[edawg]

You gotta workout two major muscle masses at the same time. This will force your body to generate more of your testosterone.

Whiskey and Dead Lifts FTW

[chilidog]

Yep, I'm dead tired around 11PM or Midnight. I feel like I could sleep for at least 8 hours... to 10 hours. I wake up for no apparent reason... look at the clock and it's 4AM... and I'm like fuk my life. Why do you do this for? And there's just no way I'm going back to bed... can't fall asleep... so... I say to myself... F it... I'm going to the gym. I know I have just enough energy to get me through another workout.

What do you think is going on chili?

Just trust me on it, the temporary fix is really simple. Put 3-4 saltine crackers (or any other salty, carb snack, like plain ritz crackers or regular salted pretzels) by your bed and a glass of water. When you wake up and you can't get back to sleep, eat the snack and wash em down with some water. It'll take anywhere from 15-30 minutes, but you'll start to start winding down and you'll drift back to sleep. Make sure the snack is simple, no fat. Just a salty carb snack. No potato chips, they have too much fat. Keep it simple, saltine crackers or some pretzels.

As for what's going on, think about a time that you've been really excited, nervous, angry, scared, about to win/lose a big bet, etc. Part of that rush of emotion is caused by adrenaline. It's the "fight or flight" hormone. These stress hormones (cortisol and adrenaline) are being elevated higher than normal early in the morning, causing you to wake up and unable to go back to sleep. I don't know why specifically it's happening to you, that's something only you (or your doctor) can answer. Stress can be caused by many things, not just emotional stress. Being too tired, exercising too much, financial stress, eating a bad diet, etc.

It could also be caused by stimulants, like drinking coffee or taking any pre-workout supps after early afternoon. A very low carb diet, such as ketosis, can also cause the insomnia.

Ultimately, you're going to have to figure out what's causing you the stress and stop doing it. You don't have to say so on here, just ask yourself, has anything changed recently?

[raydog]

there is no optimum t level for dropping fat... i guess in theory, the higher, the better, because the more active you are, the better chance you have to burn calories... but fat loss is diet based and aided by steady cardio... you can lose fat by sitting on your ass and cutting calories... telling you an optimum t level for that is some seriously bad bro science... my levels were around 300 ... trt gets them in the 8-900 range ... blasting puts it at an obnoxious level and half the blasts are strictly for weight/muscle gain and eating 5-6k cals a day is going to produce some fat... so you can see the flaw in the idea of an optimum t level for fat loss

tms, you need to pre load your creatine for a week... no less than 15g a day for a week, then do with it what you like (not under 5g) if you are taking one dose, i believe its more beneficial before workout... but like i said, i take it before and after... so a little trial and error may be in order for you

[TheMoneyShot]

Chilidog - Thanks for your post. I will definitely try the cracker routine at night. I can't really specify what it is? I don't feel tense. I'm not stressed about anything. Just common life situations we all go through each day. Sometimes I just blame it on the seasons... in the Fall and Winter... I sleep like a baby. In the Summer time... I don't know if it's the early daylight... or heat... or whatever... but the last 2-3 weeks I just can't sleep well. And again... last night.. went to bed at 3AM.. woke up right at 8AM. Another 5 hour sleep.

I agree with what you said with these Adrenaline rushes... has to be it. My entire life... I always go to bed on a full stomach. I have to eat... I know it's not the best for dieting.. but I need large amounts of food in my stomach before I crash... typically always makes me sleep longer. I've tried going to bed on a half stomach... or empty stomach... and I get up within 2-3 hours from falling asleep... hungry as hell.

When I have momentum in my diet... it feels good working out wise... but I know I lack in other areas... including sleep. Body just won't rest. Maybe it's just one of those things? I don't know? Like... your body's time clock? It just knows when you need sleep... and when you don't? It all evens out later? I hope so.

Thanks for your input again. Much appreciated!



raydog - Thanks man!

