[LeahMichele]

I want to ask the Christians/Religous People a serious question here. In my home state we have on the ballot this time the question of legalizing gay marriage 100%. This wont be equality like legal unions and shit like that, its full 100% marriage equality.

Now everyone I know is for this except of course, Christians/Religious people. They are always against it and they always justify their opposition by saying, My religion is against it, or Its against my religious beliefs.

Now my question to religious people is this

Why is it not enough for you to just follow your own religious beliefs ? Why do you feel the need to have laws that require other people to follow YOUR religious beliefs ?

Do you think that we should have laws that say Girls cant go to school or become educated ? because after all that is also the religious beliefs of some Muslim extremists.

Or should we only have laws that force people to follow YOUR religious beliefs ?

[Carseller4]

Religion has nothing to do with it.

I want everyone to follow the same rules, Gays included.

Gays have the same right to marriage as anyone else.

Equal rights for all, special rights for none.

I might love the twins down the street, but no one is trying to give me the special right to marry them both.

[wantitall4moi]

This nation was founded and settled under the pretense of religious freedom, you could practice whatever religion you wanted, albeit back then 99% of them in Europe were Abrahamic.

It was also a nation founded 'under God', the God of Abraham. The one in the Christian Bible, the Quran, and the Jewish Bible. In all those marriage is defined as a union between a man and a women, predominantly to procreate and fill the earth with more bodies for souls to inhabit. The sanctity of marriage is/was one of the last threads left that connected us with our original beliefs.

Basically anyone who claims to believe in God shouldnt believe in any type of marriage, especially if they perform it in a church between anyone but a man and a woman.

The catch words, 'tolerance' and 'acceptance' are pretty much Satan's words to get people to rationalize and compromise their ideals. If people and the world adhered more to these original laws we wouldnt be in the cesspool we are in.

If Christians really wanted to force their beliefs on other people as you put it, they would push to make adultery (any sex outside of marriage) illegal (like it used to be), or make having children out of wedlock a felony. How much better would this country be if there werent a bunch of whores running around penetrating everything in sight and having 10 kids by 8 guys or 25 kids by 10 women? How much money would we save in welfare, and social security and medical benefits?

So it goes way beyond simply gay marriage, marriage is. like I said the last domino to fall, once that falls then its all over.

[LeahMichele]

No Christians dont push to make Adultery Illegal because most of them do it.

[chilidog]

Meh, since Christians have to support incest, it makes no sense to me why they have a problem with homosexuality.

[BetterBizness]

Only Protestants and some uninformed everyone else Christian believe in Adam and Eve ... the rest of Christianity, including the Catholics believe in Evolution just fine.

[chilidog]

Only Protestants and some uninformed everyone else Christian believe in Adam and Eve ... the rest of Christianity, including the Catholics believe in Evolution just fine.

There is only one Christian Bible. There is only one Word of God. And in his book, he created Adam, Eve, and initially their 3 sons.

Now, how could Catholics not believe in the Word of God? Are they calling God a liar? If that's the case, then why believe in him at all? You can't pick and choose what you believe in a religion - you either believe or you don't.

[shari91]

There is only one Christian Bible. There is only one Word of God. And in his book, he created Adam, Eve, and initially their 3 sons.

Asking how people came about when it was just Adam, Eve and Cain and Seth (Abel had already been offed by Cain before anyone else showed up in the Bible) is what got me smacked quite hard in the back of the head in grade 11 at a Catholic school by a wanker of a teacher. Either incest occurred or the story is wacked.

Now, how could Catholics not believe in the Word of God? Are they calling God a liar? If that's the case, then why believe in him at all? You can't pick and choose what you believe in a religion - you either believe or you don't.

And this is why I now only show up to Church these days for Easter, Christmas and ceremonies. I can't stand hypocrites and I agree that we shouldn't pick and choose. Having sex before marriage alone has vetoed me from Catholicism as I'm sure it would for many others who claim to be upstanding Christians.

[pronk]

Do you support a marriage between man and 2 women or between man and horse or a monkey too?

