[peppermillrick]

What? No Sharia Law? What is the matter with you!

[zizoudane10]

You're close. Dyslexic, but close. God was created by Man, not the inverse.

[PhillyFlyers]

You're close. Dyslexic, but close. God was created by Man, not the inverse.

Sure He was. And pigs can fly too.

[chilidog]

Sure He was. And pigs can fly too.

So you draw the line at believing in pigs flying, but an invisible zombie ruling the world is perfectly fine in your book, eh?

[zizoudane10]

So you draw the line at believing in pigs flying, but an invisible zombie ruling the world is perfectly fine in your book, eh?

Dumbest donkey around. Put this bitch on ignore and be done with it. Waste of time.

[lucullus]

Look out, seriously is correct. Don't know how old you are, but back in the day if you fought someone, someone
jumped in and broke it up. You got up and shook each others hand, it was over.

Now a days, people will cheer the fight. If it's a racial fight, you have one or the other ganging up. The lack of respect
among people is the worst I've ever seen. If a gun is involved, more than likely someone gets shot. Tempers exploding
within a micro second and it doesn't stop until someone gets hurt.

You see the chaos all across the globe.

Church membership is down across all denominations. Is that a reason why morals went out the window? Did a gate
of hell open up and release it's demons? Is the universe expansion the cause of our lack of temperament?

All I know is something is going on and it ain't pretty. I'm preparing for Christ's return. I don't want to be on his
shit list.

I find the first half of your post to be true, but this was not caused by any thing to do with the church, other way around, and I've made my case clear as to why in the other thread where we discussed the religion.

Why invest your energy into some thing that has been shown time and time again to be a fraud or a falsehood? There are many option's out there that can fix social problem's that are real, civil, and smart, unlike the former option - religion.

[The Kraken]

I have found living in urban America rather stressful and depressing.

We prefer rural. We have land, we're outside everyday, can't see the neighbors (Can hear them hunting and shooting), watch the news every few days. My weather forecast is gotten from looking out the window. Life is slow. I don't worry about being robbed or knocked out. I worry about snakes and shit but not people.

[rkelly110]

I find the first half of your post to be true, but this was not caused by any thing to do with the church, other way around, and I've made my case clear as to why in the other thread where we discussed the religion.

Why invest your energy into some thing that has been shown time and time again to be a fraud or a falsehood? There are many option's out there that can fix social problem's that are real, civil, and smart, unlike the former option - religion.

While I'm not as devout as Philly on religion, I was made to go until 18 and haven't gone back since, except for a wedding or two. I guess during that time, along with being in the scouts who taught me to conserve the earth, some teachings have sunk in and made me the man that I am today. If left to my own devices and a family who didn't care what I did, who knows how I would've turned out.

My point is, I was taught morals through church and the scouts. Not because I was afraid of going to hell, but because
it's the right thing to do. If kids and their parents have no morals, where are they to learn them from?

Some of the Arab world are teaching their kids to hate Jews and Americans. Guess what those kids are going to grow
up as?

Most of my energy is trying to be the best person I can be with a little bit of god thrown in. (along with making my bets)

[chilidog]

If kids and their parents have no morals, where are they to learn them from?

Religion does not define our morality.

Let's take a look at modern tribal civilizations, that still speak their own languages, and do not use most modern conveniences. These civilizations do not believe in the Christian faith (as they have had little to no outside influence - and yet, they're all going to Hell to burn and suffer for eternity, because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior - seems kind of harsh, doesn't it?) and yet, they have morals. Explain.

[ACoochy]

Religion does not define our morality.

Let's take a look at modern tribal civilizations, that still speak their own languages, and do not use most modern conveniences. These civilizations do not believe in the Christian faith (as they have had little to no outside influence - and yet, they're all going to Hell to burn and suffer for eternity, because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior - seems kind of harsh, doesn't it?) and yet, they have morals. Explain.

Nicely done.

[Conan]

Not secularism (which is its own religion but thats another debate for another thread etc) but a state whereby religion does not influence social or political policy (although religion stills has its enclaves, just not to the same degree of influence they do now) and where people are all treated as equals under one set of laws, where man is the creator of all and not god?

Yeah, i know that sounds way TOO ideological but governments all around the world are seemingly clambering to adopt this ideology into the everyday mechanisms of society.

So i ask, what is inherently wrong with a secular state?? From the research ive done it seems as though the countries that are the most socially and economically prosperous around the globe are also those that have a high % of secular citizens.

What does this prove??

lot of crappy bashing going on here so i will simply reply my opinion to the original question, the problem is we will never and i must reiterate never agree on the religion to base our society on. religion is a doctor in of customs and be leafs and ad along as everyone has the same customs and beliefs religion will unify them highlighting how similar we all are however even small variations on those beliefs and customs i.e. sunni and shiite (both Muslims) hate each other evan though they practice the same religion just in a slightly different ration. this problem is compounded by the wide array of base religions. The problem lies with religions flaming universality< my god is the only god and created everyone, this allows for no tolerance of variations there is no different there is just right and wrong. and as i stated earlier you will never get any significantly large group of people to all agree, it is often difficult to get large groups of people to agree on facts with evidence let alone a belief structure that involves individual faith. and in my humble opinion that is what is wrong with having a secular state. there is nothing wrong with having a little faith but when it is institutionalized into government you are forcing others to come to your faith and that creates massive problems.

[swordsandtequila]

I think the op meant a secular state where you believe what you want to believe (providing no infringement on others rights) and keep it out of policy making. You're correct in that people will never agree universally concerning religion, therefore no reason to base laws/policy that affect everyone on a particular belief.