[JohnGalt2341]

Thanks guys!!

Oh, and one sort of interesting thing I noticed: between all the group winners (I'm including Toptal here) there were a total of 5 losses, and all of them were on green side. Could be mostly coincidental given the small sample or side might be a bigger advantage than I thought

Yeah, that's really interesting. I have exactly 50% losses for Tournament play but I definitely prefer playing Purple. I looked up Toptal's legitimate tourney losses and 11 were Green and 7 were Purple. That's about 61%. And for Ryan it's 12 for Green and 10 Purple, 55%. For Mr. Bruno it's 23-23. And one of the original players named JeroenDMT is 9-9.

Purple has that Home Field advantage feeling to me... I'm going to look up a few others I think... I'm going to see if I can find some old school(2007) players to look at.

[JohnGalt2341]

Here's some other players and their Tournament losses according to color. The percentages listed are for the color Green percent of losses for this player.

BadgerFreak 13 Green 12 Purple 52%

Ricardo BM 19 Green 18 Purple 51%

Andy Green 21 Purple 15 58%

Randy Richards Green 13 Purple 16 45%

kingzomby Green 2 Purple 6 25% Wow!

hamsarnie Green 12 Purple 16 43%

Mitch Green 13 Purple 13 50%

Lord Jovac Green 10 Purple 10 50%

maitreg Green 5 Purple 3 62.5%

cctiger2000 Green 4 Purple 2 67%

Shaun Penton Green 3 Purple 1 75%

cartesio Green 1 Purple 0 100%(How did I never play this guy? Oh, because he only played 10 games)

Quitting this site Green 3 Purple 2 60%

I did far more than I intended to. I mostly just did players that didn't timeout games so it was fairly easy, just do a word count for Green and Purple on their tourney losses. This is interesting though. The sample sizes are pretty small but it sort of looks like most players do slightly better with Purple. I was expecting it to be higher. My feeling is that it will probably be more apparent with stronger players. If I'm playing a one-off game vs a really strong player I would definitely rather be purple but vs a weaker player I don't care as much.

[JohnGalt2341]

The color of losses will be especially interesting in the next round of the tourney because most of the players in the next round are good players. Let's see if this trend of Green losing continues.

[blankoblanco]

Nice research! Interesting. I agree with your point about it mattering more when both are strong players. The games where one player is so much better that they'll win 95+% of the time regardless of side probably dilutes the numbers pretty heavily. Oh and of course in the games where neither player has a strong grasp on the strategy, any starting advantage can vanish in an instant

I guess the next question would be, is there a way to use this information to one's benefit? Like, assuming you're against an opponent at your own skill level, be more inclined to take risks as green and less so as purple? Of course it could be that consciously employing this approach would just make most players play worse than they would if they weren't thinking about it

[JohnGalt2341]

Nice research! Interesting. I agree with your point about it mattering more when both are strong players. The games where one player is so much better that they'll win 95+% of the time regardless of side probably dilutes the numbers pretty heavily. Oh and of course in the games where neither player has a strong grasp on the strategy, any starting advantage can vanish in an instant

I guess the next question would be, is there a way to use this information to one's benefit? Like, assuming you're against an opponent at your own skill level, be more inclined to take risks as green and less so as purple? Of course it could be that consciously employing this approach would just make most players play worse than they would if they weren't thinking about it

As you know I like to compare Hexversi to MMA because I feel that they have a lot of similarities. And it's easy to breakdown a Hexversi game in 5 sections like a 5 round MMA fight. And what's really cool is Hexversi has a built in judge, meaning the move count. Just like any judge, it's not perfect but it's usually a fairly reliable indicator to who's winning the game and by how much, but it's definitely not perfect. What I think I'm going to do in the next round of the tourney is, I'm going to take a look at the Judge's scorecard(players move count) after Round #1(after move #8) in my games and compare the Judges scores to the games where I am Green vs where I am Purple. This should be interesting.

