[Ghenghis Kahn]

note to self, avoid all malaysian air flights...

[Ghenghis Kahn]

they think it's the russians that took them down.

[Monitor-Tan]

There's only one plane I'm ever flying on from now on...

I can't seem to find Air Force One seats on expedia...

[shari91]

The Ukrainian government said on Thursday that a Russian military plane had shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet in Ukrainian airspace the previous evening, a serious allegation of direct intervention by Russia’s armed forces.If confirmed, the confrontation would represent the first open and direct involvement by Russia’s military in eastern Ukraine since the separatist rebellion began there in April.
There was no immediate confirmation or denial by Russian officials. Vladislav Brig, a spokesman for one of the separatist groups in eastern Ukraine, said in a telephone interview that rebel fighters had shot rockets at two or three Ukrainian fighter jets on Wednesday evening. Mr. Brig said the rockets were fired from the ground.

The Ukrainian government alleged a more dramatic midair confrontation, involving Russia.
“Military aircraft of the Russian Federation carried out a rocket attack on a Su-25 plane of the armed forces of Ukraine, which was on a mission in Ukraine,” Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, said on Thursday at a news briefing in Kiev, the Ukrainian capital. “Our plane was shot down.”

Though there is a growing body of evidence that Russia has provided tanks, weapons and other support to the separatist rebels, and several leaders of the insurrection have identified themselves as Russian citizens, there has been no proof of active engagement in Ukraine by the regular Russian military. The Ukrainian government, however, has complained on several occasions of violations of its airspace by Russian aircraft.

Mr. Lysenko said the pilot of the Su-25 fighter had ejected from the aircraft and parachuted safely to the ground, and had been removed to safety by Ukrainian ground forces. “The pilot had no injuries,” he said.

Although President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has called repeatedly in recent weeks for a renewal of peace negotiations that would directly involve separatist leaders, the United States has said Russia has stepped up its military support for the rebels. On Wednesday, President Obama announced additional economic sanctions to penalize Russia for its role in the Ukraine crisis.
“Even in the face of all this diplomacy that’s been going on and very high-level efforts by us and by key members of the European Union, notably France, Germany, the U.K., in fact, over the past month, the flow of heavy weapons and support for separatists from Russia has actually increased,” a senior Obama administration official said on Wednesday, during a briefing for reporters about the new sanctions.
“You will have seen on social media over the last week convoys of Russian tanks, armored personnel carriers, infantry combat vehicles, Grad rocket launchers, Howitzers, self-propelled mortars flowing into Ukraine,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity under the ground rules that the White House has imposed for such briefings.

Ukraine and Russia have traded several accusations of cross-border hostilities in recent days. The Russian Foreign Ministry, for instance, warned of potentially “irreversible consequences” after a man was killed in the Russian city of Donetsk, which shares the same name as the regional capital in eastern Ukraine where rebel forces have been regrouping in recent days. The Russians said the man was killed by a mortar shell fired from the Ukrainian side of the border.

Ukraine, in turn, has accused Russia of firing a rocket that destroyed an Antonov-26 military transport plane on Monday, and Ukraine also accused Russian military planes of carrying out an airstrike that destroyed a residential building and killed 11 people in the town of Snizhne on Tuesday morning.
The American official who briefed reporters on the new sanctions said the Ukrainian transport plane had been flying at an altitude of 21,000 feet. “Only very sophisticated weapons systems would be able to reach this height,” the official said.
In explaining the sanctions, American officials also noted that three of the top leaders of the separatist movement — Alexander Borodai, the prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic; Igor Strelkov, the republic’s defense minister; and Pavel Gubarev, its governor — are Russian citizens.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/wo...e-package&_r=1

Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum · 1h

july 15 @sikorskiradek from Kiev: "concerned at supply of MANPADS to separatists.Their proliferation is threat to civil aviation everywhere

NATOSource @NATOSource · 1h
Malaysian Airlines flight #MH17 reported to have been shot down by BUK-M1 [aka SA-11] surface-to-air missile system


Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum · 1h

Donetsk commander Strelkov, longtime Russian agent, claimed credit today for shooting plane he thought was Ukrainian



Anne Applebaum @anneapplebaum · 58m

Donetsk separatists captured BUK missiles in June http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738262

June 29, 19:30 UTC+4


No details are available about the number and condition of the missile systems taken over by the self-defence forces


Self-defence forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic have taken control over a missile defence army unit equipped with Buk missile defence systems, the press service of the Donetsk People’s Republic told Itar-Tass on Sunday. So far, no details are available about the number and condition of the missile systems taken over by the self-defence forces. The press service refused to comment.
The Buk missile defence system is a mobile medium-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) system designed to defend field troops and logistics installations against air threats in conditions of heavy electronic countermeasures and intense enemy fire.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

how can these clowns not tell the difference between a military jet and a commercial airliner?

i think whoever took it down, they just wanted to test their missile.