[edawg]

there is no optimum t level for dropping fat... i guess in theory, the higher, the better, because the more active you are, the better chance you have to burn calories... but fat loss is diet based and aided by steady cardio... you can lose fat by sitting on your ass and cutting calories... telling you an optimum t level for that is some seriously bad bro science... my levels were around 300 ... trt gets them in the 8-900 range ... blasting puts it at an obnoxious level and half the blasts are strictly for weight/muscle gain and eating 5-6k cals a day is going to produce some fat... so you can see the flaw in the idea of an optimum t level for fat loss

tms, you need to pre load your creatine for a week... no less than 15g a day for a week, then do with it what you like (not under 5g) if you are taking one dose, i believe its more beneficial before workout... but like i said, i take it before and after... so a little trial and error may be in order for you

Try taking just 2 to 3 grams post workout for a month and see what happens I think you will be happy with the results.

[chilidog]

TMS, if the insomnia is a new thing that just started happening, then something is triggering it. You wake up, you have a lot of energy, maybe your mind is racing. Something is causing the abnormal spike in adrenaline and cortisol. It's doubtful that it's caused by eating a large meal before bed. Many people do that (including myself).

[McCarthyFam]

if youre looking for a good creatine...try the kind made by beast nutrition. You can find it on amazon. Its made with creapure. Its pure. I like to mix it with apple juice or grape juice. It spikes your insulin and gets it in your bloodstream. I would never take creatine with water. You will just piss it out

[raydog]

Try taking just 2 to 3 grams post workout for a month and see what happens I think you will be happy with the results.

im not sure where you got this idea..but heck, if it works for you, then thats awesome because a jug will last you much longer

but even as far back as say 20yrs ago, when it really became popular, nothing that i have ever heard/read involved dosing under 5mg a day after a loading stage ... im at the stage where im not really messing around with a program if i have seen really good results from it though... but again, if you get great results from less, thats all the better

mccarthy, if you are taking your creatine with a sugary juice, keep an eye on the sugar grams (as far as juice vs. water, you are going to piss out both and your water intake has to be consistently high for best results...and lack of cramping.. goddamn the creatine cramps hurt lol!) ... i eat a few pieces of candy during my last set of whatever and then slam my protein drink..(around 10g sugar) the sugar gives a little insulin spike and aids in protein transportation/synthesis ... and even if im low/no carbing, i eat some sort of fast digesting carb after workout... you have to refuel your glycogen levels... there is a ton of science behind it and results dont lie .. so for guys thinking that No carb diets = No carbs at all , it doesnt... you can def. have a little after workout ...

[edawg]

Always say you are your best trainer if it works for you stick with it. Only reason for suggestion is because once your body is saturated all your doing is wasting money and making your kidneys work a little harder. Creatine is a relatively safe supplement but more is only better for the people selling it. BOL!

[TheLock]

Totally agree with raydog about taking in some carbs post workout.

I went years thinking that my Jay Robb egg white protein shake was all I needed post workout

Wrong.

[edawg]

Yeah should be 3 to 1 carbs to protein.

[raydog]

Yeah should be 3 to 1 carbs to protein.

maybe if your goal is to bulk as ridiculously dirty as possible in order to have a career as a sumo wrestler lol

[chilidog]

I like drinking a glass of chocolate milk right after a workout. So do ya'll recommend creatine? Can you actually tell that it's working vs when you don't take it?

[TheMoneyShot]

Yeah should be 3 to 1 carbs to protein.

maybe if your goal is to bulk as ridiculously dirty as possible in order to have a career as a sumo wrestler lol

2 to 1 carbs to protein is the ideal ratio.

Try 1 to 1... and then 45 minutes of cardio in addition to lifting for an hour per workout. See how much your fat drops off your body in a month. You'd be amazed.

