[Marv001]

You have good points Fidel. I was leaning zim but you changed my mind to Martin. Also, I agree with the poster that had problems with the media. During the la riots, you saw Korean people on their rooftops with Uzis and the media making it look like blacks vs Koreans. My friend works there and he told me the opposite story. Black people in the neighborhood were holding their hands around Korean owned businesses to make sure they weren't looted. Bet no one snapped those pictures and recorded that, not enough drama and violence for the 10 o'clock news.

[Mac4Lyfe]

So, you are walking alone at night when a car is following you. It is pitch dark and the car circles around several times then a guy gets out and approaches you?? This is what happened. Trayvon could be heard on his gf's phone saying to Zimmerman... "Why are you following me"? Put yourself in the same situation. What are you thinking? Zimmerman approaches you, what do you do? Maybe he should have ran, but remember he was new to the neighborhood, maybe he didn't know which way to run?

What do you do? Do you try to defend yourself and punch Zimmerman out of fear, anger, what have you? Do you try and subdue Zimmerman as it appears that he's trying to rob you, kill you, what have you? Once, you're in a struggle, aren't you going to try and slam his head and hopefully knock him out?

Martin had no motive in any of this. He was on his way to the house. Remember that. Zimmerman profiled him the same way he's profiled many other black people (none of which ever amounted to anything). Did Zimmerman ever call the police for a white or Hispanic person? Nope. Did any of his calls lead to an arrest? Why would Zimmerman say "these assholes always get away"? Now, I don't give a shit what color either of these guys were but obviously to Zimmerman it made a difference.

Why would he get out of his truck and confront Martin? That's ludicrous. Put yourself in Zimmerman's place. Wouldn't you stay in your truck at the least. Then roll the window down and say "I'm a neighborhood watch person, why are you here, what are you doing"? Getting out of the truck was premeditated...

Its basically as simple case.

If Trayvon doesn't punch Zimmerman simply nothing happens that night.

If Trayvon doesn't punch Zimmerman or retreats after knocking him to the ground, simply nothing happens that night also.

the problem is the punk then got on top of Zimmerman and started slamming his head into the ground

[Kermit]

How about this, you are walking alone on a dark night a block away from when you live/are staying and you are scared because a car is following you. How about you just run a block to your home? That was what we did when I was a kid. From an athletic stand point it was a no contest over which one of these 2 people had the upper hand in the speed department. Trayvon certainly wasn't cornered as the area was pretty open.

Everyone keeps saying what Zimmerman should have done different, but let's be honest, what exactly did he do wrong that he probably had done many times in the past. He got out of his vehicle to see where this kid ran too. If the kid ran(which he obviously did) why didn't he just run to the house where he was staying? He sure was close enough.

This is the part that I simply do not get about all of this. When I was younger we had parents and neighbors that patrolled the neighborhood on foot, and at night it wasn't unusual to get confronted by an adult authority figure, but no one was ever so scared that we attacked anyone, especially an adult figure.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Zimmerman got training on being a neighborhood watch lead. The lady who did the training is testifying. She clearly shows the manual he received that states the do's and don't of being a watch person. It says in bold print to not be a vigilante. Do not follow, confront or pursue. To only be the eyes and ears of the police but never confront or go out of the house. To never follow anyone that is acting suspicious. Never engage someone that is suspicious. Call non emergency if there isn't a threat to life, call 911 if there is.

Does anyone else see something weird with Zimmerman calling non emergencies on 6 occasions and on each occasion he didn't want to give out his address?

[JJJ]

I was on zimmermans side but he thinks he is a police officer hes a neighborhood watch person acting like a police officer.....he should of just minded his own business and stop acting like a Robocop he stuck his damn nose into something he shouldn't have and this is what happens

[Fidel_CashFlow]

How about this, you are walking alone on a dark night a block away from when you live/are staying and you are scared because a car is following you. How about you just run a block to your home? That was what we did when I was a kid. From an athletic stand point it was a no contest over which one of these 2 people had the upper hand in the speed department. Trayvon certainly wasn't cornered as the area was pretty open.

