[BookiesBernanke]

How can a Christian honestly not see how their worship of the SON is really the SUN

[Iced]

The "if you can't prove it exists then does not exist" argument is the lamest argument available.

No atheist makes that argument. It's Christians who make the argument "since you can't prove God doesn't exist, then God exists."

My real confusion on atheists is why are they so commited to trying to berate or get people to join their non belief? If you don't believe you don't believe.... if that is your unmovable stance then why not keep it to yourself and go o with living out your life......

Yeah, it's atheists who go door-to-door asking people to join their belief system. It's atheists who kill abortion doctors. It's atheists who fly planes into buildings. Oh wait.

[BookiesBernanke]

No atheist makes that argument. It's Christians who make the argument "since you can't prove God doesn't exist, then God exists."


Yeah, it's atheists who go door-to-door asking people to join their belief system. It's atheists who kill abortion doctors. It's atheists who fly planes into buildings. Oh wait.

Those are Republicans

[DrStale]

Not all atheists are angry and aggressive, but the reason many of them try to persuade others is because they believe it is beneficial to them and to the world at large (the same reason many Christians do the very same thing).

If people believe that God has a plan for them they may not strive to reach their goals or they may make poor decisions.

Believing in an afterlife can make people not appreciate this life, and can be used solely as a coping mechanism to deal with death.

Believing homosexuality is a sin that can be cured ruins peoples lives

Believing that they are forgiven through reconciliation can cause people to sin when they may not have other wise (i.e. catholic sexual abuse scandals)

In general, the belief that people have "found" the answers they seek in God can keep them from seeking out the true answers. What happens after we die? Why is there evil in the world? What causes diseases, natural disasters, etc.? These are all questions that those with faith have answered with something to the effect of "its God's plan" and then they stop thinking about it, which leads to the true answers not being found.

That is why atheists are often annoyed by religious people.

[topgame85]

To me the problem with atheists just comes to hypocrisy.... for a group that so vehemently attacks people for believng something they can not prove to someone else they actively and aggressively claim they know something that they have no ability to prove does not exist to someone and have faith in a bunch of theories, which is just what they are theories as to how they thing maybe possible things could have shaken out as they did. Agnostics at least have a "reasonable" claim whereas atheists do not.........

[ACoochy]

]To me the problem with atheists just comes to hypocrisy[/B].... for a group that so vehemently attacks people for believng something they can not prove to someone else they actively and aggressively claim they know something that they have no ability to prove does not exist to someone and have faith in a bunch of theories, which is just what they are theories as to how they thing maybe possible things could have shaken out as they did. Agnostics at least have a "reasonable" claim whereas atheists do not.........

All religions are hypocritic in nature topper, one of the reasons im agnostic (whoops did i just say that)...I mean whats so wrong in admitting that logically if no one can prove the existence (note, NOT self belief) then y shouldnt one be able to simply admit this instead of being ostracized for not doing so??

[flyingillini]

Religion is a form of brainwashing. People want something to believe in and it gives them hope. We are the chosen people that believe in the Old Testament while you believe in the phony sequel.

[DrStale]

I suppose in the most common definition of the terms I would be agnostic, though there are several ways to define both agnostic and atheist. Basically I just dont see any reason to believe in any God. The world's major religions are all adapted from earlier religions (son of God, virgin birth, death, ressurection) were all tenets of primitive belief systems so it really does confuse me as to why anyone would follow them. I get it if you feel like you have a personal relationship with your own God, but the organized stuff just doesnt make much sense imo.

[topgame85]

No atheist makes that argument. It's Christians who make the argument "since you can't prove God doesn't exist, then God exists."


Yeah, it's atheists who go door-to-door asking people to join their belief system. It's atheists who kill abortion doctors. It's atheists who fly planes into buildings. Oh wait.

1. That is clearly what your posted comic above was meant to imply and it is not my claim God exists because you can't prove he does not but rather that you can't prove he does not exist because you can't prove he does not exist. God does exist and spiritually I know this. The spirit, at least at this time, is beyond scientific test of proofs.

2.Sounds like you beef is with either religious radicals or wolves in sheeps clothing who have turned you sour. Of course people take advantage of certain teachings to fit their hate and agenda or people misinterpret teachings. And then there are just people who are mentally ill, unstable or turned to evil by Satan. What better way for satan to try and discredit religion than by attacking it from the inside or having people commit atrocities that appear to be religiously justified? Unfortunately some, as yourself, have been swayed by these and is part of the reason satan has gained ground among the masses by turning them to him or at the very least away from the lord. This has all been told already in the Bible. this is not news to people of faith. Still is sad though and in the end as many souls as satan steals or sways he will not triumph.

[ACoochy]

Religion is a form of brainwashing. People want something to believe in and it gives them hope. We are the chosen people that believe in the Old Testament while you believe in the phony sequel.

Illini, wasnt expecting that but can understand given the amount of vitriol present in this thread (the conversation was still relatively str8 this time yesterday)...

[flyingillini]

TopGamer is one of the smartest posters on this site. He knows what he is talking about and he is blessed with the knowledge from the man upstairs. Topper is a hero to all on SBR!

[topgame85]

All religions are hypocritic in nature topper, one of the reasons im agnostic (whoops did i just say that)...I mean whats so wrong in admitting that logically if no one can prove the existence (note, NOT self belief) then y shouldnt one be able to simply admit this instead of being ostracized for not doing so??

