[shari91]

If he texts you 2-10 minutes before every play is released wouldn't it be pretty easy to put in your bet before the line changes?

Justin7 wrote this in another RAS thread today. This is why you see people get frustrated... they assume RAS is just like some regular service.

My team is up over 100k following RAS CBB this year. If you don't bet it within 20 seconds, you don't have a chance... and in most cases, you want your bet confirmed within 1-2 seconds.

Almost all books will toss or restrict you for betting RAS. You need to have an endless supply of off-screen accounts you can churn through. Get cut from one, you get another (and another, and another).

For most players, you need to bet at least 500 a game, and have a way to bet instantly (or have a local that doesn't move quickly). If you can't get the opening price or close to it, you're wasting your time. If you are betting 5 minutes after release, don't bother.

[checo51]

[AdamStock1983]

I hate people that post picks that you can't get anywhere close to the line released. That being said someone needs to tell that poster that 57% in this game is outstanding. I guess he didn't take into account that 52.4% break even is WITH JUICE INCLUDED. I am pissed at myself for responding to such a dumb post but 57% is out of this world good. Anything more is not realistic

[Gaskan]

They also bet many mid major games which don't get as much action and are easier to move the lines. Follow some cappers who pick BCS games that get heavier action and the lines won't move as much.

[JohnnyFive]

Precisely because their selections move the line is the very reason that they are NOT a scam.

[Indy Dave]

I have been a subscriber in the past, and Edward is far from a fraud. I could not justify his service this year. I am only a 2-3 dollar player, and it did not make sense to me to pay for the subscription. Hindsight, I should have taken the leap of faith, but thanks to all of the subscribers that post here, I was able to win a few units. There were times in the past that I was not able to get a line, but the majority of the time, they were obtainable. On his website it clearly states the obstacles that you as a subscriber at up against. I do think earlier in the season he offered a refund for those whom were not able to obtain the lines. I don't know if it is too late, but something that you may want to look into. Good luck going forward.

[Thunder Gulch]

If you all think 57 is losing you aren't gonna make it lo in this....57 is 10 percent return on your investment...if for some reason you think you lose money on 57 or you gamble in a way that you don't win on 57 then I really feel bad for you....but you obviously don't get it....52.4 is break even with juice, 57 is making huge bank.... Wow...simply wow....I feel like this thread is a spoof...did I miss the sarcasm somewhere? Hey G, how's that fadin IC RAS thing going for ya?

Agree, If you can't make money at 57%, you shouldn't be playing because you can't do better. If the service is expensive, then bet more to cover the costs because a service hitting 57% over that many plays.

As for RAS...if you look closely at their record over 5 years, they make all their money in Nov/Dec. After that point, they are a losing proposition at the closing line.

I respect Ed's handicapping, but I am troubled by the speed with which the lines move. For them to move 15 seconds after release, the books have to be getting the plays direct, meaning I believe he sells his picks-knowingly or not- to the books. That is directly against his gambler clients best interests.

[usgtf]

Not if the line maker subscribes to his service

[TRDouble Dime]

Let me pose this question: if they are a loser at the closing line after their productive months (Nov/Dec), are they worthy of a fade...if the lines have adjusted significantly?

[heleanth]

I just recalculated RAS' profit based on his record against the closing line. He is actually negative, according to my calculations. Grading against the closing line causes a -40.1 unit adjustment. His subscribers will do better, but a realistic number for a subscriber probably falls somewhere in between. For us non-subscribers, grading against the closing line is probably pretty realistic.

[Edward-RAS]

For the millionth time, IT IS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE TO GET OUR RELEASE LINES.

If it wasn't, we wouldn't be in business.

You have to be a subscriber, you have to have adequate time and resources, and you have to make an effort experimenting with different sites and methods until you find a solution that works for you.

This is all discussed at length on our website, and we provide detailed advice in the RAS User Guide that is available to anyone.

Justin7's group wouldn't be up 100k this year if we were a "fraud" or if it was impossible to get our lines, but that is the type of commitment and sophistication that gets the best results. As stated on our order page:

This service is targeted towards sophisticated/professional bettors with sufficient bankrolls to justify the cost of the service. Please make sure you have the necessary bankroll, money management skills, discipline, time, and betting outs to successfully utiliize the service.

As I have said before on this forum, winning at sports betting is not easy. You have to be willing and able to put in the time and effort, and fight for the best number possible on every bet you make. Otherwise in general you will have a hard time being successful at sports betting, and the RAS service probably is not for you. Don't subscribe, or simply request a prorated refund at any time.

[JohnnyFive]

Heleanth, what is his actual record against the closing line? Is it possible that fading him (against a higher than released number) would be profitable? Is it possible to run some sort of analysis where the difference is X number of points from his released number, and what the record is?

[Edward-RAS]

I just recalculated RAS' profit based on his record against the closing line. He is actually negative, according to my calculations. Grading against the closing line causes a -40.1 unit adjustment. His subscribers will do better, but a realistic number for a subscriber probably falls somewhere in between. For us non-subscribers, grading against the closing line is probably pretty realistic.