I just looked up my tourney games from the last tourney when I played Toptal. Here's what I found:

After the 1st Round(24 total pieces on the board), the Judges scores(move counts) were as follows:

Holden2341 Green, after R1: 7
Toptal Purple, after R1: 9

Holden2341 Purple, after R1: 8
Toptal Green, after R1: 9

This is interesting to me... and it sort of confirms what I suspected. I think I'm going to look at a few others vs Toptal and see how consistent this is. I won both games above btw. I think I'll look at some games where he beat me and see what it shows. If I breakdown the games of the top players in the next round after R1 I should be able to figure out who in this tourney is really strong with their openings. I think I will likely be in the top 5 but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there are other players who are stronger than me in R1. If I can figure out who is best at the openings... we should be able to learn from them.

[JohnGalt2341]

Here's a couple of games I played vs Toptal that were started on 5/11/2018.

Judges Scorecards after Round #1

Holden2341 Green 12
Toptal Purple 6

Holden2341 Purple 8
Toptal Green 11

I lost the first game but I won the 2nd. Weird. I looked up that first game to see what happened. Toptal played really well from there. But what was weird was, I tapped him out after move #38. There were only 6 spots left on the board. One was a section of 2 and the other was a section of 4. I had to move first into both sections because he had no moves. This meant that he was able to move last in both sections because no matter where I moved I created a move for him.

He won the game because he got to move last in both sections. Before the last move of the game I was ahead 45-44.

Sometimes if you feel that you are barely losing a game you can force situations like this where you can sacrifice some moves just to force your opponent to move first into an Even section, giving you the last move in the section. Well done by Toptal here. He had some really slick moves that won him the game.

I've had other games where I've tapped someone out first and they still beat me. It's pretty rare though.

[JohnGalt2341]

Here's 2 games vs Toptal that were started on 3-02-18

Judges Scorecard after Round #1

Holden2341 Green 8
Toptal Purple 5

Holden2341 Purple 8
Toptal Green 11

I won both of these games. I just noticed that the positioning in the game where I am Purple above is exactly the same as post #76. This might be the latest in any 2 games where I've noticed this. I don't have any memorized openings and I'd be surprised if Toptal does either. And I don't always make the same moves as I often feel that many moves have a similar value. On move #9, Green(Toptal) played it one way in one game and another way in the other. And on this particular move, I actually think only one of them was correct.

It's going to be fun to look at the games in the next round after 8 moves. So far I'm not sure if the data is telling me anything.

[JohnGalt2341]

Looks like the next round of the tourney will start soon. I am really hoping we all end up in separate Sections. Out of the 10 other players besides myself there are 4 that I am hoping are in my Section and 6 that I don't want to face. I have different reasons for everyone but there are a couple of players that I've never played but want to.

Players I am hoping are in my Section:

jook
SnazzyD
2Pl76F
Bernard

Players I don't want to face in Round 2 in no particular order:

blanko
Toptal
Daniel
Tsar(formerly The Burglar)
urantian
Ryan

Hopefully the 2nd Round will start tomorrow. I'm expecting a lot of good games in this round.

[blankoblanco]

These groups are such bullshit, holy crap

[JohnGalt2341]

These groups are such bullshit, holy crap

Looks like you have the toughest Section... again. But this round makes your last round look like somewhat of a cakewalk. There's a reason why I didn't want to play anyone in your Section in this round... it's because I didn't want to have to play them until the Finals! This might be one of the all time toughest Sections in the history of Hexversi tourney's. This Section is going to be so much fun watch. I really hope nobody time's out in this round. Give 'em hell blanko!!

Get your Section winner predictions in before September 1st. These will be worth 2 points each. Current standings are as follows:


Section Prediction Point Standings after Round 1:

1. Daniel 7
1. blanko 7
3. JohnGalt 6
4. Housemoney 5

If anybody goes undefeated in this round I will be seriously impressed!

[Daniel Espinosa]

Players I am hoping are in my Section:

jook
SnazzyD
2Pl76F
Bernard

Lol I got 3 of them. I will probably still going to lose


Section winner:

Section 1: DanielEspinosa (probably everyone has around 25% chance)
Section 2: Toptal (blanko and Toptal are probably again going to tie for 1st)
Section 3: Holden2341

[blankoblanco]

Section 1: Daniel
Section 2: Ryan (I just don't have the guts to pick myself in this group)
Section 3: Holden

[JohnGalt2341]

300 Point Bonus challenge!

Predict the exact placement of each Section correctly. I will use the exact order IYT uses when the Round is over. So, if there is a tie you must pick it correctly in alphabetical order. For instance, if blanko and Toptal tie you must pick blanko in the top spot.

