[Scorpion]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/12/peopleinscience.religion
Einstein: Religion is nothing, but "childish superstitions"

[Scorpion]

Childish superstition: Einstein's letter makes view of religion relatively clear

Scientist's reply to sell for up to £8,000, and stoke debate over his beliefs




<LI class=byline sizset="64" sizcache="0">James Randerson, science correspondent <LI class=publication sizset="65" sizcache="0">The Guardian, <TIME datetime="2008-05-13" pubdate>Tuesday 13 May 2008</TIME> <LI class=history>Article history <LI class=history><LI class=history>Albert Einstein, pictured in 1953. Photograph: Ruth Orkin/Hulton Archive/Getty Images

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." So said Albert Einstein, and his famous aphorism has been the source of endless debate between believers and non-believers wanting to claim the greatest scientist of the 20th century as their own.
A little known letter written by him, however, may help to settle the argument - or at least provoke further controversy about his views.
Due to be auctioned this week in London after being in a private collection for more than 50 years, the document leaves no doubt that the theoretical physicist was no supporter of religious beliefs, which he regarded as "childish superstitions".
Einstein penned the letter on January 3 1954 to the philosopher Eric Gutkind who had sent him a copy of his book Choose Life: The Biblical Call to Revolt. The letter went on public sale a year later and has remained in private hands ever since.
In the letter, he states: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
Einstein, who was Jewish and who declined an offer to be the state of Israel's second president, also rejected the idea that the Jews are God's favoured people.
"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."
The letter will go on sale at Bloomsbury Auctions in Mayfair on Thursday and is expected to fetch up to £8,000. The handwritten piece, in German, is not listed in the source material of the most authoritative academic text on the subject, Max Jammer's book Einstein and Religion.
One of the country's leading experts on the scientist, John Brooke of Oxford University, admitted he had not heard of it.
Einstein is best known for his theories of relativity and for the famous E=mc2 equation that describes the equivalence of mass and energy, but his thoughts on religion have long attracted conjecture.
His parents were not religious but he attended a Catholic primary school and at the same time received private tuition in Judaism. This prompted what he later called, his "religious paradise of youth", during which he observed religious rules such as not eating pork. This did not last long though and by 12 he was questioning the truth of many biblical stories.
"The consequence was a positively fanatic [orgy of] freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression," he later wrote.
In his later years he referred to a "cosmic religious feeling" that permeated and sustained his scientific work. In 1954, a year before his death, he spoke of wishing to "experience the universe as a single cosmic whole". He was also fond of using religious flourishes, in 1926 declaring that "He [God] does not throw dice" when referring to randomness thrown up by quantum theory.
His position on God has been widely misrepresented by people on both sides of the atheism/religion divide but he always resisted easy stereotyping on the subject.
"Like other great scientists he does not fit the boxes in which popular polemicists like to pigeonhole him," said Brooke. "It is clear for example that he had respect for the religious values enshrined within Judaic and Christian traditions ... but what he understood by religion was something far more subtle than what is usually meant by the word in popular discussion."
Despite his categorical rejection of conventional religion, Brooke said that Einstein became angry when his views were appropriated by evangelists for atheism. He was offended by their lack of humility and once wrote. "The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility."

[Sawyer]

Hawking doesn't say there isn't a god. He is a pantheist, like Einstein.

Pantheism: God is Nature/Universe.

Wikipedia: Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God (or divinity) are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god.

[SprayBoy]

Hawking doesn't say there isn't a god. He is a pantheist, like Einstein.

Pantheism: God is Nature/Universe.

Wikipedia: Pantheism is the view that the Universe (Nature) and God (or divinity) are identical.[1] Pantheists thus do not believe in a personal, anthropomorphic or creator god.

Nop sorry, this is wrong. Pantheism also consists of the belief that god exists outside of the universe. What Hawking meant...and what Einstein meant when they used the word god, was not in a religious sense at all. Their beliefs are comparable to those of Spinoza (his idea is known as Spinoza's God) which became a front for Atheism without having to declare it. Neither Hawking nor Einstein believed in a god, and it's sad to see people misquote such brilliant minds.

[Sawyer]

No. According to Pantheism, there isn't a god outside of universe. God, itself is the universe. So a pantheist don't believe in any religion. So what Hawking and Einstein meant when they used the word god, is not in a religious sense at all.

[Sawyer]

Guys, it's a pointless discussion. God exists or not, it's not important. It doesn't matter. What matters is..how you feel happy? Do you feel the need to worship a god? You feel relaxed/better after praying? Then, Yes God exists for you. You don't feel the need to pray to a god? You don't feel comfortable when you're in a church or mosque? Ok, then god doesn't exist for you. What makes you happy/comfortable is the truth. (Pragmatism)

Everybody should have their own truth(s). Because the existence (or inexistence) of god is not something objective. It's subjective. We can prove the existence of law of gravity by making an experiment. But we can't prove the existence of god. We can't prove inexistence of god either. You can believe it or not. It's up to you.

[bettilimbroke999]

You dont need to prove something doesnt exist the burden is on the individual claiming something exists to provide evidence that it actually exists

Could there be a bunch of dinosaurs hiding in Yellowstone Park, I guess it could be somehow possible, but its not reasonable to assume that there are a bunch of dinosaurs hiding in Yellowstone Park if there is no evidence provided

[DrStale]

seriously, everybody who believes in god, conceive a child and when they are born, leave them on a deserted island. they will never know what god is. so, according to you, they will go to hell, since they never went to church or prayed. idiots

1.Out of curiosity, why is a belief in God synonymous with a belief in heaven and hell?
2. Left to their own devices human beings would eventually recreate some form of religion (thats kinda how it started in the first place)

[rki999]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7TfM...eature=related

FOLLOW THE ZONE.THE BIG SECRET IS REVEALED? OR IS IT?

[chargers4222]

1.Out of curiosity, why is a belief in God synonymous with a belief in heaven and hell?
2. Left to their own devices human beings would eventually recreate some form of religion (thats kinda how it started in the first place)

idk man. god is something made up to make people feel better. like santa claus. do you not agree with this

[DrStale]

I do agree, which is why even if you wiped out all religion right now it would eventually come back. Religion is mankind's response to the questions of why we are born and why we die, so it wont go away. I find it harmful because instead of seeking out answers to both personal and global problems people rely on "God" to fix things, thus making the problems worse.

[chargers4222]

completely agreed. respect, drstale

[pico]

yeah. pretty old news

[Dutch]

If early man had known more about the universe and the fact that it doesn't revolve around the earth, they might have come up with a totally different belief system other than an "all knowing and wise father".

They prob'ly would have scratched their heads and said "Fuk, we have no idea what the hell is going on! Might as well enjoy the ride!"

[smitch124]

I think people tend to think of religion (man's feeble and manipulative attempt at explaining God) and God as the same thing. There probably is little or no resemblance between the two.