[greenhippo]

No one who has posted in this thread has ever know anyone personally, who has been shot down on cold blood. So I dont think any of your opinions are valid.
When your close friends or Mother are shot in the same manner, then you have legitimate grounds to come into a thread like this & talk about how your Mother was in the wrong place & the wrong time, thus defending the crazy man who killed her.
I doubt you would be defending the Stand Your Ground law if a friend or family member were shot by a gun touting red neck.
I guaruntee you would not be in a forum defending this if YOU were the victim.

lets be realistic when posting our opinions in public & not just trying to instigate a fight with our words.
I find it hard to believe that any rational gambler truly believes we, as a society should allow this behavior to go unpunished.

Well yes, if I were the victim I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have the means to get on here and discuss it.

[sharpcat]

I hope there is more to it than that Sharp, that is one pathetic attempt at getting a guy on trial if they're basing it on hearsay and assumptions.

I would sure hope so also because so far it appears that this has all been done to please the lynch mob and whether found guilty or not guilty George Zimmerman will forever have a 2nd degree murder charge on his name.

All of those crying for his head and pressuring prosecution to charge this man despite the fact that they originally felt they had no reason to are the same ones who would be crying the blues if they were wrongfully charged with murder.

[sharpcat]

No one who has posted in this thread has ever know anyone personally, who has been shot down on cold blood. So I dont think any of your opinions are valid.
When your close friends or Mother are shot in the same manner, then you have legitimate grounds to come into a thread like this & talk about how your Mother was in the wrong place & the wrong time, thus defending the crazy man who killed her.
I doubt you would be defending the Stand Your Ground law if a friend or family member were shot by a gun touting red neck.
I guaruntee you would not be in a forum defending this if YOU were the victim.

lets be realistic when posting our opinions in public & not just trying to instigate a fight with our words.
I find it hard to believe that any rational gambler truly believes we, as a society should allow this behavior to go unpunished.

I personally have had a secondary family member who was stabbed to death and the suspect has not been charged within the last year and also have a friend who is wrongfully being charged with stabbing a man at a bar that he could not have been at because he was with me elsewhere when the stabbing occurred within the last year.

I know what it is like to lose someone to murder but I also will stand up for the rights of myself and every citizen of this country to not be charged with a crime unless their is solid evidence to prove that the crime was committed not because an agenda driven lynch mob is calling for your head.

[Jayvegas420]

Well yes, if I were the victim I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have the means to get on here and discuss it.

Well yes.
That WAS my point.

[Jayvegas420]

I personally have had a secondary family member who was stabbed to death and the suspect has not been charged within the last year and also have a friend who is wrongfully being charged with stabbing a man at a bar that he could not have been at because he was with me elsewhere when the stabbing occurred within the last year.

I know what it is like to lose someone to murder but I also will stand up for the rights of myself and every citizen of this country to not be charged with a crime unless their is solid evidence to prove that the crime was committed.

And I dont really know how to respond to this absurdity.
You are undoubtedly one of the stupid"est" posters I have encountered here.
Plus you are a proven liar & full of shit.
You have never lost anyone to murder & if you had you would not be defending the murderer. You do not have the nobility or convictions to take this position.
Your examples have nothing to do with we are talking about. Zimmerman was there & he killed someone. The fact that in spite of all the media attention this case has garnered, you still are unclear as to what happened only further proves what your worthless opinion counts for.
Youre mentally challenged & should stop posting for the rest of the month. Trust me, no one will miss your perpetually incorrect picks anyway.

[The Inevitable]

I understand your viewpoint of the situation, but not every, single, response defending Martin has to point out skittles and iced tea. It has ZERO to do with anything, yet it keeps being regurgitated endlessly in a failed attempt at making it seem like skittles = playful little boy. You do your side the biggest disservice by endlessly throwing that out there.

The Skittles response is to stress the fact that he was unarmed.

And god help us if people are starting to see this tragedy in terms of "sides."