Everyone keeps saying what Zimmerman should have done different, but let's be honest, what exactly did he do wrong that he probably had done many times in the past. He got out of his vehicle to see where this kid ran too. If the kid ran(which he obviously did) why didn't he just run to the house where he was staying? He sure was close enough.

This is the part that I simply do not get about all of this. When I was younger we had parents and neighbors that patrolled the neighborhood on foot, and at night it wasn't unusual to get confronted by an adult authority figure, but no one was ever so scared that we attacked anyone, especially an adult figure.

Kermit

90% of your post revolved around deflecting the blame away from Zimmerman
on the sole foundation of Martin NOT running from Zimmerman
Who gives a damn if Martin did not run from the guy approaching him
He did nothing wrong
Cant imagine Trayvons Mom ever saying.

"My boy would still be alive today if he would of just ran away from that man"

or

"why didnt my boy run away from him and home to us where he would be safe...
afterall he was faster then that man anyways"

[Kermit]

Does anyone else see something weird with Zimmerman calling non emergencies on 6 occasions and on each occasion he didn't want to give out his address?

Not really. He probably didn't want the police coming to his house in fear that woudl-be criminals in that area may notice where the cops were going and put 2 and 2 together as to where Zimmerman lived.

I know if I was calling police on a regular basis that I would not want them coming to my house either in fear of a possible retaliation from those whom I was suspicious of. They knew Zimmerman's name. It wasn't like he was giving fake names.

[Fidel_CashFlow]

this is one maniacal discussion that is starting to form here?

Its time I dig a bit deeper into this case b4 I comment any farther .

[Mac4Lyfe]

Kermit - Martin was visiting this house. I think it was his first time visiting the house (not sure). If you look at the complex, many of the houses look alike. Martin may not have known where the house exactly was. He may not have known which way to run. We'll never know.

What did Zimmerman do wrong? He followed, pursued, and confronted someone he thought was suspicious, ALL of which is against the rules of the watch.

How do we know Zimmerman was attacked in the first place? I think he made it up in order to explain why he shot this kid. How in the hell can you be attacked and there is ZERO blood, DNA on Martin? Is that even plausible?

and why didn't the neighborhood have better lighting? Why didn't they have camera's if there were a lot of burglaries? And, if Zimmerman knew that there were petty burglaries, why would he escalate an event to life/death. There wasn't a history of home invasions, bodily harm to people in the neighborhood.

How about this, you are walking alone on a dark night a block away from when you live/are staying and you are scared because a car is following you. How about you just run a block to your home? That was what we did when I was a kid. From an athletic stand point it was a no contest over which one of these 2 people had the upper hand in the speed department. Trayvon certainly wasn't cornered as the area was pretty open.

Everyone keeps saying what Zimmerman should have done different, but let's be honest, what exactly did he do wrong that he probably had done many times in the past. He got out of his vehicle to see where this kid ran too. If the kid ran(which he obviously did) why didn't he just run to the house where he was staying? He sure was close enough.

This is the part that I simply do not get about all of this. When I was younger we had parents and neighbors that patrolled the neighborhood on foot, and at night it wasn't unusual to get confronted by an adult authority figure, but no one was ever so scared that we attacked anyone, especially an adult figure.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Huh? He's the lead neighborhood watch. The criminals were not living in the complex and certainly wouldn't be in the area when and if the police would come by. When have you ever called the police and NEVER given out your address? That makes zero sense???

Why didn't Zimmerman volunteer for the Citizen on Patrol program? He was asked to join several times but he declined. I think he didn't volunteer because there is an extensive back ground check. I think there's something else in his background that we will soon find out. Watch...

Not really. He probably didn't want the police coming to his house in fear that woudl-be criminals in that area may notice where the cops were going and put 2 and 2 together as to where Zimmerman lived.

I know if I was calling police on a regular basis that I would not want them coming to my house either in fear of a possible retaliation from those whom I was suspicious of. They knew Zimmerman's name. It wasn't like he was giving fake names.

[Kermit]

Kermit

90% of your post revolved around deflecting the blame away from Zimmerman
on the sole foundation of Martin NOT running from Zimmerman
Who gives a damn if Martin did not run from the guy approaching him
He did nothing wrong
Cant imagine Trayvons Mom ever saying.