[RogueScholar]

It's basic sociology, really. Religions have to keep people actively engaged or risk losing them to apathy and boredom. The easiest way to combat that is to give people a cause to fight for, which is why Holy Wars have always been justified by religious hierarchies.

Christian conservatives are just participating in the Holy War du jour when they organize to impose their religious beliefs on others, and most of them do this completely unwittingly. It's easier just to do what a person in authority tells you to do than to think for yourself, and that's a phenomenon that's been holding humanity back since prehistory. The vast majority of people are weak, and they want to feel powerful, so they attach themselves to people who project authority or promise to make them more powerful.

We see it on SBR, we see it in politics, we see it in our own families. As a gay man I've learned not to take it too personal, most of them are good people who just gave up on themselves and can't admit it. We all have the ability to be powerful, to command our own destiny, but it's exhausting to think for yourself and constantly argue against the most popularly held beliefs people hold, which are almost always in error. It's even harder for them as the social sciences progress so rapidly and give amazingly useful discoveries about human nature to those who have the most to gain from manipulating it.

[chilidog]

Asking how people came about when it was just Adam, Eve and Cain and Seth (Abel had already been offed by Cain before anyone else showed up in the Bible) is what got me smacked quite hard in the back of the head in grade 11 at a Catholic school by a wanker of a teacher. Either incest occurred or the story is wacked.

And this is why I now only show up to Church these days for Easter, Christmas and ceremonies. I can't stand hypocrites and I agree that we shouldn't pick and choose. Having sex before marriage alone has vetoed me from Catholicism as I'm sure it would for many others who claim to be upstanding Christians.

One dilemma that I am now facing is with my 1.5 year old son. Obviously, he's far too young to know anything, but I live in a predominantly Catholic country, and I know the expected thing is for me to raise him in the Church. That's rather hard for me to do, considering my beliefs.

[CarpeDime]

Asking how people came about when it was just Adam, Eve and Cain and Seth (Abel had already been offed by Cain before anyone else showed up in the Bible) is what got me smacked quite hard in the back of the head in grade 11 at a Catholic school by a wanker of a teacher. Either incest occurred or the story is wacked.



And this is why I now only show up to Church these days for Easter, Christmas and ceremonies. I can't stand hypocrites and I agree that we shouldn't pick and choose. Having sex before marriage alone has vetoed me from Catholicism as I'm sure it would for many others who claim to be upstanding Christians.

Meh, since Christians have to support incest, it makes no sense to me why they have a problem with homosexuality.

Christians support incest WHEN THERE ARE ONLY 2 OR 3 OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, not when there are 8 fukin billion!

I mean yeah, if the only people in the world were me, my mom and my sister, well then yeah, I'd look at them and be like, hey guys......guess what we're gonna do!!! And they'd start running away and screaming and I'd run after them and I'd be like "no no no no NO NO NO NO DON'T YOU BE RUNNING AWAY FROM ME! We are gonna DO THIS, we are the ONLY THREE PEOPLE LEFT IN THE WORLD FOR CHRISSAKE! Mommy, GET OVER HERE! I know you are still getting your period! Don't run away from me, LET'S DO THIS!"

But, that would be the case if there were only 3 people in the world, like when there was just Eve and her kids.

But if there are 8 billion people in the world??? In that case incest is sick and wrong and if you do it YOU ARE FUKIN SICK IN THE HEAD and your not Christian and your going to hell

[High3rEl3m3nt]

Is it just Christians? Blacks are overwhelmingly against gay marriage and hispanics have shown that they are too. Are most blacks and hispanics Christians? Or are most cultures against gays? It seems as though gay is only tolerated in European countries.

[CallMeChip]

Gay people are like anyone else. They're not hurting anyone so why treat them like shit?

[stikymess]

HEY! This is a gambling forum, please include a pick with your views!

[shari91]

One dilemma that I am now facing is with my 1.5 year old son. Obviously, he's far too young to know anything, but I live in a predominantly Catholic country, and I know the expected thing is for me to raise him in the Church. That's rather hard for me to do, considering my beliefs.