[iQon]

If they're so worthless, then why call them? You call 911 for help. They're trained and more qualified to offer advice in that situation than Zimmerman ever would be. He was advised to leave the kid alone, he should have done that. People will use this law as a crutch and end up being the one's that are dead. You don't know who's carrying in this country.

[sharpcat]

And I dont really know how to respond to this absurdity.
You are undoubtedly one of the stupid"est" posters I have encountered here.
Plus you are a proven liar & full of shit.
You have never lost anyone to murder & if you had you would not be defending the murderer. You do not have the nobility or convictions to take this position.
Your examples have nothing to do with we are talking about. Zimmerman was there & he killed someone. The fact that in spite of all the media attention this case has garnered, you still are unclear as to what happened only further proves what your worthless opinion counts for.
Youre mentally challenged & should stop posting for the rest of the month. Trust me, no one will miss your perpetually incorrect picks anyway.

Great job at discrediting my arguments by resorting to insults and name calling, you sound like a really smart person right now

[Jayvegas420]

Great job at discrediting my arguments by resorting to insults and name calling, you sound like a really smart person right now

I dont read a rebuttal in here anywhere?
Just a overly sensitive red neck asking me, in a round about way to leave him alone.
Dont be such a baby.

[greenhippo]

The Skittles response is to stress the fact that he was unarmed.

And god help us if people are starting to see this tragedy in terms of "sides."

It's an unquestionable truth that Martin was unarmed, no one at any point ever said or even hinted that Martin had any kind of weapon on him. Stressing a point that was never in question? That to me seems like you're already having to grasp at straws to make an argument that isn't even there.

[Jayvegas420]

It's an unquestionable truth that Martin was unarmed, no one at any point ever said or even hinted that Martin had any kind of weapon on him. Stressing a point that was never in question? That to me seems like you're already having to grasp at straws to make an argument that isn't even there.

If you dont contest that he was unarmed then the next logical question would be.....
What is the crux of your argument?

[stevenash]

Florida prosecutors seeking to convict a neighborhood watch volunteer of murder in the shooting death of an unarmed black teenager may be hamstrung by the state’s own laws in a case defense lawyers said will also hinge on physical evidence and emergency call recordings.

George Zimmerman shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, on Feb. 26 in Sanford, a central-Florida town of 54,000 people north of Orlando. Zimmerman, 28, told authorities in the aftermath that he shot Martin in self-defense, a potent claim in a state with a law allowing the use of force instead of retreat by citizens who fear for their life.

Florida’s Stand Your Ground law enables individuals who feel threatened in a public place to “meet force with force,” rather than back away. The law prevented police from arresting Zimmerman in February, officials said at the time, and may play a role in derailing any conviction, according to several Florida defense lawyers.

Bruce Fleischer, a veteran criminal defense attorney in Miami, said what Zimmerman told the 911 dispatcher and what he said in his first statement to police will be key to his case. Any evidence showing he believed “his life was in danger” will be central to a self-defense claim.

“The argument is going to be, ‘What did he believe and what did he perceive?”’ said Fleischer, who has defended dozens of people accused of murder and manslaughter and has argued self-defense in the past. That assertion by Zimmerman, he said, is the biggest obstacle faced by the prosecution.

“It’s a recognized defense under the law, and Stand Your Ground has enhanced it,” he said.

Plead Not Guilty

The decision to charge Zimmerman by Florida State Attorney Angela Corey was announced yesterday in Jacksonville. Lawyers for Zimmerman, who remains in protective custody in Seminole County, said he will plead not guilty. He faces as long as life in prison if convicted. At an initial hearing today, a judge ruled sufficient evidence existed to justify the murder charge, and set May 29 as a date for Zimmerman’s arraignment.