I will make my Section picks tomorrow with a breakdown of each Section.

[Daniel Espinosa]

I struggled with section 2 (blanko dont let me down!), but here I go:

Section 1:
DanielEspinosa
Bernard
joook
2PI76F

Section 2:
blanko
Toptal
Ryan
urantian

Section 3:
Holden
The Burglar (You only Covid19 twice?)
SnazzyD

[JohnGalt2341]

Round 2 Section breakdown. I'll do one section at a time. Here's section 1. Let's meet the players.

Daniel
Tourney Rec 7-3 70%

He's got 31 total Hexversi games under his belt with a combined record of 18-13 58%. Strengths: Very good understanding of UBEs (unbalanced edges). Plays with confidence. Weaknesses: Very little experience. Open to mid-game needs some work. Notable Wins: aragon(1-1)

joook
Tourney Record 12-6 67%

This is one of the players I have never played. I reviewed a couple of games. Strengths: He can often make several very good plays in a row. Lots of Reversi related game experience including 1382 6x6 games winning 60% of them. 6x6 and Hexversi compliment each other very well. Weaknesses: Very inconsistent. He's prone to making some terrible moves. Notable Wins: Mach3(1-1). Mach3 is probably one of the top 10 best players I have ever played or pretty close to it. He beat me 4 games out of 10.

Bernard
Tourney Rec 213-90-1 70%

He's won 6 smaller Hexversi tourney's over the years. Strengths: Lots of experience. Weaknesses: Plays sloppy at times. Notable wins: Toptal(1-13)

Section 1 may be the weakest of the 3 but I really like this Section a lot. Aside from 2P, I think any of the 3 could win this Section.

My predictions are as follows. Next to the players name in parenthesis is their Hexversi Tournament record along with their Win percentage. The second set of numbers is my prediction for this round of the tourney. I think these games are going to be really close. I was going to pick Daniel but I need to gain 2 points so I'm going with experience here and picking Bernard.

Section 1

1. Bernard (213-90-1) 70% 4-2
2. Daniel (7-3) 70% 4-2
3. joook (12-6) 67% 4-2
4. 2PI76F (5-5) 50% 0-6

[JohnGalt2341]

Section 2

blanko
Tourney 8-4 67% Notable Wins: Toptal(1-1)
Ladder 32-2 94% NW: aragon(1-0)
Strengths: Very good understanding of UBE's. Plays with confidence. Endgame is improving.
Weaknesses: Not much experience, especially vs really good players. That's about to change.

Ryan
Tourney 116-22(Legit) 84% 6 Time Tourney Champ
Notable Wins: Toptal(1-7), Mach3(2-0), Eddie(1-1)
Ladder 148-24(L) 86%
Notable Wins: Toptal(2-1), Holden(2-13)

Strengths: Lot's of experience including several games vs Toptal and myself. He understands what's happening in the game better than most.

Weaknesses: Often makes mistakes on the sides. He plays sort of sloppy on occasion but people rarely make him pay for it. E.g. He often goes for Closed 2's even when his opponent can prevent him from getting it. This could be my imagination but it seems like he times-out more in games that he's losing. He's a good player, I am really hoping he doesn't time-out any of these.

Toptal
Tourney 329-18(Legit)-1 95%
Ladder 161-18(L)-2 89%
Notable Wins Holden(2-7)

Strengths: VERY good understanding of the game. Lots of experience. Possibly the best early game player in the tournament. He plays with a lot of confidence. He won't hesitate to make a sacrifice if he can gain a move or two out of the deal. If you play terribly early on you better not get too far behind or he will bury you.

Weaknesses: He makes subtle mistakes on the sides. But you usually only have 1 move to make him pay. If you miss your window he's going to burn you on this.

urantian:
Tourney (?-?)
Ladder (?-?)
Notable Wins: Toptal(1-1)
urantian hides his stats so he's somewhat of a mystery. I'm 2-0 vs him but it's been nearly 3 years. He had a really weak Section in Round 1 so it's sort of hard to tell what he will do vs a better player. He was in the Ladder for a very short time a while back and he played Toptal twice and he was 1-1 against him.