I'm facing the same thing. My son is 3 now and funnily enough because he happens to have one of the names I mentioned in my post many people take that as my being a hardcore Christian. (His dad didn't have a clue the name was in the Bible when he chose it). I was raised Catholic, his father's side of the family are kind of practicing Catholics... enough for both sides of our families to expect the Christening, Confirmation, etc. I keep coming up with some great excuses for putting his Christening off but it's getting a bit silly now. And then the talk goes to Catholic schools. And Sunday School and whatever else. But none of this is because of a strict adherence to what Catholicism stands for. It's all purely for tradition. Which is also why I schlepp my ass to a Midnight Mass every year, a few times alone, regardless of what country I'm in or whether I can even understand the language. So I actually do understand that part. It reminds me of my family who weren't hardcore Catholics either but that tradition was there. But for his father and I to raise him as a Catholic when we're obviously not poster childs for many of the tenets of the religion truly seems crazy to me.

[chilidog]

I'm facing the same thing. My son is 3 now and funnily enough because he happens to have one of the names I mentioned in my post many people take that as my being a hardcore Christian. (His dad didn't have a clue the name was in the Bible when he chose it). I was raised Catholic, his father's side of the family are kind of practicing Catholics... enough for both sides of our families to expect the Christening, Confirmation, etc. I keep coming up with some great excuses for putting his Christening off but it's getting a bit silly now. And then the talk goes to Catholic schools. And Sunday School and whatever else. But none of this is because of a strict adherence to what Catholicism stands for. It's all purely for tradition. Which is also why I schlepp my ass to a Midnight Mass every year, a few times alone, regardless of what country I'm in or whether I can even understand the language. So I actually do understand that part. It reminds me of my family who weren't hardcore Catholics either but that tradition was there. But for his father and I to raise him as a Catholic when we're obviously not poster childs for many of the tenets of the religion truly seems crazy to me.

Heh, my son's name is Noah (really biblical name!), and Costa Rica is hardcore Catholic. It's just expected to be Catholic. I would never want him to be made fun of for being the weird one that doesn't believe in religion. I already have enough people down here praying for me to find God one day, lol, I don't want my kid having to defend my beliefs.

[chilidog]

Loshack, Imma buy you a drink one day when I randomly run into you. Granted, I don't go to Puchos, but the wife takes me Tin Jo every once in awhile, so maybe our paths will cross at some point.

Christians support incest WHEN THERE ARE ONLY 2 OR 3 OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, not when there are 8 fukin billion!

I mean yeah, if the only people in the world were me, my mom and my sister, well then yeah, I'd look at them and be like, hey guys......guess what we're gonna do!!! And they'd start running away and screaming and I'd run after them and I'd be like "no no no no NO NO NO NO DON'T YOU BE RUNNING AWAY FROM ME! We are gonna DO THIS, we are the ONLY THREE PEOPLE LEFT IN THE WORLD FOR CHRISSAKE! Mommy, GET OVER HERE! I know you are still getting your period! Don't run away from me, LET'S DO THIS!"

But, that would be the case if there were only 3 people in the world, like when there was just Eve and her kids.

But if there are 8 billion people in the world??? In that case incest is sick and wrong and if you do it YOU ARE FUKIN SICK IN THE HEAD and your not Christian and your going to hell

[wantitall4moi]

Adam and Eve had a lot more than 3 sons, they also had daughters. How do you think the population grew?

[chilidog]

Adam and Eve had a lot more than 3 sons, they also had daughters. How do you think the population grew?

Indeed, they did. But some incest still had to happen. Eve didn't pump out thousands of babies.

[nosniboR11]

gays will end up in hell if they do not repent for those sins, period

[CarpeDime]

gays will end up in hell if they do not repent for those sins, period

yes

what happens in hell, and how long does it last?

[chilidog]

yes

what happens in hell, and how long does it last?

[flocko76]

I claim to be a christian but I support gay marriage as part of my multi-faceted economic stimulus package. More marriages equals more money spent on weddings.

