1. #526
    StackinGreen
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    In case anyone wants to see much of the "science"

    ---

    Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...
    N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.Cowling, B. et al. (2010)

    “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456.
    www.cambridge.org/... review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

    None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267.
    onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...“There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”Smith, J.D. et al. (2016)

    “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016
    www.cmaj.ca/...
    “We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”Offeddu, V. et al. (2017)

    “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942,
    academic.oup.com/...
    “Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019)

    “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833.
    jamanetwork.com/...

    “Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”——-Long, Y. et al. (2020)

    “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9.
    onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...

    “A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”
    Last edited by StackinGreen; 07-31-20 at 10:31 AM.

  2. #527
    Okieirish
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    The fact is the little cloth masks everybody think are cute, are maybe 10% effective. The virus will go straight through it. I saw the stats on it. If you are going to wear a mask at least wear a N95. I actually had a few in the shop cabinet!! Our town is mask mandatory so I will wear it sometimes. Remember at the start of the scamdemic, they were wanting people to donate their N95s etc. You could not find them anywhere. Maybe other countries have had better luck with masks because they are not wearing crappy cloth ones.

  3. #528
    HockeyRocks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okieirish View Post
    The fact is the little cloth masks everybody think are cute, are maybe 10% effective. The virus will go straight through it. I saw the stats on it. If you are going to wear a mask at least wear a N95. I actually had a few in the shop cabinet!! Our town is mask mandatory so I will wear it sometimes. Remember at the start of the scamdemic, they were wanting people to donate their N95s etc. You could not find them anywhere. Maybe other countries have had better luck with masks because they are not wearing crappy cloth ones.
    scamdemic?

  4. #529
    hehfest
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackinGreen View Post
    I am a doctor. No one is worthless. You always talk a big game, but mostly it is just to irritate others or inflate your own ego. I don't know why you think that is productive. Not wearing a mask isn't a gamble, because it doesn't reduce risk, and wearing a mask dehumanizes people and causes more problems with life and quality of life.

    The science is clear in this fashion: Even N95s don't stop respiratory viruses. Do you want the links to the studies? I will post them if you are curious. Are those of you struck with fear going to listen to high priest Fauci now and also wear goggles? What about when he asks you to wear a space suit? I'm being serious.
    Science is God. Government is God. That is what has happened here. This........this is all with something that is NOT even legal to do because none of it has passed through a legislature body according to our Constitution (mandatory masks). Governors can NOT make executive orders or laws. How retarded are you people (not you stack)? Even the President can NOT do that.

    No. God is God. Not the government and not science although both of the latter think they are. I mentioned this about the legislature back in March when all this started. What has changed? Nothing. They are still doing something that is NOT a LAW. Baffles me beyond belief how stupid people truly have become.

  5. #530
    Mac4Lyfe
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    ^ You need to freshen up on your state law because most governors have vast powers to enact laws in a state of emergency.

    I don’t understand why people have made this a political issue? Why don’t you complain about wearing seat belts. Some people have been killed because of seatbelts but I don’t hear you whining about your freedom?

  6. #531
    StackinGreen
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    6 months isn't an emergency. 2 weeks is. Most governors have 30 day mandates, then a legislative body would take over. They have disregarded those as well. The coronavirus is not an emergency by any sane or logical thinker. It does not affect children or healthy people. It is equivalent to a flu season, yet we shut down the economy and many other hypocritical measures were taken, against our own laws, for expressly political purposes - never did that for flu seasons. Flu affects children and adults both, never even talked about not going to school. Again, if you "want to save a life" - don't drive. Otherwise you are a hypocrite too.

    The response to the virus was and has always been, political. Are you wearing goggles now too, Mac? High Priest Fauci told you to. Are you going to wear a space suit? Soon you'll find out that even you have a line, which will then prove our point - on what grounds would you ever object to the government if you are just supposed to listen to them regardless? That's acting like they are God, which is foolishness. As if they care about you. Give me a break.