[TheMoneyShot]

I wanted to tell you guys about this company on Amazon called "Bulk Supplements". I believe there are out of Nevada. Make sure you check their mini store at Amazon. They sell pharmaceutical grade quality products.... Glutamine, Taurine, Creatine, Pure Ascorbic Vitamin C, BCAA Powder, Arginie, Leucine. You think of it... they have it. They have an amazing rating at Amazon as a store.... and the cheapest bulk prices ever. I subscribed to Prime (Free Trial) for the 2 day shipping feature. My supplies are arriving today. The only thing they don't have for cheap is Creatine Powder. Optimum Nutrition Creatine is the cheapest at Amazon.

[raydog]

I like drinking a glass of chocolate milk right after a workout. So do ya'll recommend creatine? Can you actually tell that it's working vs when you don't take it?

i stay on about 12 weeks and then off for 4 ... i have my strongest days when im On ... its usually the difference in 1-2 heavy reps for me ... its nothing quite like when dbol/test/tren etc. starts to kick in, but there seems to be less fatigue and weight feels a bit lighter... the whole shebang starts with the diet...

the ratios for carb intake will differ depending on goals... when im eating everything, ill drink a 60g protein shake leaving the gym and eat a protein bar with 10pro/20carb/200cal immediately... then ill eat 40-50g prot. more in the way of food anywhere from 45-60min later... with that ill eat 60-100g carbs of some sort of potato or rice ... but the ratios are virtually meaningless to me because im eating carbs with every meal (5-6 meals a day with 3 shakes)

if im cutting , ill eat maybe 30g complex carbs in the morning and 40ish after workout ... seeing as how you really need 1.5x your bodyweight in protein daily, 2-1 carb/pro ratio will not allow you to cut weight without running gear or wasting half your life away doing cardio ...

tms, you are just shy of 200lbs , right? try eating 300g pro/100g carb a day for a while ... 30 morning .. 30 during day ... 40 post workout ... if you workout during the day, try to bail on any nighttime carbs and maybe 15-20 min steady cardio after workout... you are trying to burn fat, not calories, so the hitt training or raising/lowering heart rate isnt needed

[BigDofBA]

Most of the over the counter supplements suck and are a waste of money. If you're going to spend all that money buying shit that doesn't work, you might as well try to goto the doctor and get testosterone...something that actually works.

Most people don't eat correctly and don't eat enough. The only supplements I would spend money on are creatine, proetin, and maybe a pre-workout although a pre-workout is not needed.

Now days they have all these different blends of protein. Don't get suckered into paying $60 bucks on something. It's all bullshit. Just get a basic protein.

They do the same stuff with creatine as well. They always have some new proprietary blend they're touting charging out the ass for. You can get the old school creatine monohydrate for like $10. This stuff works just as well as anything.

Pre-workouts are basically a lot of caffeine. I like them but they're overpriced and don't aid in building muscle. They just get you mentally ready to workout. Much of this is probable a placebo effect although the caffeine and beta alanine do help a bit.


The stuff I mentioned should only supplement your current diet. If you aren't eating enough and are eating shit, you will look like shit. Don't rely on protein shakes. The protein you get from food is much better.

When people at the gym ask me what I take, they're always surprised to learn I'm not taking many OTC supplements. All of these guys that drink like 3-4 protein shakes a day are still skinny. You don't get big from protein shakes but they're good right after a workout.

Here is a typical day of what I eat:

#1: 3 whole eggs, bowl of oatmeal, Orange Juice
#2: Can of Tuna
#3: 2 pieces of fish, sweet potato
#4: 2 eggs and 1/2 bowl of oatmeal (pre-workout)
#5: Protein Shake w/ Greek Yogurt and a banana or oatmeal (post Work out)
#6: 2 chicken brests, green beans (broccoli or sweet potato)
#7: Casein Protein Shake

When I snack I eat almonds, nuts, or have a turkey ham or chicken sandwhich. I don't stick to this exactly every day but the three main meals (breakfast, Lunch, dinner) always consists of eggs, fish, and chicken.

