[enaduo]

Hi guys,

from the 17/09 i was placed two bets on the leonbets website with odds of 3.85

in the match of Renaissance de Berkane vs ASC Diaraf - 1 to win Renaissance de Berkane

1st bet : 88€ × 3.85 = 338,8 €
2 nd : 138 € × 3.85 = 531,3 €

here's the proof :

everythings was good until the bet was settled as win today 19/01/2019 in total of 870,1 € in my balance ; and i request a withdrawal of my funds dividing into two parts , I was surprised when they asked for a second verification even though I verify the account when I opened it,

to here i was forced to re-verify the account in order to proceed my withdrawals , i do it again and the account was verified successfully.

now here's the story , when i returned to my account i was super surprised when i see my requests of withdrawal has been cancelled due to change of the odds and the was recalculated from 3.85 to 1.41
and my balance change from 870.10€ to 318.66€


i didnt understand why , I sent an email immediately and received this reply :

	
	
Hello,

There has been a technical issue at our end during accepting of some bets. Your account's balance has changed as a result of the above mentioned erroneous bets being settled properly.

We apologize for the inconvenience caused.

i asked for an explanation and received this reply:

[CODE]

Hello,

Your bet was initially accepted at wrong odds and therefore was resettled at the average market odds after the error was discovered.

This procedure is applied only in exceptional cases when, due to some reasons, there is insufficient internal data to determine bet odds.

The average market odds are set based on general data of the major sports betting sites.[/CODE]

the odd was dropped in all bookmakers sites , and they paid their customers with no problems

I wonder what if the odd was raised up , it will be recalculated agian

[Optional]

Looking at the line history a significant change in odds did commence on 17th Jan. And Berkane went from Dog to Fave and some books did drop the market.

https://www.oddsmarket.com/football/...699642/?mtid=1


But I cannot see where average odds of 1.41 at either the time of betting, or market closing, look correct.

If you send in a Sportsbook Complaint form we can try asking them about it for you.

[lonnie55]

Here's what happened:

William Hill was the first book in the market, they made the initial odds. For whatever reason they confused 1st and 2nd leg and made the same odds in 2nd leg like in 1st leg whilst only changing the date and the pairing. So if you look at the closing line of the 1st leg the correct odds on Berkane in the return leg had have to be around 1.60.

A few minutes later some books copied the mistake of William Hill. WH realized their mistake a couple of hours later and blocked the match for betting. Then other books realized, too. At 1xbet the match was still open for betting and odds dropped heavily down to 1.80.

So far so good. These things can happen. The special twist of this story is that b365, THE #1 reference for opening odds, copied the mistake on MATCHDAY and came in with Berkane @3. The origin of these odds still was the mistake of William Hill confusing 1st and 2nd leg. No idea why b365 looked at WH and copied this mistake although the odds at 1xbet have been somewhere near fair odds at this time.

Anyway, odds dropped subsequently and closing odds were 1.40 at b365 which were also the average odds at kickoff.

To put it in a nutshell: It was a clear mistake and you took a shot because you should have known fair odds from 1st leg. I personally have no problem with that. But coming in a forum and claiming "Bookie xy is a scam" is frankly speaking pathetic in a clear case like this. Actually you should be glad the bookie paid you the winnings based on fair odds instead of voiding the whole bet.

[Optional]

Much like you, I concluded around 1.80 would have been a more proper estimate of correct odds over 2 days pre match.

[Motorhead11]

What you say is correct.

William Hill trader did a big mistake in this game that propably costed hundred of thousands in the industry.
They opened Berkane at 3.40 which was huge error. Minutes later WH pulled game. However, all bookies were keep opening lines following William Hill's wrong openning odds, even though odds were already removed from WH.

Bookies were aware that something was going on with this game. I took this game in 10 books and ALL books pulled the game seconds after my bets. So it was obvious that bookies were afraid of that game(probs a warning from data providers etc).