Zimmerman, whose father is white and mother Hispanic, told police Martin attacked him on a sidewalk near his home, and that he shot Martin after first being punched in the nose and having his head slammed into the ground, officials said.
Zimmerman, who said he was driving to a grocery store when he saw Martin walking through the gated community, told authorities he followed the teenager on foot and called the police to report a suspicious person. A dispatcher told Zimmerman to stop following Martin, and to wait for police.

Brian Tannebaum, a veteran defense attorney in Miami, said he was surprised by the second-degree murder charge, which he said prosecutors may have a harder time proving than if they had charged Zimmerman with manslaughter.

‘Tough Time’

“I think the jury is going to have a tough time with the idea that George Zimmerman murdered this kid,” he said. “The word murder takes away any possibility that it was an accident.”

Zimmerman is charged with second degree murder for killing Martin in “an act imminently dangerous to another, and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life,” according to the charging document. The requirement of “depraved mind” is what, to a large extent, separates the charge from manslaughter, which for a teenager like Martin carried a maximum 30-year term, Tannebaum said.

If convicted of second degree murder, Zimmerman faces a mandatory minimum prison sentence of 25 years under Florida’s 10/20/Life law that provides for enhanced penalties for crimes committed using firearms, Tannebaum said.

‘Intentional Killing’

“When you look at manslaughter, you’re talking about something that wasn’t excusable or justifiable and resulted in death,” said the lawyer, the immediate past president of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. “By charging this as second-degree murder, the state is saying ‘We don’t think this is an act of negligence. We think this was an intentional killing.”’

Zimmerman told police he had been walking back to his SUV when Martin approached from behind and asked whether he had a problem. Zimmerman said no. Martin said, “Well, you do now” and punched Zimmerman in the nose, Zimmerman claimed, according to authorities.

He told officers he fell and that Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. A police report stated Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of the head.

Jury Question

David Waksman, a criminal lawyer who worked as a state prosecutor in Miami for 35 years, and served as a police officer in New York for six, said jurors in a second-degree murder case are asked to decide whether the killing was “evil, hateful or spiteful.”

“Second degree tends to be a hard charge to make,” he said. “Sometimes first degree can be easier, depending on the evidence.”

Corey declined to convene a grand jury, which is required to seek an indictment for first-degree murder, a charge that generally requires evidence of premeditation or planning and may bring a sentence of death in Florida.

Zimmerman will have two separate chances to try to prove that he shot in self-defense, Waksman said. First, under the Stand Your Ground law, he can ask a judge to throw out the case before it ever reaches a jury. If the judge allows the case to go to trial, Zimmerman’s attorneys can assert self-defense again at trial.

Bloody Nose

“This guy’s going to have a strong Stand Your Ground defense,” Waksman said, adding that defense lawyers need only prove that he was in fear of injury or death at the time of the shooting. “We’ll have to see what the evidence is. It appears the firefighter saw a bloody nose, so there’s some evidence of a confrontation. That’s going to be important evidence for him.”

Corey said she would attack Stand Your Ground as a defense.

“We have to have a reasonable certainty of conviction before we file charges,” she said.
Waksman predicted the defense would ask for a change of venue for the case from Seminole County, which includes Sanford, though he doubted there is a jurisdiction in Florida that hasn’t been saturated with media coverage of the case.
“It’s like Casey Anthony,” he said, referring to the case of an Orlando mother acquitted of killing her 2-year-old daughter. Everyone knows this case.”

Jimmy della Fera, another Miami defense attorney, agreed the 911 tapes may turn the case against Zimmerman.
“When the 911 dispatcher was speaking to him and told him ’We don’t need you to follow him,’ I think that’s going to be a huge problem for him,” he said. Della Fera added the case may also hinge on an analysis of the tapes of calls neighbors made to 911 in which screaming is heard in the background.

Screaming

“It’s a real problem for the defense if the screaming in the background turns out to be Trayvon,” he said.
Zimmerman’s own history may make any argument of self- defense harder for a jury to believe, he added.
“You had this guy Zimmerman, a cop wannabe and yeah, he may have had a bloody nose, but I think he got in way over his head and he overreacted,” the lawyer said. “If he doesn’t have a gun, does Zimmerman even put himself in that situation? I don’t think so.”