[swordsandtequila]

It's basic sociology, really. Religions have to keep people actively engaged or risk losing them to apathy and boredom. The easiest way to combat that is to give people a cause to fight for, which is why Holy Wars have always been justified by religious hierarchies.

Christian conservatives are just participating in the Holy War du jour when they organize to impose their religious beliefs on others, and most of them do this completely unwittingly. It's easier just to do what a person in authority tells you to do than to think for yourself, and that's a phenomenon that's been holding humanity back since prehistory. The vast majority of people are weak, and they want to feel powerful, so they attach themselves to people who project authority or promise to make them more powerful.

We see it on SBR, we see it in politics, we see it in our own families. As a gay man I've learned not to take it too personal, most of them are good people who just gave up on themselves and can't admit it. We all have the ability to be powerful, to command our own destiny, but it's exhausting to think for yourself and constantly argue against the most popularly held beliefs people hold, which are almost always in error. It's even harder for them as the social sciences progress so rapidly and give amazingly useful discoveries about human nature to those who have the most to gain from manipulating it.

Hit the nail on the head. Hypocrisy run amok.

[CarpeDime]

I want everyone to follow the same rules, Gays included.

Gays have the same right to marriage as anyone else.

Equal rights for all, special rights for none.

well by that logic, the people asking for gay marriage aren't asking for special rights at all

if everyone has equal rights now because gay people are free to marry members of the opposite sex, then if gay marriage were legalized, everyone would still have equal rights because straight people would also be free to marry members of the same sex

[billyloco]

Very disturbing thread, and some very disturbed individuals IN HERE headed for HELL!!!

[chilidog]

Very disturbing thread, and some very disturbed individuals IN HERE headed for HELL!!!

LOL, how cute. You actually believe that there's a place that people will burn and suffer for eternity, because they did not tell your God how awesome he is, and how weak you are, and how much you need him. Oh yes, what a loving God you have. Where do I sign up?

[CallMeChip]

gays will end up in hell if they do not repent for those sins, period

That's funny, any Christian who does anything opposite of scripture goes to hell too. I bet you beat off to horse porn. Hell. I bet you have impure thoughts. Hell. I bet you had sex before marriage. Hell. (with a dude no less, oh the irony) Get the picture? Btw nice avatar. Romney,Ryan: America's Comeshot Team.

[Jonah]

Anyone who wishes or condemns anyone to hell in my opinion is not a good Christian.

Shari, You have an interesting dilemma. Don't raise your son with a Faith you don't believe in yourself. Spells disaster. Whatever religion you are considering, read their very best. Not propaganda, but their best. A particular religion gets to define what it is, not others, so read their doctrines, dogmas. etc. Meet some real practitioners of the religion and see if there is any tree-bearing fruit there. Getting a little rare these days ain't it... Take your time, but give it a quick boot just the same when you are ready.

Marriage as ordained by God and defined by the predominant religion in this country is between a man and a woman. That is what marriage is. You don't call a duck a cow...If our country believes that gays are being discriminated in any way, we can make sure that does not happen via civil unions w/same consequences if they dissolve as well, but to redefine what marriage is is not the way to go about this.

Now our society has always seen an inherent gain when a man and woman marry...and have kids, thus the tax breaks. Now a gay couple used to not be able to have a kid on their own(still can't really). Damn nature, or God or whatever you want to call it.
Does our society still believe we have something to gain by gays and lesbians pledging their eternal love to each other. Do we see a gain in them joining the 7 year que for adopting a newborn so that Sally can have two daddies? or Billy having two mommies? Or use modern society to garner a child?

If so, then let's give them the same tax breaks etc!

But again it is a redefining of marriage that the gay community is asking for. It is their community who have encroached on the beliefs of others, they have picked this fight and to put it simply: it is downright offensive.

[tto827]

LOL, how cute. You actually believe that there's a place that people will burn and suffer for eternity, because they did not tell your God how awesome he is, and how weak you are, and how much you need him. Oh yes, what a loving God you have. Where do I sign up?