[pavyracer]

If Ukraine is sending fighter jets to bomb the rebels and at the same time is giving commercial jets of other countries clearance to fly over the same area then this is a recipe for disaster.

[BigdaddyQH]

Everyone knows that it was a Russian missle that shot this plane down. The question is who did it? This is Putin's worst nightmare. When the casualty list comes out, with all of those European names on it, there is going to be hell to pay.

[Swinging Johnson]

I'm no international geo-political expert as my question will surely attest but what juice does it give either side to knock down a civilian airliner? If a military plane enters contested airspace I can understand the response but a civilian plane? I think whomever is responsible has certainly alienated themselves from international support if there was any to begin with.

Shari, please give me the quick down and dirty as to who shot it down and why if you can. Thanks!

[BigdaddyQH]

Latest reports state that there were 23 Americans killed on that plane. Now what is that balless B**tard in the White House going to do besides duck the issue?

[pavyracer]

This is the Buk launcher the Ukraine government says was used. It's not shoulder fired.

[Monitor-Tan]

This is the Buk launcher the Ukraine government says was used. It's not shoulder fired.

Could be wrong but I dun think a shoulder fired surface to air can reach a commercial airline that's at a cruising alititude

[shari91]

I'm no international geo-political expert as my question will surely attest but what juice does it give either side to knock down a civilian airliner? If a military plane enters contested airspace I can understand the response but a civilian plane? I think whomever is responsible has certainly alienated themselves from international support if there was any to begin with.

Shari, please give me the quick down and dirty as to who shot it down and why if you can. Thanks!

The aviation expert earlier suggested that due to the altitude they might not have known it was a civilian plane and just got trigger happy. Others are suggesting that they indeed knew and it was Putin's way of payback for the sanctions. So far I'm going with option A because between the Americans, Euros and I suspect Aussies on board as KL is a major travel hub between here and Europe, you're right that whomever did this has royally f'd up their chances for any support whatsoever. If anything I can see this turning into a war of some sort.

[newguy]

Latest reports state that there were 23 Americans killed on that plane. Now what is that balless B**tard in the White House going to do besides duck the issue?

What would you do if you were POTUS?? 23 Americans who were on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. A flight that didn't originate or terminate or was scheduled to terminate on US soil? Do we just bomb the shit out of that whole region for the shit of it or what? Im no supporter of the guy in the WH but what does he do to retaliate? What would you do if you were in there?

[itchypickle]

Hear they've shot down 10 other military aircraft in the past few months...so its not as if this was a one off luck shot. Capability is there, maybe they didn't know this was a flight from Amsterdam? We shall see.

[Tseay]

Thank goodness Obama has defeated terrorism.

[Monitor-Tan]

That's a lot of potential weed they shot down..

[shari91]

Nataliya Gumenyuk @ngumenyuk · 2m
Russian LifeNews & RIA news reported "rebels" shot down UKR AN-26 10min after #MH17 was shot exactly where it crashed http://goo.gl/igWdk0

Retweeted by Nataliya Gumenyuk Simon Shuster @shustry · 45m
Spoke to Ukraine separatist leader Tsarev. Says they don't have the weapons to take down #MH17. Hung up when asked about their BUK missiles

[itchypickle]

There's only one plane I'm ever flying on from now on...

I can't seem to find Air Force One seats on expedia...

Check the chinese travel sites, getting close to them being the title holder for the plane so....

[itchypickle]

Thank goodness Obama has defeated terrorism.

You didn't hear the White House press secretary this week...we're in an era of global tranquility Bubblegum clouds and candy cane trees...peace everywhere you look according to the administration.

[shari91]

Conor ShanleyVerified account ‏@Conor_utv

A passenger posted Facebook pic of flight MH17 before boarding saying "If it disappears, this is what it looks like"










German, Dutch and Malaysian airports. Reported to be 80 children onboard.

[Monitor-Tan]

This just makes me want to watch behind enemy lines again...