  7. #532
    hehfest
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    Quote Originally Posted by StackinGreen View Post
    6 months isn't an emergency. 2 weeks is. Most governors have 30 day mandates, then a legislative body would take over. They have disregarded those as well. The coronavirus is not an emergency by any sane or logical thinker. It does not affect children or healthy people. It is equivalent to a flu season, yet we shut down the economy and many other hypocritical measures were taken, against our own laws, for expressly political purposes - never did that for flu seasons. Flu affects children and adults both, never even talked about not going to school. Again, if you "want to save a life" - don't drive. Otherwise you are a hypocrite too.

    The response to the virus was and has always been, political. Are you wearing goggles now too, Mac? High Priest Fauci told you to. Are you going to wear a space suit? Soon you'll find out that even you have a line, which will then prove our point - on what grounds would you ever object to the government if you are just supposed to listen to them regardless? That's acting like they are God, which is foolishness. As if they care about you. Give me a break.

    Thanks for pointing out the mandates Stack. I truly admit I wasn't aware Governors had that power. As you said, they have abused this power beyond any rationale without a doubt. I know they can issue these orders but always thought whether they were constitutional to where even law enforcement must obey them. Let's face it. Why is one person telling the whole state of persons what they must do? There is no place in our country for one person to have such power over others. If an asteroid was coming, and we all knew it, would we listen to his/her executive orders? Or, would some of us try to enjoy our families and friends the most we can and look them in the eyes and share thoughts with them in case we don't make it?

    I know the analogy (asteroid) is not relevant completely here.

  8. #533
    PAULYPOKER
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1slickguy View Post
    Well that was a given from the get go.

    N95 or better is the only effective masks on protecting the spread and contraction of COVID19 or any virus for that matter.

    N95 or better is not available to the masses so the masses are being lied to
    in order to curb widespread panic and unrest.

    Regular masks are better than nothing though.

  9. #534
    fried cheese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac4Lyfe View Post
    ^ You need to freshen up on your state law because most governors have vast powers to enact laws in a state of emergency.

    I don’t understand why people have made this a political issue? Why don’t you complain about wearing seat belts. Some people have been killed because of seatbelts but I don’t hear you whining about your freedom?
    seatbelt laws are clearly wrong in my opinion. i would still wear a seatbelt, but i dont think you should be forced to wear it since you are only harming yourself. i feel the same about drugs, gambling, prostitution and other such nanny state laws.

  10. #535
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    A top autoimmune disease expert said that the flu could be "nonexistent this fall" as the U.S. moves into the colder months while still grappling with the coronavirus pandemic.


    "We may not have the flu at all, but we should all get vaccinated," Dr. Bob Lahita, chairman of the Department of Medicine at St. Joseph's Healthcare System, told CBSN anchor Anne-Marie Green.

    The World Health Organization estimates that each year there are roughly 3-5 million severe influenza cases globally and up to 500,000 deaths annually linked to the disease.




    The United States, the epicenter of the COVID-19 crisis, has seen over 150,000 coronavirus-linked deaths and over 4 million confirmed cases since March. Medical experts have been concerned about what the surging number of cases could mean as students return to school and the annual flu season starts.

    One former U.S. health official, Dr. Rick Bright, testified in a Congressional hearing that the country could face the "darkest winter in modern history" if the pandemic is not controlled.


    Countries such as China, Canada and the United Kingdom have recently reported a significant drop in influenza cases following global social distancing measures to contain the coronavirus, according to a report from Reuters.

    The report also states that South Korea's most recently weekly infectious disease numbers saw "an 83% decrease in cases from the same period a year earlier." In Australia, which is currently in winter, experts are seeing significantly lower rates of hospital admissions for non-COVID-19 infectious diseases for the time of year. However, WHO warned in a recent report that influenza numbers may need to be viewed with "caution" because of the pandemic hindering some countries' reporting ability.