As for working out, I hit each body part twice a week. Now days people want to work out each body part once a week because they read it in some muscle mag or some pro bodybuilder does it. LMAO. That is better than doing nothing but most of these guys look like shit. You're not going to get big and ripped workout out each body part once a week for 45 minutes to an hour. Get out of here with that. Most people are lazy and want and easy way to get a great build. It doesn't work that way.

[BigDofBA]

As for my work outs, it typically looks something like this.

1. Chest/Delts/Tris (Bench)
2. Back/Bis/Traps/Forearms (Deadlifts)
3. Legs/Abs
4. Delts/Chest/Tris (military press)
5. Traps/Back/Bis (squat)
6. Legs/Abs
7. Off

I do different exercises each work out but bench, squat, and deadlift at least once every week. The deadlift and squats have two days between them because they are pretty taxing on the body. I mix in cardio 2-3 times a week when I have time but I'm not overly concerned about it. If you eat right and bust ass in the gym you will burn calories.

These aren't 45 minute workouts where your're texting for like 15 minuts of that time either. They take an hour to and hour and a half.

If you goto bodybuilding.com people will say this is overtraining but I'll compare my physique to those dudes anyday. They're usually like a 150 pounders.

Don't waste money on these gimicky ass supplements. The bodybuilders promoting this crap didn't get huge from taking muscletech. They have to hype their sponsors because they get paid by them.

[KVB]

In my humble, 150 some odd pound opinion, BigDofBA gets it.

[TheLock]

BigDo, solid posts.

I eat the same frequency as you and only use 1 protein shake a day post workout.
I also agree with you that cardio is overrated. Abs are made in the kitchen.


But my servings are smaller (ie: 1 piece of fish not 2).

My goal has always been this: lean (9%-12% body fat) and some bulk. A Men's Health cover physique as opposed to a Bodybuilding physique.

I'm going to be starting TRT within the next few months (my T-level dropped to 298 this year).

Do you think I need to do weight training 6 days a week or can I get by with 4 min/5 max? Right now I'm 6'-0", 191 pounds. Should I try eating as much as you're eating?

How late do you eat your last meal of the day?

[BigDofBA]

BigDo, solid posts.

I eat the same frequency as you and only use 1 protein shake a day post workout.
I also agree with you that cardio is overrated. Abs are made in the kitchen.


But my servings are smaller (ie: 1 piece of fish not 2).

My goal has always been this: lean (9%-12% body fat) and some bulk. A Men's Health cover physique as opposed to a Bodybuilding physique.

I'm going to be starting TRT within the next few months (my T-level dropped to 298 this year).

Do you think I need to do weight training 6 days a week or can I get by with 4 min/5 max? Right now I'm 6'-0", 191 pounds. Should I try eating as much as you're eating?

How late do you eat your last meal of the day?

Having smaller servings is perfectly fine. It's all about your goals. Most women prefer the Men's health cover physique anyway and I would say it probably a more socially desirable look as well.

298 is pretty low T-Levels. I think 1100 is the max the doctor will get you up to. If you get HRT it will definitely help

With your goals I think you would be perfectly fine working out 4 to 5 times a week and eating smaller portions.

I played sports all the throughout my life so I had an athletic build. In college my hobby was to get ripped so I lifted 4 times a week, ate perfectly, and did high intensity cardio three times a week. That shit works if you stick to it but it's boring and not very fun.

After I got the more defined abs and was pretty cut, I wanted to get bigger so I had to change my approach. Obviously I got a lot bigger but I lost some of the definition. It's hard to do both unless your are taking steroids.



With your goals I wouldn't have any carbs after 7 pm. You could probably drink a casein shake before bed though. It's a slower digesting protein so it will help to keep your metabolism running while you are sleeping.

Most people think that you'll put on weight the more you eat but really, eating less more often actually helps prevent you from putting on weight because it keeps your metabolism running and your not eating excessively when you do eat so your body isn't storing a lot of fat. It like keeping a fire going, when the fire is about to go out, you throw another log on it.