I see your point as that is my exact reason for at least understanding the agnostic approach. It is in itself reasonable by human nature where there is not the knowledge or understanding of all things that God posseses. To me self belief is all that matters for me in the end though. Why question something and sit the fence as an agnostic when I have a spiritual connection and personal relationship with my higher being that I can not deny myself? I don't need to hang out with my higher being face to face, take pictures and show all my friends to reaffirm what I know for myself to be true. even if it were only true to me (which is not as millions have a similar relaionship, some even stronger than mine I am sure.)

[TheMoneyShot]

I believe most gamblers in the world DO NOT BELIEVE.

You forgot Baptist as a selection... no biggie though.

I'm a proud Catholic. But I don't force religion down anyone's throat. It's their choice.

[topgame85]

TopGamer is one of the smartest posters on this site. He knows what he is talking about and he is blessed with the knowledge from the man upstairs. Topper is a hero to all on SBR!

God has and will continue to bless Flyer

[flyingillini]

God has and will continue to bless Flyer

May Jesus Christ be with you and your positive decisions during your new life. Topper brings tears to my eyes knowing he is a changed man and now a positive member of society.

[ACoochy]

I see your point as that is my exact reason for at least understanding the agnostic approach. It is in itself reasonable by human nature where there is not the knowledge or understanding of all things that God posseses. To me self belief is all that matters for me in the end though. Why question something and sit the fence as an agnostic when I have a spiritual connection and personal relationship with my higher being that I can not deny myself? I don't need to hang out with my higher being face to face, take pictures and show all my friends to reaffirm what I know for myself to be true. even if it were only true to me (which of course is not because millions no what I am speaking about.)

Topper u make some good points but sitting on the fence at least doesnt harm innocent husbands, wives and children in the name of something that no one can prove exists...

Im all for personal beliefs but when those beliefs begin to harm others then thats when i have a BIG problem...And who the fukk are you trying to ostracize me for 'sitting on the fence' (such a common christian trait to belittle and install fear into non-believers whether it be directly or indirectly)?? Tell me when the last time was when i belittled you for ur beliefs??? Topper, its ok to not know, its not a bad thing (even if other uninformed ppl tell u it is)...

Careful topper and think about what u say next...We all arent blinded by the fear of that for which we do not know topper...I know ur smarter than this yet you choose the path you have chosen...Then again u r indoctrinated into this mentality culturally speaking so to resonate with a different belief system would mean facing the ostracization of ur peers at a minimum and a 'loss of faith' at worst...

Go speak to some War vets who have killed in "Gods name" and ask them what they think about their god...Im spoken to a few posters here who b4 service were devout christians but after coming back home have become anything but....

Illini stop setting this kid up, he clearly isnt as intelligent as he makes out if he has to personalise others belief systems in a negative context just to get his point across...

Topper, lift your game pal, ur better than this 'time and time again' form of vitriol....

[topgame85]

Topper u make some good points but sitting on the fence at least doesnt harm innocent husbands, wives and children in the name of something that no one can prove exists...

Im all for personal beliefs but when those beliefs begin to harm others then thats when i have a BIG problem...And who the fukk are you trying to ostracize me for 'sitting on the fence' (such a common christian trait to belittle and install fear into non-believers whether it be directly or indirectly)?? Topper, its ok to not know, its not a bad thing (even if other uninformed ppl tell u it is)...

Careful topper and think about what u say next...We all arent blinded by the fear of that for which we do not know topper...I know ur smarter than this yet you choose the path you have chosen...Then again u r indoctrinated into this mentality culturally speaking so to resonate with a different belief system would mean facing the ostracization of ur peers at a minimum and a 'loss of faith' at worst...

Go speak to some War vets who have killed in "Gods name" and ask them what they think about their god...Im spoken to a few posters here who b4 service were devout christians but after coming back home have become anything but....

Illini stop setting this kid up, he clearly isnt as intelligent as he makes out if he has to personalise others belief systms in a negative context just to get his point across...

Topper, lift your game pal, ur better than this 'time and time again' form of vitriol....

No intention to ostracize you. Not sure how it came across as that because clearly that was not my intent and is what my issue is with atheists. Most agnostic people would openly admit to "being on the fence" as that is a term used to explain the area between knowing or not knowing. You have doubts as to both sides so are unwilling to commit to either thus "sitting on the fence." I guess it is not exactly the same as just "not knowing" but thought it was similar enough to use the phrase. If you understand or interpret the term differently than I do I apologize for the miscommunication. Even after re-reading my post not sure how you took this as a negative or attack but once again not my intent. Entire post basically meant to serve to agree with how and why people can take the agnostic approach and I respect their right to do that yet I was not willing to deny myself a full relationship with my creator by denying publicly or privately his existence or even the lack of "knowing". Not everyone has the same relationship with a higher power so it is very different for each individual. As for the war comment I did not serve in the military although I have many friends who have gone into warzones and come back. I don't know about the people you spoke to but they were not there to kill for "their God" they were not there to fight Islam. Hell most signed up before any of the 9/11 stuff happened and those who signed afterwards were not joining to kill people of another faith. They were there to take orders and protect their nation. Anyone joining military service for any other reason is doing so for the wrong reason.

[JohnGalt2341]