[mighty maron]

Ray Lewis was never cut from the Ravens and even gave statments from a Baltimore Ravens practice facility. He is arrested for murder.....he eventually pleads out to lesser charges.

Rae Carruth was charged and posted bail of 3 million. Adams died and he became a fugitive...Carolina cut him a few days latter.

Hernandez was arrested and on the same day was cut......Where is the due process?


If he cuts a plea to something significantly less than murder like Lewis did does Hernandez have any recourse since it is well known that the murder charge go him cut?


I for one do not like the Patriot's move in this case...no due process whatsoever. I am actually hoping the guy is found innocent to see what he can do against the owner.

Where do other people feel about this due process compared to Lewis or even Carruth?

[sweep]

Dudes guilty

[pinnacle420]

Its a different era now!!! and Carolina and Baltimore aren't the same type of program that the pattys are... the craft family don't fuk around and they are willing to roll the dice... the dudes fuked.. his boys are snitching now to save their asses... he's done

[bobby heenan]

he could be a free man tomorrow....what can he do against the patriots?

[Plus573]

Ray Lewis was never cut from the Ravens and even gave statments from a Baltimore Ravens practice facility. He is arrested for murder.....he eventually pleads out to lesser charges.

Rae Carruth was charged and posted bail of 3 million. Adams died and he became a fugitive...Carolina cut him a few days latter.

Hernandez was arrested and on the same day was cut......Where is the due process?


If he cuts a plea to something significantly less than murder like Lewis did does Hernandez have any recourse since it is well known that the murder charge go him cut?


I for one do not like the Patriot's move in this case...no due process whatsoever. I am actually hoping the guy is found innocent to see what he can do against the owner.

Where do other people feel about this due process compared to Lewis or even Carruth?

Due process? Are you serious here?

[mighty maron]

At the time the Ray Lewis situation played out, do you feel that he was guilty like A.H. is?

Until this goes to trial all we get is what is fed to us. I do not like this non "innocent until proven guilty" attitude.

[pinnacle420]

he could be a free man tomorrow....what can he do against the patriots?

right all they have to do is pay his contract out or let him back "which would never happen"..... he's a bad investment... Oakland would love him..

[mighty maron]

Due process? Are you serious here?

I think A.H. is as guilty as Ray Lewis is in the sense of what they were charged with....

[pinnacle420]

At the time the Ray Lewis situation played out, do you feel that he was guilty like A.H. is?

Until this goes to trial all we get is what is fed to us. I do not like this non "innocent until proven guilty" attitude.

I hear ya... but.............. it doesn't look good... hes in a lot of trouble... all for his "friend" talking to people he didn't like... really??? what a joke.... if found guilty I hope he rots... #THUGLIFE

[Plus573]

I think A.H. is as guilty as Ray Lewis is in the sense of what they were charged with....

The question is, do you think that the NFL, or any private organization for the matter, can only fire someone once they have had some sort of trial/proof of guilt?

[TheRifleman]

[mighty maron]

The question is, do you think that the NFL, or any private organization for the matter, can only fire someone once they have had some sort of trial/proof of guilt?

the morals clause gives them the easy way out. The NFL can cut anyone for anything.

Interesting if it was a guaranteed contract like MLB or NBA would the team be so quick to do so....if they cut him in those leagues and he is found innocent of murder then the legal challanges and contract fight would be interesting.

Due process....should have suspended him until the trial is done IMO...

[TheRifleman]

[TheRifleman]

[TheRifleman]

[pinnacle420]

^^^^^^

[CountNo_Account]

Due process? You are kidding right...

[InTheDrink]

its just how the nfl salary cap works guyey

if they couldnt get any benefit to cutting him then maybe they hang on to him

then again who wants the fukkin circus over the team all season if they keep him

the Patriots can try to recoup the signing bonus and other money they have already paid Hernandez, pending what happens to him legally. Regarding the salary cap, because it's post-June 1, Hernandez still counts roughly $4 million against the Patriots' cap, but the organization could get cap credits in the future.