Again, as I have stated before. If you're average bet is not beating the closing line, I don't care who or what you are following, you are going to have a real tough time winning long term. The goal is to always beat the closing line (at least on average), NOT play against it.

For those who don't think every point matters, just look at the results above.

[heleanth]

Agree. To be successful, you need to have a team and do this as a full time business. Otherwise, do it for fun, and do your own handicapping and bet small, so you get entertainment value for your dollar.

[Blackroc78]

[heleanth]

Heleanth, what is his actual record against the closing line? Is it possible that fading him (against a higher than released number) would be profitable? Is it possible to run some sort of analysis where the difference is X number of points from his released number, and what the record is?

Fading absolutely would be a terrible idea. When it comes right down to it, if you bet RAS against the closing line, you would be about even for the year in CBB. Many, including yours truly, would be very happywith that!

[Hurls]

i agree never can you get the lines he posts, absolutley f@*^@# on the denver u game.

[Kadinni]

lol for the idiots that suggest he should text you guys before...books are CUSTOMERS also lol...they would get the text and move them even quicker than before.

[King Midas]

IF YOU DON'T SUBSCRIBE, DON'T EVEN BOTHER BETTING THEIR PLAYS. It's not rocket science people. The closing line is the most accurate line there is. The books adjust accordingly throughout the day based on money coming in, volume on each end, and from where. They have a majority of the information on a game by the time it tips off, so betting into that closing number is already putting yourself behind the 8ball so to speak..

One issue I do have though is that, yes the beat the closing line all the time, but aren't they beating it BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES MOVING IT. I mean, it's great and all, but to use it as a marketing tool seems foolish to me. The combination of their solid history plus high-end clientele makes every line move automatically.

A service that does not move the line right away because maybe they bet $100 on the game and have two followers yet beat the closing line all the time should be able to use this as a marketing tool. Just think RAS using that is a bit misleading. Maybe I'm just nitpicking though.

In the end, to be successful with RAS, you must 1. pay for the service, 2. Have free time daily, and 3. have a ton of outs. Even failing to do one of the 3 could lead you to disaster, or at least in the SBR forum complaining.

[gangeriver]

I'm not a RAS fan...I like different services (wunderdog, frank patron etc..) but he always says "our service is not right for everyone" so if you accept his style, you should not complain.

[Lead4all]

the industry estimates that a line move of 0.5 to 1.0 point can impact your expected winning percentage by 2%-5%. Given ras is winning around 55% that leaves most in a losing situation over the long haul.... although its obvious to say, but if RAS with all the data they have is hitting around 55% and Dr. Bob is around that number...the common man doesnt stand a chance..in the long run the math will win out and you will lose... anyone who tells you they are winning sports better is a lier or hasnt bet long enough for the math to catch up... If the line moves on a RAS play, you should pass... over many years that 2% to 5% lost will add up and cost you alot of money...

[JohnnyFive]

I'm not a RAS fan...I like different services (wunderdog, frank patron etc..) but he always says "our service is not right for everyone" so if you accept his style, you should not complain.

Could not have said it better myself. They warn, quite clearly, about the line movements and warn you straight off, that their service isn't for everyone. And, still people complain. I just don't get it.

[heleanth]

Could not have said it better myself. They warn, quite clearly, about the line movements and warn you straight off, that their service isn't for everyone. And, still people complain. I just don't get it.

You are absolutely right: You just don't get it.

[Raiderguy101]

The problem Ed is whether u capped the game right or wrong, the line is going to move against your subscribers due to
reputation.

I'm a friend of David M, I
won't say his last name for privacy reasons. He's a
great capper, and a very humble guy, always honest. But before u hired him, I
used to follow him at another
site and it was hard then to
get the lines. I had multiple
windows open, multiple accounts, and a friend helping me. It's just too hard to get the same line. And that's why some of your paid subscribers are mad and frustrated. Us scavengers who don't pay have no right to bitch and complain though, but your subscribers do.

[Dutch]

Ras CBB was 51.33% last year. And that's at the best line possible. I understand you have to expect bad years, but I see no reason to pay for his service.

If you can't get the bets in before the line changes and you're still going to bet them, why not just find his picks online for free.

[emlax3]

RAS = good cappers that win based on initial lines.

RAS = Horrible service to buy.

You have to distinguish between the two. NO ONE. Not even the customers can get RAS lines since obviously all of the Books know the plays instantly as well and change them just as fast. This does not make them bad cappers, but it makes it a service that is not worth buying. Its sad because it is no fault of their own.. Just the facts. You cant get the lines even if you are a subscriber... and its not worth playing on the lines that you CAN get.

[Edward-RAS]

RAS = good cappers that win based on initial lines.

RAS = Horrible service to buy.