    Dr. Lahita predicted a similar decrease in U.S. influenza cases "because of our mask-wearing and our hand-washing and our social distancing."

    "I think it will be very interesting to watch this," he said.

  11. #536
    PAULYPOKER
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    You can contract COVID19 through your eyes as well for the fact they are sinus openings.

    Your ears as well.

  12. #537
    Eddy Munny
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAULYPOKER View Post
    You can contract COVID19 through your eyes as well for the fact they are sinus openings.

    Your ears as well.
    Now mandatory in 13 states:

    Points Awarded:

    hehfest gave Eddy Munny 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  13. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by fried cheese View Post
    seatbelt laws are clearly wrong in my opinion. i would still wear a seatbelt, but i dont think you should be forced to wear it since you are only harming yourself. i feel the same about drugs, gambling, prostitution and other such nanny state laws.
    You are not only hurting yourself. You get hurt in a car accident, that impacts healthcare, if you don’t have health insurance, WE ALL pay for your bill. Why is it mandatory to have car insurance? Because there’s too many irresponsible people. Laws have to be made because people are stupid and we all end up footing their bills. If you don’t wear a mask then get sick like Herman Cain, you are taking up one more hospital bed and a ventilator because you want to express your freedom. You can never be truly free in the US. You must conform to laws because your freedom should not impact others.

    Unfortunately, drugs, gambling and prostitution harms much more people than just the person. They impact the entire community because you know people are not responsible.

  14. #539
    hawkwind
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    Masks should not be worn they lead to deaths & robberies.

  15. #540
    Okieirish
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    Quote Originally Posted by HockeyRocks View Post
    scamdemic?
    Yes. There is an illness being used 1000% for political purposes mostly.

  16. #541
    The Kraken
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okieirish View Post
    The fact is the little cloth masks everybody think are cute, are maybe 10% effective. The virus will go straight through it. I saw the stats on it. If you are going to wear a mask at least wear a N95. I actually had a few in the shop cabinet!! Our town is mask mandatory so I will wear it sometimes. Remember at the start of the scamdemic, they were wanting people to donate their N95s etc. You could not find them anywhere. Maybe other countries have had better luck with masks because they are not wearing crappy cloth ones.
    100% false. Please quit spreading false information, you dont understand vector transmission, aerosolization vs droplet, virus load, etc.... its all confusing but when randos state incorrect opinions as fact it becomes confusing for other ppl that know as little as you but actually be looking for real information

  17. #542
    The Kraken
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAULYPOKER View Post
    Well that was a given from the get go.

    N95 or better is the only effective masks on protecting the spread and contraction of COVID19 or any virus for that matter.

    N95 or better is not available to the masses so the masses are being lied to
    in order to curb widespread panic and unrest.

    Regular masks are better than nothing though.
    Not true my man. Primary mode of transmission is respiratory droplet and the micron size of the virus doesnt matter when its in droplet form. There is still no hard science that we should treat this as an aerosolized airborne virus. Any cloth mask is pretty effective against droplets. Wear any mask and wash hands and thats pretty fukking effective.

  18. #543
    fried cheese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac4Lyfe View Post
    You are not only hurting yourself. You get hurt in a car accident, that impacts healthcare, if you don’t have health insurance, WE ALL pay for your bill. Why is it mandatory to have car insurance? Because there’s too many irresponsible people. Laws have to be made because people are stupid and we all end up footing their bills. If you don’t wear a mask then get sick like Herman Cain, you are taking up one more hospital bed and a ventilator because you want to express your freedom. You can never be truly free in the US. You must conform to laws because your freedom should not impact others.

    Unfortunately, drugs, gambling and prostitution harms much more people than just the person. They impact the entire community because you know people are not responsible.
    you have mandatory car insurance because of other ppls property that you damage. if ppl dont have health insurance and need care then they can repay it in community service. drug, gambling, and prostitution laws not only create most of the violence in the usa but i would also guess that enforcement/imprisonment costs much more in tax payer money than they save.

    i am fine with some reasonable sacrifices as long as it is for a short term problem like hospital overcrowding. i dont agree with forced business closures in states or counties that are not in danger of hospital overcrowding though.