[Andy117]

Hernandez was arrested and on the same day was cut......Where is the due process?


If he cuts a plea to something significantly less than murder like Lewis did does Hernandez have any recourse since it is well known that the murder charge go him cut?


I for one do not like the Patriot's move in this case...no due process whatsoever. I am actually hoping the guy is found innocent to see what he can do against the owner.

Where do other people feel about this due process compared to Lewis or even Carruth?

It's the NFL, they can cut you for any reason at any time and you're not due anything other than your signing bonus.

[TheRifleman]

It's the NFL, they can cut you for any reason at any time and you're not due anything other than your signing bonus.

that's not quite true, as usual, you're wrong.....a player with guaranteed money will still get paid if cut..... a lot of players have guaranteed money written into their contracts

[InTheDrink]

that's not quite true, as usual, you're wrong.....a player with guaranteed money will still get paid if cut..... a lot of players have guaranteed money written into their contracts

define a lot

is 5% a lot?

did aaron hernandez have guaranteed money?

oh

[TheRifleman]

define a lot

is 5% a lot?

did aaron hernandez have guaranteed money?

oh

I don't know the percentage of NFL player guaranteed money, but I 'd bet it's a lot higher than 5%....and Aa ron Hernandez had A LOT of guaranteed money....mostly in a signing bonus that he's already received.....nearly 10M.....and he's going to collect a few million more off his new contract....regardless of whether or not he was cut.....


oh

[TheRifleman]

In a surprising twist, this appears not to be the case with the five-year, $40-million extension signed by New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez in August of 2012. Upon close reading of his contract language -- and after confirming the development with an expert -- the "failure to perform" or "failure to practice" clause that appears in similar Patriots extensions is not present. This means Hernandez might be able to keep nearly $2.5 million of the deal, even if legal troubles prevented him from taking the field.

This could have a serious effect on Hernandez if he is ever suspended by the Patriots or the league for his connection to an ongoing homicide investigation in North Attleboro, Mass.

Exactly what does this mean?


According to his amended contract, Hernandez is guaranteed a total of $16 million. Of that, $9.25 million in a signing bonus already has been paid, with the final $3.25 million due in March 2014.


The rest of it comes in guaranteed base salaries for the 2013 and 2014 seasons, along with $1 million total guarantees in workout bonuses for the 2014 and 2015 offseasons. According to Paragraph 32(d) of his amended contract, the workout bonus is "null and void" if the player fails to report.


That "failure to report" clause is the one not present in the sections for his base salaries. In almost all other contracts, it would be.


That means, even if he is suspended or unable to report for any reason, the Patriots still might be on the hook for $1.323 million in 2013 and $1.137 million in 2014. It's unclear why the "failure to perform" or "failure to practice" clause is not present in Hernandez's contract.
Thanks to the missing clause, Hernandez might be able to keep monies that normally would have been voided even if he's not able to practice or play. For instance, the NFL recently won a grievance to show a suspended player's guarantee was no longer guaranteed after a suspension of four games.

Hernandez's deal does have offsets. If he's eventually cut and another team signs him, his new salary would cut into the $2.5 million he's guaranteed to be paid by the Patriots.


Neither Hernandez's representatives at Athletes First nor members of the Patriots administration were available for comment.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...riots-contract

[Andy117]

that's not quite true, as usual, you're wrong.....a player with guaranteed money will still get paid if cut..... a lot of players have guaranteed money written into their contracts

There is not generally a lot of guaranteed money in NFL contracts, especially when you compare the NFL to MLB or NBA contracts. Obviously if you have guaranteed money in your contract you'd get that but there's also the possibility of a behavior, morality clause built into the contract that a murder conviction would quite nicely take care of.
The OP's contention is that Hernandez wasn't given due process by the team and that if he's found not guilty that he'd have some recourse against the Patriots and that's just not correct. They don't need a reason to release a player and be free of him and all of his non-guaranteed money.