All my books paid fine though (at least so far). The wrong with Leonbets is that they had days to void this bet but they didn't. They voided it only after game finished which isn't fair.

This game is a clear example of how industry works btw. Thought that at least some big books have their own odds compilers but seems not. Even bet365 was clueless in this game.

[moojoo]

They didnt void,they recalculate odds which is fair. At least would be if they gave Optionals estimated odds.
But you guys betting unrealistic odds deserve being fkd by book.

[Motorhead11]

They didnt void,they recalculate odds which is fair. At least would be if they gave Optionals estimated odds.
But you guys betting unrealistic odds deserve being fkd by book.

Isn't that simple mate.

Unrealistic is when whole industry has odds 1.20 and Leonbets has 3.20. When whole industry is on 3.20, why are odds unrealistic? Because i say that?

If Bet365 pulled game and didn't adjusted odds, asians/pinnacle may had even open with wrong odds as well. Would you take advantage of it that case?

[lonnie55]

Isn't that simple mate.

Actually it is because in this case everybody could conclude fair odds from closing line of the first leg. The home team was priced with 2.25, so you automatically know that the away team has to be priced with around 1.55 - 1.65 when they play at home in the return leg (if there is no special information beyond that). It's simple math. Plus: It's African soccer It's common sense that a home team can not be a dog like that, especially when it's North Africa vs Sub-Saharan Africa.

If Bet365 pulled game and didn't adjusted odds, asians/pinnacle may had even open with wrong odds as well. Would you take advantage of it that case?

Who wouldn't?

[Optional]

Will Hill had it up a bit longer than a few minutes.

10 hours on 14th Jan.

More than 2 days before the OP bet.




And here is what Bet365 did on match day

[Motorhead11]

Odds were listed on William Hill but was impossible to stake with them. In any case, WH paid fine but they had 20 euro limits on this game so they had covered well their backs. They paid fine btw.

Smaller books with higher limits copied WH odds.

Bet365 pulled 3-4 times this game, each time they were bringing game back and they were adjusting odds until 1.80.

Then dafabet released odds in asia with 80 euro lays and odds went down to -0.75@1.38 pregame and -0.75@1.05(!) inplay.

So all in all, the question is: When whole market have wrong odds, is it fair to say that odds were listed incorrectly? How many times we see odds collapsed when asia releases odds?

Kampala was -0.5@1.90 on same tournament on books yesterday and drifted to -1@1.30 when asia released odds. Those odds were listed correctly but Berkane was listed wrong?

Imo this game was recalculated cause too many people were aware as big group with 700 people posted it, many betting services followed, then info passed to blogabet etc etc. Also, russian books were keeping this game while rest books were pulling it, so they take much more stakes on berkane. They should pulled it on time and cover their asses. Doubt if Berkane lost and you were on X2 they would have recalculated your odds.

[lonnie55]

So all in all, the question is: When whole market have wrong odds, is it fair to say that odds were listed incorrectly? How many times we see odds collapsed when asia releases odds?

It always depends. If a clear error has been copied by all other books it shows the stupidity of the industry, as you already said, but it remains a clear error.

Sometimes there are matches where teams meet for the very first time, especially at smaller tournaments. If then a book makes wrong odds which can not be considered obviously wrong (but identified being wrong by a smart player), that's a totally different situation because there is no common sense how fair odds should be.

Kampala was -0.5@1.90 on same tournament on books yesterday and drifted to -1@1.30 when asia released odds. Those odds were listed correctly but Berkane was listed wrong?

Yes, but Kampala was correctly priced with reference to first leg. They lost the first match 0-3, so bookies had a reason to believe Kampala is not that strong as they supposed them to be. But the market knew better. Kampala at home is way better than in away matches and the 0-3 defeat in the first leg was higher than it should have been. Congo teams have a weak history in CAF competitions. So the drop was totally fine as well as starting line was.