"My boy would still be alive today if he would of just ran away from that man"

or

"why didnt my boy run away from him and home to us where he would be safe...
afterall he was faster then that man anyways"

Well he would be alive if he just ran home. He did run and from where they showed where he was shot, he was only a block away from his father's girlfriend's house. Zimmerman wasn't a threat to the kid because the kid wasn't doing anything wrong.

Zimmerman even says on the phone with the 9-1-1 operator that Martin came up to Zimmerman's vehicle to "Check him out" and then Zimmerman says "Shit, he's running" and then gets out of his vehicle and the 9-1-1 operator asks Z if he is following him and he says "Yes" then they tell him "We don't need you to do that" and you can tell from the call that he immediately stops following the kid and Z talks to the operator for another minute about having the police call him so he can meet up with them.

What happens after that is anyone's guess.

[Kermit]

Huh? He's the lead neighborhood watch. The criminals were not living in the complex and certainly wouldn't be in the area when and if the police would come by. When have you ever called the police and NEVER given out your address? That makes zero sense???

Why didn't Zimmerman volunteer for the Citizen on Patrol program? He was asked to join several times but he declined. I think he didn't volunteer because there is an extensive back ground check. I think there's something else in his background that we will soon find out. Watch...

They had his name, so figuring out his address wouldn't be rocket science.

[Kermit]

Kermit - Martin was visiting this house. I think it was his first time visiting the house (not sure). If you look at the complex, many of the houses look alike. Martin may not have known where the house exactly was. He may not have known which way to run. We'll never know.

What did Zimmerman do wrong? He followed, pursued, and confronted someone he thought was suspicious, ALL of which is against the rules of the watch.

From the call it sounded like he followed for about 5 seconds before being instructed to "stop" and I have yet to actually hear any evidence that Zimmerman confronted anyone.

This is the gray area of who confronted and attacked who.

[Fidel_CashFlow]

Will say one thing though Kermit. I read a lot of your posts and you seem to keep your cool

and be rather knowledgeable and balanced on a lot of dif subjects.

So the fact that most of your posts seem to back Zimmerman.

I am going to try to redirect my own thoughts and gather more info on this case.

Maybe there is something Im missing. But to me... I dont see how the premise will ever change in this case.

Dont follow him and approach him ... none of this would of happened.


You know another way to look at what happened is this.

Trayvon is extremely unlucky in many factors.

He was put in a unavoidable(unless he ran away like a coward) confrontation ....

he beat great odds in the fact that he was able to outfight someone 11 years older then him .

Big difference when you are talking about a 17 year old beating up a capable 28 year old adult ??

And you know what makes all that even more tragic ?????

Only one person had a gun that night . Not Martin ... but Zimmerman.

If Zimmerman would of done what is normal and win whatever fight occurred that night NO 1 WOULD OF DIED....

because if Martin would of lost..

what would Martin of pulled out to shoot up at Zimmerman with as Martin is lying on the ground ???

A pack of unwrapped Skittles ? See the point ?

Brutal bad beats all around Martin took that night.... unfortunately it cost him his life.

[Kermit]

I am not trying to back anyone, I am just saying that neither person here seemed to be at fault until the actual confrontation happened.

Not calling anyone a coward. According to Z's 9-1-1 call, Martin did in fact run and Z had lost him, which was why he started to pursue him and was then told not to.

So what is the difference if Z runs 20 feet and stops or if he stays in/near his vehicle? You can tell that he didn't chase after Martin very long because he is on the phone the whole time and is never out of breath.

It is what happens in the next 2 minutes after the 9-1-1 phone call ends that is important, but unfortunately is all speculation.

Did Z continue to pursue? Or did Martin circle back around and attack Zimmerman? This is what we don't know and unfortunately there is only one witness.

[Kermit]

When this story first hit I was convinced that Zimmerman should go to jail for the rest of his life, but then when the pictures of Zimmerman's face and head surfaced, I didn't feel the same way about his guilt anymore. There is no doubt that Zimmerman was getting his ass kicked. The question is what led to his ass kicking? After he got off of the phone with 9-1-1 did he continue to chase after Martin and attack him, or did Martin circle back around and attack Zimmerman?