[TheRifleman]

There is not generally a lot of guaranteed money in NFL contracts, especially when you compare the NFL to MLB or NBA contracts. Obviously if you have guaranteed money in your contract you'd get that but there's also the possibility of a behavior, morality clause built into the contract that a murder conviction would quite nicely take care of.
The OP's contention is that Hernandez wasn't given due process by the team and that if he's found not guilty that he'd have some recourse against the Patriots and that's just not correct. They don't need a reason to release a player and be free of him and all of his non-guaranteed money.

what don't you understand? I know you're a dense liberal, but do you not understand that he's already collected millions, and he is going to collect millions more on his contract extension.......so, YOU'RE WRONG!!! Now , STFU, you said that NFL teams can just cut you, and that's that........well, that's incorrect!! And as usual, YOU ARE WRONG!!!! AGAIN!!

[TheMoneyShot]

I see where you're coming from Mighty Maron but...

Three things going on here...

1. Kraft family has probably examined every detail... everything points to him as a murderer. You get released. End of story.

2. I don't see a lesser charge for Hernandez. He's in deep sh#$.

3. I think you can be released by any NFL team for any reason. And if you can't... show me an article of a former NFL player who sued for a release and gained over 50%+ of his original contract.

[TheMoneyShot]

And why in the hell is this thread in the Saloon for? Clearly should be in Players Talk.

[mighty maron]

I see where you're coming from Mighty Maron but...

Three things going on here...

1. Kraft family has probably examined every detail... everything points to him as a murderer. You get released. End of story.

2. I don't see a lesser charge for Hernandez. He's in deep sh#$.

3. I think you can be released by any NFL team for any reason. And if you can't... show me an article of a former NFL player who sued for a release and gained over 50%+ of his original contract.

1. Kraft bounced this man faster than the Panthers acted on Rae Carruth. The assumption of guilt is still not due process.

2. I think Ray Lewis was as guilty. He ran with a better class of felon who kept their mouths shut.

3. The NFL seems to be the league in which you can be cut for almost anything.

The presumption of guilt might be a byproduct of what we are being fed coupled with an owner's kneejerk reaction to a situation that affects his bottom line.

[Grits n' Gravy]

Pats will withhold remaining money due to Hernandez and let him sue for it.

[greenhippo]

Stallworth grand theft autod a guy and got off pretty clean.

[irish1]

The Ray Lewis Guide To Getting Away With Murder (This Is For You, Aaron Hernandez)

by Zach Berger | 3:26 pm, June 26th, 2013

In this day and age, it isn’t all that easy to get away with a crime as serious as murder, which is unfortunate for former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez, who was arrested today and charged with murder following the death of a semi-pro football player. But thankfully for Aaron, he can look back on the classic Ray Lewis method and if he executes it to perfection, he’ll get off scot-free.As you probably remember, Lewis was and two friends were arrested when two men were killed following a Super Bowl celebration party back in 2000. There was a fight. Two people were stabbed. Blood was found on Lewis’ suit and in his limo. Lewis was sentenced to 12 months probation while his two friends were found innocent in court.There were three steps to the Ray Lewis plan of attack to stay out of prison and on the football field. If Aaron Hernandez wants to avoid jail time and the end of his football career, he’s going to need to follow them very closely. Without further ado, here is The Ray Lewis Guide To Getting Away With Murder:Step 1. Agree to testify in court against your two friends in exchange for the murder charges against yourself being dropped. Tell your friends to play along with your story and not to contradict you, but not to admit to anything either. Go over the case with a legal expert and make sure that the testimony you plan on giving is strong enough to convince the prosecution to drop your charges, but not strong enough to actually convict your friends. That way, you get probation for originally lying about what happened, your friends are found innocent, and everyone goes home happy.Step 2. Whenever somebody questions you about the murder case for the rest of your life, use your religious beliefs to steer the line of questioning elsewhere. Here’s a great example from Ray Lewis himself when he was asked about the murders in a press conference before the 2013 Super Bowl:

Nobody here is really qualified to ask those questions. I just truly feel that this is God’s time, and whatever his time is, you know, let it be his will. Don’t try to please everybody with your words, try to make everybody’s story sound right. At this time, I would rather direct my questions in other places. Because I live with that every day. You maybe can take a break from it. I don’t. I live with it every day of my life and I would rather not talk about it today.