H.T. Smith, a Miami criminal defense attorney for 39 years and a former vice president of the Miami-Dade chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, said he wasn’t surprised by the decision to charge Zimmerman with second-degree murder.

‘Hotblooded’ Crime

“Second degree murder is a crime that is hotblooded and committed with a depraved mind,” said Smith, who teaches trial strategy at the Florida International University law school. “If in fact the prosecutor believed she had evidence that this shooting was not justified based on the immunity of Stand Your Ground or self-defense, then it was second-degree murder.”

He said the key to the case will be the forensic evidence.

“We are going to find out that the prosecution has one or more pieces of physical evidence that contradicts Zimmerman’s story,” Smith predicted. “I don’t believe the prosecutor would rest the prosecution and proving second-degree murder on witness testimony. People are paying attention to these eye witnesses, but that’s not what this case is going to turn on. This case is going to turn on forensic evidence.”

David S. Markus, a criminal defense attorney for the past 25 years who also spent five as a prosecutor in Miami, said the defense will have to mitigate the issue of race, given protests triggered in Florida and nationally by the killing of an unarmed black teenager, and the effect that may have on any jury.

“In order to prevail, the defense attorney is going to take race out of the case and make it about the law,” he said.
Markus added that he isn’t convinced Zimmerman has a very good case for immunity under the Stand Your Ground law, or on a claim of self-defense in general.

“He injected himself into a situation he didn’t need to be in,” the lawyer said. “And that situation spiraled out of control and resulted in a death.”

[stevenash]

If you dont contest that he was unarmed then the next logical question would be.....
What is the crux of your argument?

Martin wasn't very bright either.
He went all thug on Zimmerman, told him "you got a problem?" Zimmerman said "no", Martin said "you do now", and started beating on him.
If this gets to a trial, this will come out, there goes your murder charge out the window, Martin gets a walk, then let the race riots begin.

[William Walters]

call em im not doing anything but i think we all know shits going to kickoff if zimmerman walks...

If true..........the racial profiling is just

[stevenash]

Looking forward to the race riots myself, from my sofa, on the big screen.

[brooks85]

cant wait


Audio paints a clear picture of what happened at that moment or more importantly what scenarios didn't happen.

[sharpcat]

Looking forward to the race riots myself, from my sofa, on the big screen.

Hopefully the race riots hold off long enough to get the stand your ground law removed or else Al and Jesse are going to have their hands bloody with thousands of cases.

[sharpcat]

cant wait
Audio paints a clear picture of what happened at that moment or more importantly what scenarios didn't happen.

Audio is pretty much useless in court unless some expert witness can prove beyond a doubt that the screams on the tape are coming from Trayvon and not Zimmerman. A privately hired expert to conclude that there is a 50% chance that the screams are from Zimmerman is far from proving beyond doubt and Trayvons mama saying "oh yes dats my baby" is even further from proving beyond doubt.

[stevenash]

I can see a whole lot of Al and Jesse supporters getting Trayvon'ed myself if they declare game on.

Just sayin'

Bring it fellas.

[brooks85]

Audio is pretty much useless in court unless some expert witness can prove beyond a doubt that the screams on the tape are coming from Trayvon and not Zimmerman. A privately hired expert to conclude that there is a 50% chance that the screams are from Zimmerman is far from proving beyond doubt and Trayvons mama saying "oh yes dats my baby" is even further from proving beyond doubt.

You keep saying 50% chance, the screams were not from zimmerman.

So far two experts using software they use to convict people in europe have said the screams are not Zimmerman and these are not their personal opinions. This is an audio file ran through unbiased software. Even the lady filing the police report said martin. Now to the logical person its obvious what happened but legally all that is a different story.