Strengths: Lots of Reversi experience. He understands the theory well.

Weaknesses: Lack of Hexversi experience. Other than that, he's sort of mystery. If he can win more than 3 games in this section I will be very impressed.

My picks below with Win/Loss predictions:
1. Toptal 4-2
2. blanko 3-3
3. Ryan 3-3
4. urantian 2-4

This one's going to be a lot of fun! It wouldn't surprise me entirely if everyone ended up 3-3.

[JohnGalt2341]

Section 3

SnazzyD
Tourney 5-1 83%

This guy has been on the site just over 2 months. He's got a pretty good grasp on some general strategy but I get the feeling he's going to be in over his head here. We'll see... maybe he'll make me eat my words.

You only Covid19(burglar)
Tourney 6-0 100%
NW: FGYTPeti (2-0)

Strengths: TONS of Reversi experience. Over 2000 games winning over 60 Tournaments. Very good understanding of the theory.
Weaknesses: Lack of Hexversi experience. Maybe he too, will make me eat my words.

Holden2341
Tourney 372-12 97%
Strengths: Lots of experience with many different players. Very good side-play and very strong endgame.
Weaknesses: Mediocre openings on occasion, especially when Green. Unorthodox openings from Purple(and sometimes Green) can give me fits if you do it right. *If you can prevent me from playing my game you may be able to beat me.

My Picks:
1. Holden2341 4-0
2. Covid19 Burglar 2-2
3. SnazzyD 0-4

[blankoblanco]

I assume it's okay if I hedge on this part and have a different section 2 winner from my other prediction

Section 1:
Daniel Espinosa
Bernard
joook
2PI76F

Section 2:
Toptal
Ryan
blankoblanco
urantian

Section 3:
Holden2341
Covid19
SnazzyD

[JohnGalt2341]

C19(Burglar) and I have finished Rounds 1(through move #8) of our 5 round battles. Let's see what the Judges scorecard looks like for each color. The Judges scorecard is based on Move Count. The +/- scores are how each player did in the Round.

Burglar Green after Rd1 10 -1
Holden Purple after Rd1 11 +1

Burglar Purple after Rd1 10 +3
Holden Green after Rd1 7 -3

[JohnGalt2341]

C19/Burglar Green after R1 10 +2
Snazzy Purple after R1 8 -2

C19/Burglar Purple after R1 10 +3
Snazzy Green after R1 7 -3

[JohnGalt2341]

Holden Green R1 13 +7
Snazzy Purple R1 6 -7

Holden Purple R1 8 -2
Snazzy Green R1 10 +2

Looks we're both doing better with Green here. SnazzyD is playing really well as Green in our game.

[blankoblanco]

It's probably a good general metric but is it fair to say that move count in a singular position can be deceiving? Like it seems to me there are times where a move immediately puts you ahead in move count but gives the opponent a follow-up move that will flip it in a major way

I definitely wonder how well one could do just making the play that maximizes their own move count advantage every single turn no matter what (or at least until major things on the side come into play)

[JohnGalt2341]

It's probably a good general metric but is it fair to say that move count in a singular position can be deceiving? Like it seems to me there are times where a move immediately puts you ahead in move count but gives the opponent a follow-up move that will flip it in a major way

I definitely wonder how well one could do just making the play that maximizes their own move count advantage every single turn no matter what (or at least until major things on the side come into play)

Yeah, it can definitely be deceiving. I was going through a game the other day where my opponent was playing super aggressive. I was down to only 2 pieces and my opponent had 20 or 30 something. My move count was 2. But my opponent had 6 moves(3 for each of my pieces). But there was really no way I was going to lose this game.

Most of the time I would say Move Count it's a fairly reliable indicator of who's winning but there are times when it can be way off.

During this round of the tourney I'm hoping to figure out when Move Count is a reliable indicator of who's winning and when it is not.

[JohnGalt2341]

Let's take a look at some of Daniel's games after Round 1. I'm going to try it a bit different this time. When the games start, both Green and Purple have 7 Options Available to them. Of course, this will change after the very first move. Let's take a look at how both players did after the first 8 moves. OA=Options Available. D=Difference.