That's a little rough, but I have to agree with you. I just cannot convince myself to believe in a higher being, of all the things we have discovered in this world, we still haven't found that. If you weren't religious and had never heard of religion, and I told you there was a ghost who oversaw things, and that your soul goes somewhere, you'd lock me up in the nuthouse.

[chipper]

As part of the Christian left I FULLY support marriage equality AND a woman's right to choose. So not every Christian can be painted with a conservative, right wing brush.

[tad0matic]

this is one sharp dikcsuckr here. can't argue with someone who is obviously smarter than you but... ewwwww you put what in your mouth for fun????
LOL I'd like to know what the meaning of your avatar is. Beaver is nasty and dangerous? give us lower life forms some insight please.

It's basic sociology, really. Religions have to keep people actively engaged or risk losing them to apathy and boredom. The easiest way to combat that is to give people a cause to fight for, which is why Holy Wars have always been justified by religious hierarchies.

Christian conservatives are just participating in the Holy War du jour when they organize to impose their religious beliefs on others, and most of them do this completely unwittingly. It's easier just to do what a person in authority tells you to do than to think for yourself, and that's a phenomenon that's been holding humanity back since prehistory. The vast majority of people are weak, and they want to feel powerful, so they attach themselves to people who project authority or promise to make them more powerful.

We see it on SBR, we see it in politics, we see it in our own families. As a gay man I've learned not to take it too personal, most of them are good people who just gave up on themselves and can't admit it. We all have the ability to be powerful, to command our own destiny, but it's exhausting to think for yourself and constantly argue against the most popularly held beliefs people hold, which are almost always in error. It's even harder for them as the social sciences progress so rapidly and give amazingly useful discoveries about human nature to those who have the most to gain from manipulating it.

[CallMeChip]

Anyone who wishes or condemns anyone to hell in my opinion is not a good Christian.

Shari, You have an interesting dilemma. Don't raise your son with a Faith you don't believe in yourself. Spells disaster. Whatever religion you are considering, read their very best. Not propaganda, but their best. A particular religion gets to define what it is, not others, so read their doctrines, dogmas. etc. Meet some real practitioners of the religion and see if there is any tree-bearing fruit there. Getting a little rare these days ain't it... Take your time, but give it a quick boot just the same when you are ready.

Marriage as ordained by God and defined by the predominant religion in this country is between a man and a woman. That is what marriage is. You don't call a duck a cow...If our country believes that gays are being discriminated in any way, we can make sure that does not happen via civil unions w/same consequences if they dissolve as well, but to redefine what marriage is is not the way to go about this.

Now our society has always seen an inherent gain when a man and woman marry...and have kids, thus the tax breaks. Now a gay couple used to not be able to have a kid on their own(still can't really). Damn nature, or God or whatever you want to call it.
Does our society still believe we have something to gain by gays and lesbians pledging their eternal love to each other. Do we see a gain in them joining the 7 year que for adopting a newborn so that Sally can have two daddies? or Billy having two mommies? Or use modern society to garner a child?

If so, then let's give them the same tax breaks etc!

But again it is a redefining of marriage that the gay community is asking for. It is their community who have encroached on the beliefs of others, they have picked this fight and to put it simply: it is downright offensive.

If the US government terms the union of two people as marriage, then the term "marriage" loses all religious meaning in the eyes of that government due to separation of church and state. If religious individuals are so fervently against letting gays get married they should lobby Congress to change the term to "union" for everyone, therefore losing it's religious meaning to those denominations and becoming what it should be, a legal joining of two individuals in the eyes of the government. That simple.

With the addition of Maryland and Maine that will make eight gay marriage legal states. Times are changing and those who oppose are forming a shrinking majority and soon to be minority. Bible beaters need to concede that the joining of two people is not their creation which they can pass judgment on. Marriage, according to government, has nothing to do with a man and a woman, but with two people, period. Marriage according to the Bible and God or whatever you believe is a religious principle not a government one. It's probably a poor choice that government uses the word marriage, which confuses people, but they are starting to overturn it's religious meaning under government jurisdiction, as they should.

[tatommack]

Just dont get how they say America the free but we can't smoke pot or gamble