This is just one of those defining circumstances of wrong place, wrong time.

[Mac4Lyfe]

He didn't get back into the car from his own testimony... The wind sound on the phone got muffled a few seconds later maybe because he was facing a different direction or was in between the houses.

The GF was on the phone and heard TM say to Zimmerman, why are you following me and the phone goes dead. So obviously Zimmerman confronted him by getting out of the truck.

Once again, Zimmerman said that he got out of the car and approached TM. That's the definition of confronting...

From the call it sounded like he followed for about 5 seconds before being instructed to "stop" and I have yet to actually hear any evidence that Zimmerman confronted anyone.

This is the gray area of who confronted and attacked who.

[Kermit]

I think this "Girlfriend's" creditability went out the window when she was caught lying under oath.

I think this girl may be testifying today. This is a key witness for the prosecution.

[Mac4Lyfe]

What woman hasn't lied about their age???

The fact is that he was on the phone with her. The fact is that Zimmerman got out of his truck and confronted Martin.

The judge will instruct the jury that since she perjured herself that you can take what she testifies as you wish. Some will believe her, others won't. In the long run, it doesn't matter what she said. The main point is that he was on the phone walking to the house he was visiting, he was not out trying to rob, loot, burglarize people.

I think this "Girlfriend's" creditability went out the window when she was caught lying under oath.

I think this girl may be testifying today. This is a key witness for the prosecution.

[MoneyLineDawg]

Kermit- Does any of this ever happen if Zimmerman never gets out of his car in the first place? Nevermind, following someone when you were trained AND told not to by the operator.

We will never know who threw the first punch, but we know who's negligent and DUMB actions led to a confrontation in the first place.

[Kermit]

What woman hasn't lied about their age???

This isn't some 53 year old cougar trying to pass herself off as a 30 year old.

C'mon man.

[Mac4Lyfe]

She was 18 dating a 16 year old... That's statutory rape in some counties. Why would she lie and say that she was 16? I have no clue. What does that have to do with this case?

Young girls lie about their age probably much more than older Cougars.

This isn't some 53 year old cougar trying to pass herself off as a 30 year old.

C'mon man.

[itchypickle]

Forget watching the talk shows...listen in to the actual trial. It's shaping up as an easy acquittal so far. Even the former "Zimmerman was an executioner, hell bent on killing black kids" personalities are sitting back in their chairs stunned and have switched sides today while tracking the witnesses and evidence. The CNN panelists were in disbelief after seeing the Prosecution's witnesses basically gift wrap this thing for the defense.

DVR's the trial on HLN and have been going through it and its pretty much a stark difference from what the news has told us for a year. Watched MSNBC with Sharpton and company and they spent hours so far this week showing replays of Martin's dad wiping away a tear and the theoatrics of the opening statements...but haven't touched the following hours of trail where its played out. Go figure.

[PhillyFlyers]

So Zimmerman is the lead neighborhood watch dog and he's not supposed to be suspicious of a black guy walking through the neighborhood at night after the neighborhood was recently victimized by black guys?



I smell full acquittal.

[Kermit]

She was 18 dating a 16 year old... That's statutory rape in some counties. Why would she lie and say that she was 16? I have no clue. What does that have to do with this case?

Young girls lie about their age probably much more than older Cougars.

Well there was also the whole "My daughter Dee Dee didn't attend Trayvon's wake because she was in the hospital" The only problem was that she never was in the hospital.

Apparently they were using the whole "I'm only 16 so I am still a minor" angle so that this girl's name didn't get out in the public.

While this doesn't seem important to the case, it does damage this girl's credibility if she does in fact get called to testify.

[itchypickle]

Now they are falling back on the 'shock value' of the pictures of the dead body to sway the jury. They know the gig is up boys...acquittal assured at this point. Their case has fallen apart.

[PhillyFlyers]

Now they are falling back on the 'shock value' of the pictures of the dead body to sway the jury. They know the gig is up boys...acquittal assured at this point. Their case has fallen apart.

I would agree with you if the jury wasn't a group full of women.

You know how women get.