Daniel Green Rd1 OA=10 Gain +3 D+2
Bernard Purple Rd1 OA=8 Gain +1 D-2

Daniel Purple Rd1 OA=5 Loss -2 Even Round
Bernard Green Rd1 OA=5 Loss -2

Daniel Green Rd1 OA=10 G+3 D+1
joook Purple Rd1 OA=9 G+2 D-1

Daniel Purple Rd1 OA=9 G+2 D-3
joook Green Rd1 OA=12 G+5 D+3

In these it looks like Green is doing slightly better than Purple.

I must say... in this Section, joook definitely has the best opening of anyone in the section. If I were to make my picks now I would definitely pick joook instead of Bernard. In order for Daniel and Bernard to compete with joook, I think they are going to have to exploit his weak side-play. If you don't, I think jook is going to take this Section.

[Daniel Espinosa]

Really? I was thinking that 2P was making good moves and that joook was playing kinda weird. In both games he has more chips than I do. I dont know, I dont feel owned so far. Probably I just dont understand what he is doing. I just hope he plays sides terrible (basically my strategy, somehow try to survive until mid-game and then try to come back)

[JohnGalt2341]

Really? I was thinking that 2P was making good moves and that joook was playing kinda weird. In both games he has more chips than I do. I dont know, I dont feel owned so far. Probably I just dont understand what he is doing. I just hope he plays sides terrible (basically my strategy, somehow try to survive until mid-game and then try to come back)

These games are really close. I noticed joook just made a mistake but I thought his openings were pretty good. This really looks like a toss up right now. Even 2P will likely make things interesting.

[blankoblanco]

I might be experiencing a bit of Hexversi burnout so don't fault me too much if I get last place in this group, lol. There have already been quite a few positions early on where I didn't know what to do. I guess that's how it often goes for me, but I get through it vs weaker players. Not a great sign vs strong players

[JohnGalt2341]

Holden Green R1 13 +7
Snazzy Purple R1 6 -7

Holden Purple R1 8 -2
Snazzy Green R1 10 +2

Looks we're both doing better with Green here. SnazzyD is playing really well as Green in our game.

Round 2

Holden Green R2 11 -2
Snazzy Purple R2 8 +2

Holden Purple R2 13 +5
Snazzy Green R2 8 -2

This is a little confusing I suppose.. at the end of Round 2 when I am Green I have 11 OA(Options Available). That's down from 13 which means I lost 2 OA in that Round. And Snazzy gained 2 OA. So, the scorecard says that Snazzy outplayed me in that round and I would agree with that.

In the other game where I am Purple I went from 8 OA to 13 which is a score of +5 and Snazzy went from 10 OA to 8 which is -2. So the scorecard has me winning the Round. I would agree with that but it wasn't nearly as dramatic as the scorecard would indicate. Both of these games are pretty close because the positions are so awkward. He's either getting really lucky with these really unorthodox positions that are hard to deal with or he's really good at creating them. I've been trying to lure him into some rookie mistakes but he's not taking the bait just yet. These games are pretty close and really interesting... at least I think they are.

I looked in on Snazzy's other games vs Masks/Burglar and in one it looks like Burglar is in complete control but in the other it's also a really strange position that you rarely see inside of 2 rounds.

I really hope Snazzy plays in the next tourney because his style is interesting to me. I would love to see how he would do against a lot of other players.

Certain styles of play really intrigue me. Some players seem more likely to pull off a miraculous upset than others. BodaciousBB has beat me twice and also has a win over FGYTPeti as well as some other good players but often times even a beginner will beat her.

I think I'm going to try to get Snazzy to join the Ladder but I doubt they will because as a non-member you can only be in one Ladder at a time.

[JohnGalt2341]

C19(Burglar) and I have finished Rounds 1(through move #8) of our 5 round battles. Let's see what the Judges scorecard looks like for each color. The Judges scorecard is based on Move Count. The +/- scores are how each player did in the Round.