  19. #544
    StackinGreen
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    All we have had is lie after lie. It's not coming, the president is horrible to lock Chinese travel here down!, the mask doesn't do anything, the mask might help, the mask is REQUIRED. Now goggles. Oh, we only need 2 weeks. Now we need another 2 months. Oh wait, it's been almost 6 months?

    You don't have to be intelligent to know what's going on, you just have to pay attention and not be in the bag for the tribal politics. Fauci won't even talk about protestors gathering as being bad re: virus transmission, but he can talk about grinder and tinder hookups and how that's up to you, or only 20 people can go to church. Or how this sport may not play, or that one might be canceled, or a mask is so important, but I'm not distancing and put my mask down.

    The people who argue against all of this elite BS are a joke. It's all a lie, and we know why. Stop lying to us and yourselves about it.

  20. #545
    PAULYPOKER
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kraken View Post
    Not true my man. Primary mode of transmission is respiratory droplet and the micron size of the virus doesnt matter when its in droplet form. There is still no hard science that we should treat this as an aerosolized airborne virus. Any cloth mask is pretty effective against droplets. Wear any mask and wash hands and thats pretty fukking effective.
    What happens when you catch a droplet in the eye or ear hole from a non mask wearer?

  21. #546
    The Kraken
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAULYPOKER View Post
    What happens when you catch a droplet in the eye or ear hole from a non mask wearer?
    Well, if they’re a non-mask wearer having on an n95 wont provide anymore protection against a droplet in the eye than a regular earloop mask. That would get in to the goggles/face shield topic.

    The regular masks do a great job of keeping droplets contained on the spreader side. Its always been more about masks preventing the spread of the virus as opposed to protecting the individual wearing it against the virus. Could you inhale a drople? Sure but not likely to happen. More likely someone coughs or sneezes at the store and those droplets end up on a can you touch and then you touch your mouth or eye.

    i personally dont see the utility in an n95 as of now but I certainly dont care if people choose to wear them.

  22. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by fried cheese View Post
    you have mandatory car insurance because of other ppls property that you damage. if ppl dont have health insurance and need care then they can repay it in community service. drug, gambling, and prostitution laws not only create most of the violence in the usa but i would also guess that enforcement/imprisonment costs much more in tax payer money than they save.

    i am fine with some reasonable sacrifices as long as it is for a short term problem like hospital overcrowding. i dont agree with forced business closures in states or counties that are not in danger of hospital overcrowding though.
    You also have insurance to protect you and others personally if there’s health issues not just property. Do you really think community service is going to pay a 6 figure hospital bill? How does laws against drugs, gambling and prostitution cause more violence? That’s crazy talk. It’s the people involved in those activities that are doing the violence. You say all these things should be legalized. Would you want your daughter to use drugs, be a degenerate gambler and a prostitute? I already know your answer.

    i believe in protecting the public. I said months ago when Covid just started that we should have closed EVERYTHING and have a nationwide shutdown, quarantine in place for 2 or 3 weeks. Yes, it would have sucked but no business would have gone bankrupt for just 2 weeks and we would be over this shit. We could have killed the virus before it gained wind but we had zero leadership to do what had to be done. Half assing is why we’re in this mess and we don’t have football. Dammit

  23. #548
    StackinGreen
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAULYPOKER View Post
    What happens when you catch a droplet in the eye or ear hole from a non mask wearer?
    Nothing 99.5% of the time, which is the point of this and all the other stupid threads which are essentially freedom and livelihood vs fear and 80+ year old holding people's entire lives hostage (with politicians hack causes or help), so they "might" get a few more months. The boomers and older are a gift that just keeps on giving (not).

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