[enaduo]

I appreciate all your opinions guys, but why B365 and betfair & 1xbet.. They paid for all their customers without any problems even though they made the same mistake, i even leonbets paid to my friend with total of 800 € and after they recalculate the odd and put -500€ in his balance . In my case they canceled my withdrawals is that fair!!!

[Motorhead11]

So, if teams are met for a first time then wrong odds are considered value but if 2 teams met before then odds should be priced based on what were the odds in first game? What if odds were wrong in first game?

Berkane had lost 2-0 in first game and clueless trader priced it 3.40. Clever punter took advantage of it. That's how i see it.

Another example. Two months ago, clueless trader priced APR at 8.00 in same tournament. Market pushed it down to 2.00.

https://www.betexplorer.com/soccer/a...cain/n1W1VLz0/

Should a bet on APR recalculated from 8.50 to 2.10 if 2 years ago both teams played and closing odds were 2.20 for hosts hence opening odds at 8.50 were wrong?

Imo, as long as whole industry have wrong odds then bookie should pay. If whole industry had odds 1.40 and Leonbets had odds 3.40 then game should be recalculated.This is not the case though.

[Optional]

I appreciate all your opinions guys, but why B365 and betfair & 1xbet.. They paid for all their customers without any problems even though they made the same mistake, i even leonbets paid to my friend with total of 800 € and after they recalculate the odd and put -500€ in his balance . In my case they canceled my withdrawals is that fair!!!

If Leonbets have treated other people differently to you then they probably think you are a serial shot taker.

Looking at the odds history I am not sure as many people spotted this as is being suggested. Some books left it up a long time and the Bet365 game day odds history shows they had it over 2.00 for most of the day leading up the match.

Whilst it does appear to be an obviously bad line in hindsight, accepting the bet 2 days before the game and not picking up the error until after the result is known kind of suggests Leonbets were fast asleep at the wheel here.

Personally I am thinking they really should just pay the OP at full struck odds in this case, and if they don't like the way he took the bet, show him the door after paying out his balance.

But if not that, considering they picked it up so late, at least revalue the bet at more sensible odds in relation to the time it was accepted. 1.80 minimum, up to 2.50 if they want to err on the side of fairness to the player.

[lonnie55]

So, if teams are met for a first time then wrong odds are considered value but if 2 teams met before then odds should be priced based on what were the odds in first game? What if odds were wrong in first game?

Berkane had lost 2-0 in first game and clueless trader priced it 3.40. Clever punter took advantage of it. That's how i see it.

Another example. Two months ago, clueless trader priced APR at 8.00 in same tournament. Market pushed it down to 2.00.

https://www.betexplorer.com/soccer/a...cain/n1W1VLz0/

Should a bet on APR recalculated from 8.50 to 2.10 if 2 years ago both teams played and closing odds were 2.20 for hosts hence opening odds at 8.50 were wrong?

Imo, as long as whole industry have wrong odds then bookie should pay. If whole industry had odds 1.40 and Leonbets had odds 3.40 then game should be recalculated.This is not the case though.

Come on buddy, you know that it was a bad line. Be glad that your bookies didn't void that bet. Imagine you were the bookie, what would you do? You knew exactly what was going on there.

Berkane had lost 2-0 in first game and clueless trader priced it 3.40. Clever punter took advantage of it. That's how i see it.

Dude, the first match was not even kicked off when WH came in with this error. A 2-0 in a home match by the way means NOTHING in Africa. There are plenty of examples where a team lost away like 0-2 or 0-3 and won at home 6-0 or higher. Nothing special in these CAF competitions.

[Motorhead11]

Lonnie, you don't get my point.

I was aware that i was betting on a bad line.

Is it my responsibility as a punter when whole market can't set odds properly for a game?

You ask me what i would do if i was a book. I would act in the same way as all books that paid me fine. Since i accepted the bets and since game was already flagged i would pulled it after first 1-2 big bets and cover my ass. This is what whole industry did btw.