Genetics will only take you so far but working out is more of a mental thing. Just focus on being the best version of yourself that you can be and stick with it. You won't notice the results in the mirror because the changes are slow but if you take a picture and wait a few months you'll see drastic results.

Also, get to know your body. A lot of this is trial and error to figure out what your body responds to. There are basic core principles and variables but if you follow a pro bodyduilders routine, you aren't going to look like them.

[BigDofBA]

TheLock,

As for a workout routine, I would suggest trying this for a few months.

Monday - Upper Body (heavy)
Tuesday - Lower Body (light)
Wednesday - Off
Thursday - Upper Body (light)
Friday - Lower body (heavy)
Sat - Off
Sun - off


I had great results doing this when my goals were similar to yours. You space out the heavy days to give your Central Nervous system time to recover but the light days will still kick your ass. On the Heavy days you do reps in the 8-10 range and on the light days you reps in the 12 -15 range. Obviously you use heavier weights when you less reps. Don't be fooled by the light days either. These were always harder for me.

Stick to core compound movements such as the following

Barbell Bench
Military press
Pullups
Dips
Deadlifts
squats

Then you can mix in stuff like hammer curls, tricep push downs, and lunges. I typically would do abs on the leg days and do about five workouts per session.

I didn't get a lot of size doing this but I got a lot strong, my abs showed through, and I was pretty defined. GL

[edawg]

Good information! IMHO every man should get as strong as possible at a reasonable bodyweight. To many men worry about looking good and eating perfect and never get flat out strong. Abs and grip should be worked 6 days a week with low reps and heavy tension. You will be suprised on how strong you can get just doing that. Compound movements are best and the only time you should be siting or lying down is when your benching. Use A.S. Prilepin chart if you know your maxes, and keep all workouts under an hour if your not on gear.

[BigDofBA]

Good information! IMHO every man should get as strong as possible at a reasonable bodyweight. To many men worry about looking good and eating perfect and never get flat out strong. Abs and grip should be worked 6 days a week with low reps and heavy tension. You will be suprised on how strong you can get just doing that. Compound movements are best and the only time you should be siting or lying down is when your benching. Use A.S. Prilepin chart if you know your maxes, and keep all workouts under an hour if your not on gear.

Good post.

[edawg]

Thanks. Forgot to mention a good way to measure CNS fatigue is to take your heart rate every mourning upon waking if it is 10bpm over baseline go test your grip on a COC gripper or a heavy weighted hold if your grip is also down you need to take 2 days off. Of course you need baselines for the grip test as well. Also a 30 second tap test with finger works. However most people won't push hard enough for the CNS to be a problem.

[BigDofBA]

I agree about most people not pushing themselves hard enough.

Also, the stuff I posted was more of a guideline with some key cornerstones of a routine.

The flowing excercises are the foundation of my routines and everything is built off of them:

Bench
Squat
Deadlift
Military Press

You should be getting stronger at these excercises and not doing the same weight for say 2 months.

Also, I see a lot of people limit themselves based on reps. Ex. 12, 10, 8.

On that last set if you can get 10-11, go ahead and get it.

Don't just stop or lower the weight to get your reps. Those last 2-3 that hurt are where the gains are made.

Most people that set a goal of 10 reps get 10 reps because they aren't pushing themselves.

[raydog]

skinny guys pounding protein shakes crack me up too because they are doing it for an assbackwards reason and are, no doubt, not eating near enough actual food... one of the main reasons why the average joe, who works out 5 days a week, still looks like shit or a non-lifter, is because his protein intake is nowhere near what it should be... 1.5x your bodyweight MINIMUM boys ...

[BigDofBA]

If you rely on 3-4 protein shakes a day to get your protein, you will start getting a gut and piss out half of that anyway.

Shakes are ok as a "supplement".

I never took amino acid supplements but I have taken multi-vitamins. I stopped BC I still felt food worked better.

Food is the most anabolic supplement you can use but people want to do the easy thing and drink shakes or take gimicky testosterone boosters that do not work.