You have to distinguish between the two. NO ONE. Not even the customers can get RAS lines since obviously all of the Books know the plays instantly as well and change them just as fast. This does not make them bad cappers, but it makes it a service that is not worth buying. Its sad because it is no fault of their own.. Just the facts. You cant get the lines even if you are a subscriber... and its not worth playing on the lines that you CAN get.

Please read post #46 again.

Justin 7 is one of many subscribers who have testified right on this forum that they get the release lines consistently.

Suggesting otherwise is just misinformation.

[AlwaysDrawing]

Only reason you don't see more subscribers coming to RAS's defense, is every additional subscriber costs every current subscriber. More people hitting lines causes books to boot/collar players faster.

Prices will continue to rise, and the subscribers actually want that. They don't want more $99 weekends.

[emlax3]

Please read post #46 again.

Justin 7 is one of many subscribers who have testified right on this forum that they get the release lines consistently.

Suggesting otherwise is just misinformation.

Edward, I realize that you are a paid employee of RAS whose duty is to keep the reputation of the service as positive as possible on the forums... But the facts can no longer be denied.

Just b/c you can pull up one quote from a COMPLETELY different thread of one guy who bets with a group that sits by their computers 24/7 with multiple screens open just waiting for a 10 second window to place a max wager on an RAS bet... does not mean that it is a service worthy of giving your money to. If you are in the .00000000001% of people that can do what Justin7 does... Fine. The rest of us, who have lives and responsibilities, even if we bet heavy and really care about our betting/capping... we cant get those lines.

Its easy to make up a few new anon accounts of people quickly bashing anyone who dare question the all powerful "RAS"... But in reality, the lines change within a minute of being released. Some even sooner.

So to try and search out a book that is crazy slow with lines, sit by the comp with a group of ppl who have multiple screeens open each, waiting for the message from RAS, then hopping on in less than 10 secs before the line changes all for 57% AND while paying an enormous fee... Isnt worth it to most if any.

Not saying RAS doesnt have the best capping. Just that the books have adjusted and it sucks now b/c it really affected the value of the service.

[Raiderguy101]

Please read post #46 again.

Justin 7 is one of many subscribers who have testified right on this forum that they get the release lines consistently.

Suggesting otherwise is just misinformation.

And you need read where many of your subscribers say they CAN'T get your lines. Like I said, these lines move within 10-15 seconds, rarely can u get the same lines as u.

I guess u do leave yourself some wiggle room by saying "it isn't for everybody". But you gotta feel for the paying subscribers who get screwed.

[rglopez]

Fraud is misleading and slandering. I do agree however that its bogus for them to give you a 15 second headstart prior to releasing to clients. I assume Ed and his boys are betting big money on the games as well which is why the lines move so quickly but its bad business to give out lines that cannot be achieved on a regular basis. I for one would not continue to pay for a capper that does that.

[Edward-RAS]

And you need read where many of your subscribers say they CAN'T get your lines. Like I said, these lines move within 10-15 seconds, rarely can u get the same lines as u.

I guess u do leave yourself some wiggle room by saying "it isn't for everybody". But you gotta feel for the paying subscribers who get screwed.

The service is clearly not for everyone, and getting our release lines can be a challenge, even for experienced bettors. You have to be well prepared and have needed time and resources to be successful. This is all clearly printed right on our order page.

What I am disputing is the assertion that "NO ONE" can get them, which is 100% false. There are many, many people who can get them, as many have attested to right on this forum, and not ghosts, but well known and/or long time members. Justin7 is just one example, Downsouth is another, and there have been many others.

[Edward-RAS]

I do agree however that its bogus for them to give you a 15 second headstart prior to releasing to clients.

No one gets a 15 second head start.

Clients get a 5 minute warning via e-mail/text before any release starts, so they can get ready.

Plays are then released on a countdown timer so all subscribers receive the information at exactly the same time.

[AdamStock1983]

Who the hell can make a bet in 15 seconds? I mean honestly to find the rotation number, type in the amount, and go through all the conformation screens in 15 seconds is laughable. I'd pay to see someone try to attempt this and be successful. If this is what you need to go through to get his bets anyone who has half a brain should pass on this service. This Edward Guy seems straight forward and honest, but you can't expect people to get your bets placed in 15 seconds cold. Not realistic. Pass on the service. I know he said "Not for everyone" but Id like to know who this service IS FOR

[Duff85]

That's a bunch of trouble to go through for 57% win rate....expensive too!

lol. 57% is a huge win rate over a thousand or so plays. If you are betting stuff that is in the range of 50% probability which most of the spreads on the big sports are... your long term win rate is going to be in the range of 50%. Why do fukking donkeys not understand that?

and buying points suckss dicck and just creates more juice

Your a donk too. If you get any number outside of the number that RAS quotes - number or juice... your not getting the same number. So if he assumes that your taking his Ohio State+7 -105 and you buy it back up to Ohio State+7 -115 - you are likely not going to win long term. Why do people seriously think that all you have to is get the same spread as RAS and you win? Its all about the price.


Most of the people who posted in this thread are why bookmakers like William Hill and Blowdog can turn record profits.