[Jimmy Proffett]

[ChileCheese]

smitch you don't have to believe in anything

however someone can believe in god and dinosaurs

A belief in god is not a natural or infinite occurrence.
A babies need to be held, that is natural.
Fear of putting your hand in fire, that is infinite.


However, the belief people have in the idea of an omnipotent force is created out of story telling and fear.
Yes, the notion of god or 'gods' stems from primitive humans need to explain the circumstances of the world, ie. weather, sun, death..., and in that case, could be argued as natural.
But this does not mean it does not have to be constantly fed into society conscious in order for it to exist.

[falconticket]

Christian right-wing wannabe oil barons developed a time machine back in the 1950s and went back 4,000 years with some DNA material whipped up in their secret labs that are in the basement of every Baptist Church, created the dinosaurs then killed them all and divvied up the land and mineral rights. Only it didn't come off without a hitch because some cavemen Muslims took them by surprise and forced them to sign over all of the areas of what is now Saudi Arabia, Libya, etc. The whole deal was brokered by some cavemen of the Hebrew persuasion who were promised to eventually gain control of present-day Isreal in exchange for having any oil reserves. At least that's one theory.

They also agreed to install one of there people president of the us in the coming millennium

[Boscoe]

They are there to test their faith.

Here's what gets me about religion.

If Jesus or Moses would have made some predictions like the world being roundor dinosaur bones they would have had a lot more followers. How is it that Jesus wasn't aware of this?

maybe because the greeks had already proven that the earth was round centuries prior.

[Robber]

A belief in god is not a natural or infinite occurrence.
A babies need to be held, that is natural.
Fear of putting your hand in fire, that is infinite.


However, the belief people have in the idea of an omnipotent force is created out of story telling and fear.
Yes, the notion of god or 'gods' stems from primitive humans need to explain the circumstances of the world, ie. weather, sun, death..., and in that case, could be argued as natural.
But this does not mean it does not have to be constantly fed into society conscious in order for it to exist.

doesnt sound like you read what i wrote

[kiln]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6XavEirpI4M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ChileCheese]

doesnt sound like you read what i wrote

I did read it.
My point just elaborated well beyond the scope necessary.
The point being, No, you can not believe in both.
Real believers in God, those who strive for nothing more than to fill their faith do not believe in Dinosaurs. End of Story.
Its equivalent to saying you are pro choice but support anti abortion legislation.

[kiln]

I did read it.
My point just elaborated well beyond the scope necessary.
The point being, No, you can not believe in both.
Real believers in God, those who strive for nothing more than to fill their faith do not believe in Dinosaurs. End of Story.
Its equivalent to saying you are pro choice but support anti abortion legislation.

One can, however, be pro-choice and support states' rights. You're being reductionist and that's not helping the dialog. People believe all sorts of things that conflict with other beliefs they hold simultaneously. That's part of the human condition; it's part of what makes it fun to be a human being. The very fact that belief in God persists should be enough evidence to convince you that rationality doesn't trump ideology. The same person often holds diametrically opposed view points at one and the same time. There are lots and lots of shades of gray. By reducing the conversation to a simple binary you alienate the possibility of ever changing anyone's mind.

[ChileCheese]

One can, however, be pro-choice and support states' rights. You're being reductionist and that's not helping the dialog. People believe all sorts of things that conflict with other beliefs they hold simultaneously. That's part of the human condition; it's part of what makes it fun to be a human being. The very fact that belief in God persists should be enough evidence to convince you that rationality doesn't trump ideology. The same person often holds diametrically opposed view points at one and the same time. There are lots and lots of shades of gray. By reducing the conversation to a simple binary you alienate the possibility of ever changing anyone's mind.

Very well said. You might be the most intelligent person on this forum
That being said, while you are correct, part of the human condition is to have conflicting beliefs. However to say rationality does not trump ideology... while correct, is not 'right'. But that is my take. With most topics, like politics or sociology, I dont have issue with people believing opposing ideas. But we are talking about a very unqiue subject. Our reality. I mean, humans either evolved from a different species over millions of years and mutations, or we didnt. So to say you believe in god, is a admittance on your part that we were put on earth by a higher power. To say you believe in dinosarus is to admit you understand evolution. I dont see how there is a gray area there.
Now I have a feeling what your, or others response may be to my last point. But I will wait till I hear it before I offer my rebuttal.