[mynameismud]

nancy grace is going to pound this guy every night on live tv. shes a fukking lawyer and never stands by "innocent until proven guilty" im not saying zimmerman is innocent or guilty, i dont know enough of the facts to, but she ruins lives by defacing suspects before they are convicted of anything.

[stevenash]

nancy grace is going to pound this guy every night on live tv. shes a fukking lawyer and never stands by "innocent until proven guilty" im not saying zimmerman is innocent or guilty, i dont know enough of the facts to, but she ruins lives by defacing suspects before they are convicted of anything.

Both of them are stupid fuks.
Martin decided to go thug on Zimm when he said to him "you got a problem now" then started wailing on Martin.
Hell, if some hoodie thug started beating on me, and I was carrying, I'd shoot the savage too.

[brooks85]

and you should be held guilty in that exact situation.

Someone(martin) was screaming help for enough time to go by that is obvious what zimmerman was doing. He was pointing a gun at someone, so he was no longer in danger.

Now legally in florida he might get away with that because of this absurd law but getting your ass beat after you just chased some kid, so a situation you started, is not justification to kill him after you diffused the situation by pulling a gun and he is pleading for his life.

It would be different if all you heard was a gun shot but no, someone was screaming for their life and Zimmerman was the one who shot them.

[greenhippo]

If you dont contest that he was unarmed then the next logical question would be.....
What is the crux of your argument?

When was I ever making an argument?

Wondering why someone is trying to make a point that is neither valid or important to the investigation is not considered making an argument.

[sharpcat]

You keep saying 50% chance, the screams were not from zimmerman.

So far two experts using software they use to convict people in europe have said the screams are not Zimmerman and these are not their personal opinions. This is an audio file ran through unbiased software. Even the lady filing the police report said martin. Now to the logical person its obvious what happened but legally all that is a different story.

You are misconstruing facts that come from privately hired analysts whom you have no idea of their expertise who were hired by supporters of Trayvon Martin. These so called experts and their testimony has not been given fair opportunity to be cross examined by the defense.

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says."The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent."

All this told me is that "from what they were able to gather" that the screams can not be proven to be Zimmerman but they also can not conclude that these screams came from Trayvon.

[mynameismud]

its seems this country feels very strongly about their opinions on this case, whether they are pro zimmerman or anti zimmerman . i for one am on the fence for the time being. unfortunately...we will never know the complete truth on the events that transpired that night.

[brooks85]

They weren't hired by anyone, they were contacted by the sentinel. And, yes they cannot prove it was martin screaming but they can prove it wasn't Zimmerman and we know Zimmerman shot martin. We also know someone heard martin screaming and tried to file it in a police report, or we are going to find out real quick if she was lying when she goes on the stand but there is no reason to think the cops didn't coax her for now.

And one of the experts testified to convict someone on a murder they called in on a payphone. So im betting on conviction for zimmerman.

[stevenash]

My stance is they are both stupid fuks.

[sharpcat]

They weren't hired by anyone, they were contacted by the sentinel. And, yes they cannot prove it was martin screaming but they can prove it wasn't Zimmerman and we know Zimmerman shot martin. We also know someone heard martin screaming and tried to file it in a police report, or we are going to find out real quick if she was lying when she goes on the stand but there is no reason to think the cops didn't coax her for now.

And one of the experts testified to convict someone on a murder they called in on a payphone. So im betting on conviction for zimmerman.

They proved nothing besides the fact that they did not have enough to prove that the screams were from Zimmerman. Why did the states attorney decide to go with Trayvons mother over these so called experts who apparently like to work for free?

The witness that you speak of statements appear to have been altered according to what she was getting from media sources her testimony is very unlikely to see the stand.

[Jayvegas420]

With all this legal experience flowing through the thread I am surprised we haven't closed this case ourselves.
You red necks don't possess enough intellect to pretend you are attorneys. You couldn't hold a clerks position from what I have read.
Stop pretending to be lawyers when at best, you couldn't argue your way out of a parking ticket.
You are entitled to your opinion but, don't act like you have a working knowledge of the law, because you clearly don't.

