem" gamblers than racing or sports but the pollies aren't smart enough to differentiate between gaming and wagering so slap us with stupid restraints like that on in-play online betting.