The Supplement industry is a scam that feeds on people that don't know any better.

All of these body builders got huge from eating a shit ton, lifting heavy ass weight, and taking large doses of steroids.

[edawg]

I agree about most people not pushing themselves hard enough.

Also, the stuff I posted was more of a guideline with some key cornerstones of a routine.

The flowing excercises are the foundation of my routines and everything is built off of them:

Bench
Squat
Deadlift
Military Press

You should be getting stronger at these excercises and not doing the same weight for say 2 months.

Also, I see a lot of people limit themselves based on reps. Ex. 12, 10, 8.

On that last set if you can get 10-11, go ahead and get it.

Don't just stop or lower the weight to get your reps. Those last 2-3 that hurt are where the gains are made.

Most people that set a goal of 10 reps get 10 reps because they aren't pushing themselves.

Agreed! Did you ever read Jim Wendler 5/3/1? Sounds like his program would be right up your alley.

[edawg]

skinny guys pounding protein shakes crack me up too because they are doing it for an assbackwards reason and are, no doubt, not eating near enough actual food... one of the main reasons why the average joe, who works out 5 days a week, still looks like shit or a non-lifter, is because his protein intake is nowhere near what it should be... 1.5x your bodyweight MINIMUM boys ...

Yep need more calories, heavy weights, and more rest. Problem is they buy into the marketing BS. Mr Olympia drinks protein shakes or the metrosexual self absored fitness model drinks protein shakes. What they fail to mention is the gear their running! Meanwhile we have 150lb skinny fat men who get outlifted by women but hey that 6 pack looks like it's coming in LOL

[TheLock]

I'm really diggin this thread, man.

Great info in here. Thanks for getting real specific, BigDo.

I'm going to start that Upper Body, Lower Body rotation you described. I need a drastic change up in my workout.

Which brings me to deadlifts.

I tweaked my back about a 7 months ago and have to be real careful with some of my movements. Anyone here still do deadlifts after a back injury? My back always gets sore (bad sore) when I do deadlifts now so I've been avoiding them but I know what a big part of a good workout they are.

Anyone have any good deadlift links or thoughts on deadlifts after a back tweak?

[BigDofBA]

Agreed! Did you ever read Jim Wendler 5/3/1? Sounds like his program would be right up your alley.

I haven't read that one but I have read several books and experimented with routines through trial and error over the years.

If you aren't on gear, aim to get stronger.

This once a week bodybuilding splits suck for the average Joe. When I first got into this when I stopped play sports, I tried one of those bodybuilding splits you would find in a magazine.

I got a little stronger but really after like three months I looked pretty much the same so I said screwed it, and tried something else.

[BigDofBA]

I'm really diggin this thread, man.

Great info in here. Thanks for getting real specific, BigDo.

I'm going to start that Upper Body, Lower Body rotation you described. I need a drastic change up in my workout.

Which brings me to deadlifts.

I tweaked my back about a 7 months ago and have to be real careful with some of my movements. Anyone here still do deadlifts after a back injury? My back always gets sore (bad sore) when I do deadlifts now so I've been avoiding them but I know what a big part of a good workout they are.

Anyone have any good deadlift links or thoughts on deadlifts after a back tweak?

Go light man. You can even do things without any weight to hit your lower back. Your lower back hardly ever gets worked out so when you first hit it, it will be really sore. Don't hurt yourself bc that will just set you back.

You could try doing hyperextensions for a few weeks just to get those muscles warmed up a bit.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ack-extensions

I always do this before I dead lift just to warm up a little but you could really make it an exercise and add weight by holding a dumbbell as needed.

For lats, I recommend pull ups vs the lat pull down. I usually start with pull ups and then when I fatigue I go into the lat pull down to finish them off.

Pulls ups always seem to give me a gauge of how in shape I am. Example, I've put on some weight so I'm at 225 now but I can still crank out 15 pull ups.