Exception to the above is russian books that were aware that something was going on, yet they kept odds for the game all days and were adjusting them slowly. They were aware and yet they kept odds for the game, is it my fault that i staked it?

In Italy you should know that by law a bookie can't change odds once bet is accepted, no matter value odds, wrong odds etc.

[moojoo]

It is your responsability if you scalp,because you know its bad odds and you can get screwed.
I never bet bad lines,i dont wanba gamble 2 times. First to win bet ,and second to hope they dont void match.

[lonnie55]

Lonnie, you don't get my point.

I was aware that i was betting on a bad line.

Is it my responsibility as a punter when whole market can't set odds properly for a game?

You ask me what i would do if i was a book. I would act in the same way as all books that paid me fine. Since i accepted the bets and since game was already flagged i would pulled it after first 1-2 big bets and cover my ass. This is what whole industry did btw.

Exception to the above is russian books that were aware that something was going on, yet they kept odds for the game all days and were adjusting them slowly. They were aware and yet they kept odds for the game, is it my fault that i staked it?

No, of course not. The point is that is was an obvious error based on an input error which was immediately recognized by the market. Thanks to the stupidity (or generosity?) of the books it has not been voided, although it was obvious to everyone what happened.

Although I don't say it's legitimate for bookies to void any error.

Let me give you an example where I think it would have been wrong to void: https://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/sw...mois-xQHEg52b/

Two level 6 teams were playing in the first round of the national cup against each other. They clashed for the very first time. Both from different regions. No reference available beside standings of their respective leagues. Who would know fair odds? Bookies gave weird-looking odds but okay, who knows how strong the away team is. There have not been any big moves before bookies closed the market (beside 1xbet).

So most of the bookies honored the bet and I say this was the correct way to handle this case because it was a wrong estimation, an absurd estimation though, but it was not evident to every market participant that it was an obvious error.

In Italy you should know that by law a bookie can't change odds once bet is accepted, no matter value odds, wrong odds etc.

I know and it's a stupid law. Imagine this law would apply to normal business. What if a car dealer puts a Ferrari for sale on an online platform and accidentally mistyped the price: 1,000 EUR instead of 100,000 EUR. Someone makes a bid. Should the dealer be liable for his mistake?

Same could happen (and already happened a thousand times) in online betting. Imagine a bookie mistyped in an UEFA CL match. He gives 105.00 instead of 1.05 on a home win of PSG against Red Star Belgrad. Winning limit per bet is let's say 20k. If this market is open for betting for more than 5 minutes this single typing error could ruin the whole company within a blink of an eye.

Mistakes are human. Let's differentiate between obvious, explainable errors and wrong estimations. It's important to differentiate these cases in my opinion.

[enaduo]

What if the opposite and the odd was 1.40 and for a reason or another was raised up to 3.4 , what you think ? are you think that the bookie will recalculate the odd !! i dont think so,

[enaduo]

If Leonbets have treated other people differently to you then they probably think you are a serial shot taker.

it was my first bet & last one !

[lonnie55]

What if the opposite and the odd was 1.40 and for a reason or another was raised up to 3.4 , what you think ? are you think that the bookie will recalculate the odd !! i dont think so,

Doesn't matter if the price goes up or down after you made your bet. This is not the decisive criterion. The decisive criterion is the price at which you made your bet and the question if it was based on an obvious error or not. In this case you placed your bet at a price which was an obvious error.

[Optional]

it was my first bet & last one !

Ah, well there is your answer.

You joined them just to make that bet.

I am surprised they paid you anything knowing that part now. But it explains why they gave you the lowest possible semi-justifiable odds. Books hate it when you join just to bet an obvious bad line.

[Motorhead11]

No, of course not. The point is that is was an obvious error based on an input error which was immediately recognized by the market. Thanks to the stupidity (or generosity?) of the books it has not been voided, although it was obvious to everyone what happened.

Although I don't say it's legitimate for bookies to void any error.