[BigdaddyQH]

What would you do if you were POTUS?? 23 Americans who were on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. A flight that didn't originate or terminate or was scheduled to terminate on US soil? Do we just bomb the shit out of that whole region for the shit of it or what? Im no supporter of the guy in the WH but what does he do to retaliate? What would you do if you were in there?

Obama is a complete and total pussy when it comes to this sort of thing. We know what is going to happen now. We know that a Russian Seperatist shot the plane down thinking it was a Ukranian supply cargo jet. When he realized what he had done, he immediately removed all of those posts and just disappeared. Putin and the Russians will deny that their people had anything to do with this. The Ukranians will deny that they had anything to do with this. Obama will go on T.V. to tell us his usual B.S. line. THe U.S. Government will not sit still for this. Then nothing will happen. The End. A Walt Disney Production.

If I am POTUS, I arm the hell out of the Ukranians and do everything I can to make sure that the Ukranians win this war. I also put the economic squeeze on Putin and Company. Obama is seen as a complete pussy by the rest of the world. The next President had better not be afraid to kick some arse.

[pavyracer]

Obama is a complete and total pussy when it comes to this sort of thing. We know what is going to happen now. We know that a Russian Seperatist shot the plane down thinking it was a Ukranian supply cargo jet. When he realized what he had done, he immediately remove3d all of those posts and just disappeared. Putin and the Russians will deny that their people had anything to do with this. The Ukranians will deny that they had anything to do with this. Obama will go on T.V. to tell us his usual B.S. line. THe U.S. Government will not sit still for this. Thennothing will happen. The End. A Walt Disney Production.

If I am POTUS, I arm the hell out of the Ukranians and do everything I can to make sure that the Ukranians win this war. I also put the economic squeeze on Putin and Company. Obama is seen as a complete pussy by the rest of the world. The net President had better not be afraid to kick some arse.

Or separate Ukraine and give the part the separatists want and the war is over. No one dies.

[jbart28]

The mother fuker is going to martha's vineyard for a 16 day vacation. That is what he is going to do about it. Plus, he is too busy bankrupting the country with his new illegal alien voting block invading our nation, while our veterans who fought for our nation die in the street waiting for healthcare. sick

[shari91]

BREAKING: Obama to address Malaysian plane crash at beginning of remarks in Delaware, starting shortly: White House

[Let's Go Rangers]

This gets the illegals crossing the border off the front pages.

Im sure Obama will issue a strongly worded threat about red lines or lines in the sand..

He will call it a tragedy. ..but NOT terrorism

He will then go on vacation or golfing or to fundraisers

[DwightShrute]

This gets the illegals crossing the border off the front pages.

Im sure Obama will issue a strongly worded threat about red lines or lines in the sand..

He will call it a tragedy. ..but NOT terrorism

He will then go on vacation or golfing or to fundraisers

probably squeeze in a few games of pool also

[shari91]

Henry Thoreau ‏@Thoreau_H_D 1m Ukraine: TV Inter Journalist says he saw the BUK team that that took out #MH17

[jbart28]

This gets the illegals crossing the border off the front pages.

Im sure Obama will issue a strongly worded threat about red lines or lines in the sand..

He will call it a tragedy. ..but NOT terrorism

He will then go on vacation or golfing or to fundraisers

He will slip in some fundraising along the way. Maybe have his IRS scum destroy some additional hard drives also

[itchypickle]

BREAKING: Obama to address Malaysian plane crash at beginning of remarks in Delaware, starting shortly: White House

A whopping two sentences devoted to the tragedy before going right back to politics.

[Let's Go Rangers]

The FAA sent out warnings back in April to avoid Ukraine airspace

[teaserpleaser]

Its all Obama's fault....none of this would have happened if Bush was in office. YEE!!-HAW!!!

[Let's Go Rangers]

A whopping two sentences devoted to the tragedy before going right back to politics.

I'm thinking this is just a tragic accident.

The US should send Air Force One flying over the same airspace just to prove that it was an accident

[BigdaddyQH]

Or separate Ukraine and give the part the separatists want and the war is over. No one dies.

This message was brought to you by Neville Chamberlain circa 1938 in Berlin.

[jbart28]

Its all Obama's fault....none of this would have happened if Bush was in office. YEE!!-HAW!!!

Hey man start filing your taxes quarterly if you dont already. Obama needs your money to give to the illegal alien children so he can built a resort for them.