Burglar Green after Rd1 10 -1
Holden Purple after Rd1 11 +1

Burglar Purple after Rd1 10 +3
Holden Green after Rd1 7 -3

Burglar Green R2 AO 4 -6
*Holden Purple R2 AO 12 +1

I gained 1 move in R2 and Burglar lost 6. I don't think I have him beat just yet. This game could be trickier than it looks.

Burglar Purple R2 AO 11 +1
*Holden Green R2 AO 13 +6

I gained 6 moves here and he gained 1 so, looks like I won the round. This game is really close.

I played a Closed 2 in both of my games against Burglar. I'm not sure how I often I play a Closed 2 but I think it's probably less than half of my games. We'll see how it works out.

Lots of good games in this round so far!

[JohnGalt2341]

Round 2

Holden Green R2 11 -2
Snazzy Purple R2 8 +2

Holden Purple R2 13 +5
Snazzy Green R2 8 -2

Holden Green Rd3 OA11 Even
*Snazzy Purple Rd3 OA10 +2

Holden Purple Rd3 OA10 -3
*Snazzy Green Rd3 OA11 +3

This guy Snazzy is proving to be a much stronger player than I anticipated. These games couldn't be much closer than this. I may not get out of this Section alive considering I am behind in a game vs Burglar as well. But the good news for me is... we are entering the 4th and 5th rounds where subpar plays from earlier in the game will be exposed in these rounds. In MMA terms the fighters that do well in the 4th and 5th rounds are almost always fighters that have really good cardio. So, we're about to find out who has better cardio in the games above.

*=Round Winner

AO or OA is Available Options or Options Available, same thing.

[JohnGalt2341]

blanko Green R1 OA11 +4
*urantian Purple R1 OA13 +6

blanko Purple R1 OA6 -1
*urantian Green R1 OA12 +5

[JohnGalt2341]

. OA=Options Available.

Daniel Green Rd1 OA=10 Gain +3 D+2
Bernard Purple Rd1 OA=8 Gain +1 D-2

Daniel Purple Rd1 OA=5 Loss -2 Even Round
Bernard Green Rd1 OA=5 Loss -2

Daniel Green Rd1 OA=10 G+3 D+1
joook Purple Rd1 OA=9 G+2 D-1

Daniel Purple Rd1 OA=9 G+2 D-3
joook Green Rd1 OA=12 G+5 D+3

*Daniel Green Rd2 OA12 +2
Bernard Purple Rd2 OA8 Even

*Daniel Purple Rd2 OA16 +11**(Wow! Let's call this the single most OA gained in a single Round)
Bernard Green Rd2 OA5 Even.



Daniel Green Rd2 OA8 -2
*joook Purple Rd2 OA9 Even

*Daniel Purple Rd2 OA11 +2
jook Green Rd OA11 -1

*Round Winner
**Unofficial Hexversi Record

[Daniel Espinosa]

Haha I hadnt realized that

[JohnGalt2341]

Holden Green Rd3 OA11 Even
*Snazzy Purple Rd3 OA10 +2

Holden Purple Rd3 OA10 -3
*Snazzy Green Rd3 OA11 +3

This guy Snazzy is proving to be a much stronger player than I anticipated. These games couldn't be much closer than this. I may not get out of this Section alive considering I am behind in a game vs Burglar as well. But the good news for me is... we are entering the 4th and 5th rounds where subpar plays from earlier in the game will be exposed in these rounds. In MMA terms the fighters that do well in the 4th and 5th rounds are almost always fighters that have really good cardio. So, we're about to find out who has better cardio in the games above.

*=Round Winner

AO or OA is Available Options or Options Available, same thing.

*Holden Green Rd4 OA10 -1
Snazzy Purple Rd4 OA2 -8

*Holden Purple Rd4 OA9 -1
Snazzy Green Rd4 OA3 -8

Looks like experience is going to pay off for me in the games above. Snazzy is a good player though.

[JohnGalt2341]

After Round 1 of blanko's games with Ryan and Toptal.

blanko Green Rd1 OA9 +2
*Ryan Purple Rd1 OA13 +6

blanko Purple Rd1 OA9 +2
*Ryan Green Rd1 OA10 +3



*blanko Green Rd1 OA8 +1
Toptal Purple Rd1 OA4 -3

*blanko Purple Rd1 OA10 +3
Toptal Green Rd1 OA6 -1