Let me give you an example where I think it would have been wrong to void: https://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/sw...mois-xQHEg52b/

Two level 6 teams were playing in the first round of the national cup against each other. They clashed for the very first time. Both from different regions. No reference available beside standings of their respective leagues. Who would know fair odds? Bookies gave weird-looking odds but okay, who knows how strong the away team is. There have not been any big moves before bookies closed the market (beside 1xbet).

So most of the bookies honored the bet and I say this was the correct way to handle this case because it was a wrong estimation, an absurd estimation though, but it was not evident to every market participant that it was an obvious error.



I know and it's a stupid law. Imagine this law would apply to normal business. What if a car dealer puts a Ferrari for sale on an online platform and accidentally mistyped the price: 1,000 EUR instead of 100,000 EUR. Someone makes a bid. Should the dealer be liable for his mistake?

Same could happen (and already happened a thousand times) in online betting. Imagine a bookie mistyped in an UEFA CL match. He gives 105.00 instead of 1.05 on a home win of PSG against Red Star Belgrad. Winning limit per bet is let's say 20k. If this market is open for betting for more than 5 minutes this single typing error could ruin the whole company within a blink of an eye.

Mistakes are human. Let's differentiate between obvious, explainable errors and wrong estimations. It's important to differentiate these cases in my opinion.

@Lonnie,
you say that bookies should settle the swiss cup game cause it was a wrong estimation from them.

However, how would you react if you took hosts win as a value bettor and after game ended your bets was voided because bookies found out that a h2h existed and odds should have been 2.00 and not 8.00 based on previous h2h odds? Should a bettor looking for previous h2h to see relevant odds before place a bet?

Regarding italy, doubt they have 20k limits per bet even in CL games. Many bets goes for manual approval for much smaller amounts.

I agree that mistakes are human. I once set wrong odds at betfair by mistake. Wasn't able to correct it, accepted losses and proceed. Bookies should do the same.

Last, the dealer of Ferrari has nothing to do with betting. More relevant with betting is FOREX. If you mistype 1 lot instead of 0.1 lot you may lost a house lol. Either we all have the right to mistyped odds/bets etc or noone.

[Optional]

how would you react if you took hosts win as a value bettor and after game ended your bets was voided because bookies found out that a h2h existed and odds should have been 2.00 and not 8.00 based on previous h2h odds?

Lonnie has been through this many times himself.

You can argue how he decided it was a bad line is not relevant all you want, but if you take a shot at an 8.00 line when it obviously should be 2.00, then are you seriously going to whine about it on the occasions it gets cancelled?

If you want to be totally unreasonable about it, that's your choice, but don't expect people more interested in money than drama to go along with you.


The book did treat the Enaduo harshly here.

But as he joined just to take advantage of an obvious bad line, he should be happy to have got paid what he did. Many many books would have cancelled in this situation, and some would have also put him through a hundred KYC hoops on top of that before giving his deposit back.

Knowing the story now, I kind of think it shows Leonbets in a good light.


Were you successful getting paid on this at other books Enaduo?

[Motorhead11]

@Optional,

I am aware that books could have voided that bet and would't cry at all, it was 50-50 from the beginning.

I am pretty sure i would also get voided tbh if i managed to register on books only to bet that game. I used pre-existent accounts and believe this helped me a lot to get paid. I also split stakes on many books cause it is easier for a book to pay 1k profit than 10k. Clever bookies were helped also. As said, they were aware that something was going on. They take some stake from me and pulled the game. Situation could have been a lot worse for them, especially for italian books, if people with clean accounts registered with them just to bet a few thousands on those lines.

[Optional]

@Optional,

I am aware that books could have voided that bet and would't cry at all, it was 50-50 from the beginning.

I am pretty sure i would also get voided tbh if i managed to register on books only to bet that game. I used pre-existent accounts and believe this helped me a lot to get paid. I also split stakes on many books cause it is easier for a book to pay 1k profit than 10k. Clever bookies were helped also. As said, they were aware that something was going on. They take some stake from me and pulled the game. Situation could have been a lot worse for them, especially for italian books, if people with clean accounts registered with them just to bet a few thousands on those lines.