Back when I started this and I was at 175 I struggled with 8. lol

Also, with the upper/lower split, make sure you space out the deadlifts and squats. I do not recommend doing them back to back. When you start hitting legs twice a week you'll be surprised how quickly your core starts to strengthen and how you will start see muscles pop up in your mid-section.

[raydog]

If you rely on 3-4 protein shakes a day to get your protein, you will start getting a gut and piss out half of that anyway.

Shakes are ok as a "supplement".

I never took amino acid supplements but I have taken multi-vitamins. I stopped BC I still felt food worked better.

Food is the most anabolic supplement you can use but people want to do the easy thing and drink shakes or take gimicky testosterone boosters that do not work.

The Supplement industry is a scam that feeds on people that don't know any better.

All of these body builders got huge from eating a shit ton, lifting heavy ass weight, and taking large doses of steroids.

i agree on some things, and doubt, you never want to get dependent on excessive shakes..you simply wont grow like you want... but this is wrong, ugh so wrong... no idea where you got that idea...3 avg. shakes is what, 30g and 450 calories, give or take... if you are active and have goals and that gives you a gut, then im ronnie coleman... its called "meal replacement" for a reason... but its dependent on the rest of your diet, actual activity and your goals...you arent pissing out protein unless for some reason, your body wont absorb as much as you are feeding it at once...ridiculous bro science will say you can only absorb 30g ish of pro at once... ignorant parroting ... the amount of muscle mass you possess will determine what you can actually handle

i eat no less than 5 meals a day, if im maintaining or eating heavy, i drink 3 60g protein shakes with that... even when on a cut, ill drink no less than 150g out of shakes a day and ive walked around at 180ish 10-11% for the last year... of course, i work my ass off too and could get in the 5-6% range if thats what i decide to do and do a show, but will never fear a Gut because of shakes... again, some shakes might have 25g pro and someone elses might have 60, so you need to be specific instead of just saying 3-4 shakes a day is too much... but im not here to argue... glad we can help folks in different ways

and i agree, supplements are so grossly overpriced and are pushed by guys being paid to do so, it gives most a bad name... basic/cheap stuff is good for 99% of the people out there... just make sure to read labels/nutrition closely, especially with protein... its not all the same and your specific goals should make the choice for you...

[BigDofBA]

i agree on some things, but this is wrong, ugh so wrong... no idea where you got that idea...3 avg. shakes is what, 30g and 450 calories, give or take... if you are active and have goals and that gives you a gut, then im ronnie coleman... its called "meal replacement" for a reason... but its dependent on the rest of your diet, actual activity and your goals...you arent pissing out protein unless for some reason, your body wont absorb as much as you are feeding it at once...ridiculous bro science will say you can only absorb 30g ish of pro at once... ignorant parroting ... the amount of muscle mass you possess will determine what you can actually handle

i eat no less than 5 meals a day, if im maintaining or eating heavy, i drink 3 60g protein shakes with that... even when on a cut, ill drink no less than 150g out of shakes a day and ive walked around at 180ish 10-11% for the last year... of course, i work my ass off too, but will never fear a Gut because of shakes... again, some shakes might have 25g pro and someone elses might have 60, so you need to be specific instead of just saying 3-4 shakes a day is too much... but im not here to argue... glad we can help folks in different ways

and i agree, supplements are so grossly overpriced and are pushed by guys being paid to do so, it gives most a bad name... basic/cheap stuff is good for 99% of the people out there... just make sure to read labels/nutrition closely, especially with protein... its not all the same and your specific goals should make the choice for you...

Maybe bloat would be a better word? And I was talking more about the guys that rely only on protein shakes to get their nutrition. That wouldn't apply to you.

I just feel better and feel leaner when I cut down on the protein shakes and eat more eggs, chicken, fish, etc. That could just be me though.

I drink two protein shakes a day btw. One post workout and a Casein Shake before bed. I just remember back in the day drinking like 4-5 and I felt like my stomach was bloated. With that said, I'm bigger these days than I was when I started this.