[yisman]

Of course you can believe in both. Many have reconciled the two.

There's so much intolerance going around these days. Some religious people don't want anyone to believe in science, and some atheists/agnostics don't want anyone to be religious.

More tolerance would go a long way. I guess that's not part of the human condition, though...

[kiln]

I mean, humans either evolved from a different species over millions of years and mutations, or we didnt. So to say you believe in god, is a admittance on your part that we were put on earth by a higher power. To say you believe in dinosarus is to admit you understand evolution. I dont see how there is a gray area there.

Let's ask T.G. Dobzhansky: he was a pioneering evolutionary biologist and an Eastern Orthodox. Or Carlos Chagas Filho, A Brazilian neuro-scientist who believed in evolution and creationism. Or ask Marconi, the dude who invented radio, and was noted for saying "I believe not just as a Catholic, bus as a scientist" (or something similar, anyway!).

My point is merely that it's not only possible but very likely that a person holds conflicting ideas in her or his head. My comment about rationality meant to imply that the continued faith in superstition is proof that rationality and irrationality coexist side by side, again, often in the same head. Life is hard and it often appears irrational. It's not too surprising, I don't think, that lots and lots and lots of people continue to cleave to belief in a higher power that in the end is capable of resolving, or at least explaining, the painful mysteries that we each confront. Do I think it;s goofy? hell yeah! But I understand why and how people can believe in science and religion simultaneously. I mean, if someone can believe that they are literally drinking the blood of a man who died two thousand years ago then it doesn't surprise me at all to find out they believe in all sorts of other weirdness as well.

[dngf]

A very interesting conversation, informative and thoughtful. Kiln you gave me some things to think about.

[Hootie Johnson]

Here we go... http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug...me-dinosaurs27

Any questions???

[Robber]

still dont think you understood what i wrote

[FourLengthsClear]

Here we go... http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug...me-dinosaurs27

Any questions???

LOL. No questions.
Can't argue with overwhelming evidence that they have provided.

[Saintsfan1977]

but I also believe that we have been given free will to make our own decisions, and choose our own path.

If god is truly omnipotent and omniscient then there is no free will. It's impossible for both to co-exist. If he knows the past, present, and future then he already knows everything we will ever do before we are ever born. If that is true then he really is a sick sadistic mofo and I rather not believe in a supreme being that decides to make serial killers, child molesters and other criminals that should never exist.

If it knows everything, then he created robots and this whole world thing is just for his amusement.

[losturmarbles]

I'm not super religious, but here's an interesting take on this. God says he creates the plants, animals etc on whatever day that was, then creates humans on another day. You have no idea what god's definition of a day is, nobody does. I think it's ignorant to just assume that Gods definition of time is the same as ours.

Or he could've just overslept that last day by 4.5 billion years and didn't tell anyone. Now you entered into a dilemma here: Do you take the Bible as the literal and infallible word of God, or do you understand not everything is or even can be taken literal. If you're saying that the creation story wasn't literally in 7 days, then why take any part of it literal? Why isn't the creation story as a whole just a figurative explanation of the origin of man.

But to take this a step further, a day is a day. It's absurd to think that a day could be a million years or some other unit of time. As Bill O'Reilly would say: Sun comes up, Sun goes down, no miscommunication. God knew what a day was. Why would he call it a "day" if it wasn't an actual day. Genenis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

[secretstash]

all these quacks that dont realize that genesis is just an explanation of what may have happened are nuts.. no one knows what happened. they werent here to see it silly.. dinosaurs came before man because god put them here.. he wasnt sastisfied with just animals so he made humans.. pretty plain and simple... adam and eve is a STORY told to explain creation in a simple manner... and the 7 day story in genesis is just to present a resting day sat/sun for the church.

sheesh

-stash