100% agree.

I think the OP was saying his friend was paid at better odds. Probably someone with an existing account at a guess.

And agree it sounds like it could have been a lot worse. I suspect that not a huge number of people noticed and bet it until word got around on match day.

[enaduo]

Were you successful getting paid on this at other books Enaduo?

Betfair, Bet365, 1xbet

[lonnie55]

@Lonnie,
you say that bookies should settle the swiss cup game cause it was a wrong estimation from them.

However, how would you react if you took hosts win as a value bettor and after game ended your bets was voided because bookies found out that a h2h existed and odds should have been 2.00 and not 8.00 based on previous h2h odds?

You just bring in new parameters that were not relevant in my example. The point is that it was the first ever clash. There was no h2h history.

Should a bettor looking for previous h2h to see relevant odds before place a bet?

It doesn't matter what he should do or shouldn't or what he does or doesn't. Once again, the only thing what matters is the question if the price at which he made his bet was based on an obvious and explainable error or not.

[Optional]

Betfair, Bet365, 1xbet

It really must have been totally the books fault for 1xbet to pay out when there is a question about anything!

There is really no use trying to argue with Leonbets for the original odds. It's certain they won't do that. We could try arguing for an increase in the estimated odds, but I know the chances of getting them to agree to that are not great either.

I think I'd get the money they have given you withdrawn as first priority, and not risk that by arguing first.

[sadekmeister]

Regarding whole discussion I have another case from Greek yesterday/today.
I placed a bet for Karlovskiy against Mertens in Rennes Challenger @2.45. It was 23:00 CET and at this point I saw only 1xbet and Betfair also offering this bet with odds ~2.20.
During next hour a couple of bookies opened this game to bet with odds range 2.10-2.25 and around midnight CET odds for Karlovskiy started to fall 2.20->1.90->1.80->1.70. Around 1:00 CET there's a big fall to 1.40.
How does reputable bookmaker The Greek react?

Dear Valued Customer,
Please be advised, your wager made on ATP Challenge Evgeny Karlouskiy was deleted due to a line error. The line was incorrectly posted as +145, it should have -250. The correct line is now available

For me it was not palp, but market moving against them.

[infotimbo]

For me it was not palp, but market moving against them.

I had the same with dsi/cris a couple of years ago, no chance to get it reinstated back then, even with sbr involved and clear "proof" on oddsportal (that several bookies had a more or less similar price, even pinnacle)

[lonnie55]

In Italy you should know that by law a bookie can't change odds once bet is accepted, no matter value odds, wrong odds etc.

Not anymore: https://www.today.it/economia/scomme...sa-cambia.html

More relevant with betting is FOREX. If you mistype 1 lot instead of 0.1 lot you may lost a house lol. Either we all have the right to mistyped odds/bets etc or noone.

There are deadlines for mistrades. These vary from 30 minutes to 2 hours AFAIK.

So no, you can't lose a house that easy for just a fat-finger error.

[cashin81]

would it make a difference if he cashed out at say min 87 or whatever?

[slayer8888]

I had a similar problem OP as seen in this thread here https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...ut-reason.html

Although in my case Leonbets recalculated multiple bets of mine. The odds where not wrong whatsoever, I just bet in a small market where odds swing a lot either way from opening lines. All other books paid on the exact same bet. It was just a money grab from Leonbets as I had a very hot streak and amassed a decent sized balance.

I never recovered any of the 5K Euro stolen. I was able to get my remaining balance withdrawn, with help from SBR after Leonbets stalled me with KYC. Leonbets has certainly gone rogue and in my opinion are now a scam book which you have to be very careful with.

[alex ranck]

I sent them at the beginning of an ID card and they were accepted and I withdrew a regular dollar amount, but I won a dollar and wanted to withdraw it and the way they were installed and my withdrawal was rejected