[Grits n' Gravy]

No one who has posted in this thread has ever know anyone personally, who has been shot down on cold blood. So I dont think any of your opinions are valid.
When your close friends or Mother are shot in the same manner, then you have legitimate grounds to come into a thread like this & talk about how your Mother was in the wrong place & the wrong time, thus defending the crazy man who killed her.
I doubt you would be defending the Stand Your Ground law if a friend or family member were shot by a gun touting red neck.
I guaruntee you would not be in a forum defending this if YOU were the victim.

lets be realistic when posting our opinions in public & not just trying to instigate a fight with our words.
I find it hard to believe that any rational gambler truly believes we, as a society should allow this behavior to go unpunished.

I lost my oldest brother to a shooting when I was 8 years old. He was no saint and got caught up in the streets. Nobody was ever arrested and the person who did the shooting was found dead 2 days later. Police didn't care about any of it as it was just dope boys fighting over turf and no civilians got hurt. I lost numerous life long friends the same way growing up. I got caught with a stray when I was 12 by a bullet intended for someone else who took it personal and the shooters were never seen again. Before I straightened up and moved on to a new life I had several more first hand experiences with guns.

This current awful event is being blown way overboard by the media. Only 2 people know what really happened and 1 is dead. Zimmerman may have acted in self defense but had he minded his own damn business none of this would have occured. I don't believe he was targeting Martin due to his skin color but was trying to be a jr cop. Sharpton and Jesse do not speak for black America. They speak to stay in the news so they can profit financially. They are no more speaking for me than Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell speak for all whites. Cooler heads need to prevail and let the judicial system do its job. Zimmerman will likely beat the murder case but he will do time for shooting the gun. Precedents have already been set on this with the Stand Your Ground Law.

Condolences for your losses sharpcat.

[keyboarding]

You should not be allowed to confront someone while armed unless you are authorized to do so. For a civilian to stalk a party with a gun, get into a confrontation, kill the party, and not face any consequences... that's just a scary world to live in.

While I agree murder isn't what happened, Zimmerman cannot be a victim in this situation. If he walks away from this it's going to be a dark, dark day and one where I'll be glad I live in Canada where the only riots we have are over hockey games.

[wantitall4moi]

today showed why this guy is the best, unreal cross on the two cops whoa re STATE witnesses. Got them both to add all sorts of defense issues to the already defense friendly video and audio tapes.

The guy actually said Zimmerman could have been a victim (of course he was) but at this stage that isnt something you want the jury to hear in open court if youre the prosecutor, especially from YOUR witness.

[Mac4Lyfe]

But you have to realize that the Sanford police department has a personal vendetta with the prosecution. The police didn't initially arrest Zimmerman, they thought he should have gone free and no trial. They are all trying to screw the prosecution now as a result. I'm not sure why the prosecution would put these folks on the stand unless they just want to get them on the stand first???

The prosecution seems very incompetent IMO. They really don't seem to have a direct plan. They should have deflected this case from Zimmerman being able to stand his ground and defend himself and push that he followed and created the atmosphere for a fight. They should also focus on the injuries being superficial and not life threatening as the fight was not a big deal. He could have gotten up and gone home based on several testimony. This was a school fight that didn't deserve someone taking out a gun and shooting.

The prosecution is very Mickey Mouse like...

today showed why this guy is the best, unreal cross on the two cops whoa re STATE witnesses. Got them both to add all sorts of defense issues to the already defense friendly video and audio tapes.

The guy actually said Zimmerman could have been a victim (of course he was) but at this stage that isnt something you want the jury to hear in open court if youre the prosecutor, especially from YOUR witness.

[Kermit]

I am surprised that the police sided with Zimmerman considering he helped lead a protest against the son of one of the officers in 2007. The son(white) sucker punched a black man on the street. Zimmerman helped get justice for the black man.