They sit on that twat all day and get all emotional at pictures and don't think with their brain because they're sitting on it.

[Kermit]

The prosecution should have never went for 2nd degree murder charges.

[itchypickle]

Look at the pics closely too. Trayvon's knees are soaked in relation to the rest of his pants - lining up with the logic that he was in deed mounted on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired.

Let's face it guys...throw out race and opinion's formed from media hype and just watch this thing pan out. Zimmerman walks. Evidence proves his side, witnesses discredit media narratives.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Firstly, the neighborhood was not victimized recently by black guys? Where are you getting that? The head of the home owner association testified that he saw no need for a neighborhood watch in the first place. The only person caught in a crime was a guy that lived in the complex.

So Zimmerman is suspicious? Of course he is suspicious mainly of black people. He made 5 other calls in the past year and they were all whenever a black person entered the neighborhood. NONE of which led to any arrests? He sees a black man, he gets suspicious. I get that.

BUT even though that is fukked up, he takes his suspicion to the point of following (against the rules of the watch) then he confronted a young kid (He identified TM as a kid earlier). So he basically takes the law into his own hands by illegally stopping, provoking a young kid passing by.

I really give the Martin family a lot of credit. They are pretty strong. If it was me I would hope Zimmerman would get off so that I could confront him at night and exact revenge for my son in the same way. My defense would be that he looked suspicious, so I confronted him.

So Zimmerman is the lead neighborhood watch dog and he's not supposed to be suspicious of a black guy walking through the neighborhood at night after the neighborhood was recently victimized by black guys?



I smell full acquittal.

[Mac4Lyfe]

He was laying face down with his hands on his chest when police arrived. His knees could have gotten soaked as he was trying to get up gasping for his last breath.

Why wasn't Zimmerman wet? His jacket, jeans all were dry? How do you explain it? I think this guy shot him in cold blood to be honest. I think he approached him and shot him immediately. This guy knew TM was an asshole that was going to get away with something. I think he manufactured his wounds (how do you get your head bloodied when there's no concrete)?

Look at the pics closely too. Trayvon's knees are soaked in relation to the rest of his pants - lining up with the logic that he was in deed mounted on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired.

Let's face it guys...throw out race and opinion's formed from media hype and just watch this thing pan out. Zimmerman walks. Evidence proves his side, witnesses discredit media narratives.

[Mac4Lyfe]

How do you never give out your address when you call the police... 6 times? Zimmerman is hiding something.

[itchypickle]

He was laying face down with his hands on his chest when police arrived. His knees could have gotten soaked as he was trying to get up gasping for his last breath.

Why wasn't Zimmerman wet? His jacket, jeans all were dry? How do you explain it? I think this guy shot him in cold blood to be honest. I think he approached him and shot him immediately. This guy knew TM was an asshole that was going to get away with something. I think he manufactured his wounds (how do you get your head bloodied when there's no concrete)?

The police reports have said all along the back of his jacket were soaked. (Zimmerman)

Look at the PICTURES from the scene and the statements all along man, there is a concrete walkways RIGHT THERE in the pics where he said the fight occurred and he was trying to get his head off the concrete into the grass as he was being struck. Are you really that hellbent on this for some reason? Just not open to facts or what?

[Kermit]

I really give the Martin family a lot of credit. They are pretty strong. If it was me I would hope Zimmerman would get off so that I could confront him at night and exact revenge for my son in the same way. My defense would be that he looked suspicious, so I confronted him.

Yeah, they are real strong. So strong that the mother had no control over her 17 year old son in both school and his home life and threw him out of her house. That was why he was staying with the father's girlfriend.

[Kermit]

He was laying face down with his hands on his chest when police arrived. His knees could have gotten soaked as he was trying to get up gasping for his last breath.

Why wasn't Zimmerman wet? His jacket, jeans all were dry? How do you explain it? I think this guy shot him in cold blood to be honest. I think he approached him and shot him immediately. This guy knew TM was an asshole that was going to get away with something. I think he manufactured his wounds (how do you get your head bloodied when there's no concrete)?

You do realize that there were witnesses that seen Trayvon on top of Zimmerman right?