So, what happened there is that Lewis decided on God’s behalf that its God’s time, even though he says that time is God’s will. And when its God’s time, as Lewis decided that it is, you can’t ask him questions about his involvement in murders. Is a reporter going to tell you that it isn’t “God’s time” and make you answer the question? Never. In essence, this is a loophole to avoid answering questions about murder and it works flawlessly every single time.Step 3. In the third and final step, you pay off the family of the murder victim(s) in an out-of-court settlement, but make sure that the settlement involves a nondisclosure agreement so that the family can not mention what it was for. If you are ever asked about the settlement my the media, either explain that you can not talk about it or simply invoke the loophole described in Step 2.There you have it. If Aaron Hernandez wants to avoid going to jail and keep his two friends out of jail too, all he has to do is follow this simple plan and all of the issues will disappear. He might even be able to win a Super Bowl 13 years later and after that everyone will ignore the fact that he might have murdered somebody and ESPN might even hire him as an analyst, but we’re talking in hypotheticals here.

[mighty maron]

How does step 2 keep him out of jail....a quote on the 13 super bowl more than a decade after the charges were dropped...

[Thunder Gulch]

Lewis was running with the wrong guys and though he covered it up, he was more of caught up in a bad spot than participating- at least thats what I believe.

Hernandez and Carruth orchestrated premeditated executions. Those crimes are light years from what Lewis was in.

[mighty maron]

Lewis was running with the wrong guys and though he covered it up, he was more of caught up in a bad spot than participating- at least thats what I believe.

Hernandez and Carruth orchestrated premeditated executions. Those crimes are light years from what Lewis was in.

A person died in each case....

[Andy117]

what don't you understand? I know you're a dense liberal, but do you not understand that he's already collected millions, and he is going to collect millions more on his contract extension.......so, YOU'RE WRONG!!! Now , STFU, you said that NFL teams can just cut you, and that's that........well, that's incorrect!! And as usual, YOU ARE WRONG!!!! AGAIN!!

Actually it's you that doesn't understand the situation.

Also like I've said if you don't have guaranteed money and other than signing bonuses the majority of NFL contracts do not have guaranteed money, than any team can cut any player during the offseason and pay that player nothing.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ed-by-patriots

The New England Patriots have voided all of Aaron Hernandez's contract guarantees, according to a source informed of the Patriots' decision-making and an NFL Players Association source, meaning the former tight end will have to fight to receive even the portion of his signing bonus that he's already earned.
Hernandez was to receive $2.5 million in guaranteed base salaries over the next two seasons, and his contract does not have language to void that money if he fails to practice. However, the Patriots believe the Collective Bargaining Agreement covers them because he has engaged in conduct unbecoming after being arrested and charged with first-degree murder in the death of Odin Lloyd.
Darlington: Chilling lesson for rookies
How did players at the NFL Rookie Symposium react to Aaron Hernandez's murder charge? Jeff Darlington was on the scene. More ...



The Patriots also voided Hernandez's workout bonuses over the next two years, which add up to $1 million. Finally, the team has voided the rest of his signing bonus, which might be the Patriots' hardest fight.
As for his $3.25 million in signing bonus payment that was to be paid this March, that's a deferred payment that Hernandez already earned after signing his five-year, $40 million contract last year. The Patriots appear to have a serious uphill battle to avoid paying this, but they seem set on making Hernandez fight for this portion of his fully guaranteed signing bonus.
The Boston Globe, which first reported this news, says the Patriots will have a salary-cap hit of $2.55 million for Hernandez next year and $7.5 million in 2014.