[l7ustin]

i think we should pay whores, pimps, and liquor store owners more and pay ems fire teachers and police less....

[poochiecollins]

Here's one of the top bosses firefighters have fought:

[poochiecollins]

I forgot about this thread. Back to NO SRSLY

Most "volunteer" fire fighters live in small towns where there is no budget to pay them. But the thing about small towns is that accountability is easier to come by. If you volunteer you're expected to take it seriously and get trained. And if you don't, word will get around. You will be scrutinized by your neighbor in a personal way. This is a motivator to do your job. In bigger cities where it's completely different. There is no such proximal accountability. How many people know their local firemen in a big city? There are also a shit load more fires and emergencies. The volume of calls encountered by a paid big city fire fighter compared to a volunteer is massive. You're not going to have people risking their lives every day in a big city to put out fires if they aren't getting paid. It just doesn't work that way. The stress and the media scrutiny are infinitely higher. Small town inter-personal scorn will result in a harsh word or two, and a temporarily marred reputation, (which you want to avoid if you want to get laid,) but it won't result in a lawsuit or potential criminal negligence charges that you might find from big city prosecutors. Do you really think you're going to be able to find enough suitable volunteers to patrol places like Chicago or New York, where there are thousands of firetraps all over the damned city if they aren't getting paid? Where would they find the time to work their real job?

My money says that there aren't guys getting into volunteer firefighting just to pick up chicks, which is the only feasible reason for someone to volunteer in the industry and not take the work seriously. I did some research and found that smaller communities do have a higher ratio of firefighters, as you imply, but I postulate that this would be due to higher status, since more people would know who you are, and that making money is more important in urban areas. I would guess that firefighting is generally more complex in urban areas, so -this- would increase the need for proper firefighting and medical skills.

If you decrease pay in these areas, then dumber less motivated people take the jobs instead of intelligent people. Less pay means less respect for the job. You can pay people too much that they take a job for granted, but you can also pay them so little that they don't take the job seriously. You want them to feel they are earning their pay and keeping their skills honed and sharp. In a big city, where a fire can jump from an apartment complex to a strip mall to a hospital, you want the best people available to limit potential death and destruction. If farmer Joe's barn catches fire because a lantern spilled over, 7-8 volunteers aren't going to make much more of a difference coming in than 7-8 professionals. But if slumlord Joe's rat-traps start going up in flames, you're going to need those professionals to save lives and contain the damage.

The facts that some communities apparently get away with an entirely volunteer force and that firefighters are rarely laid off or fired suggests to me that employee quality isn't greatly important in the industry, -even in- more complex, urban situations.

I've discussed a fair bit of educated guesswork, but what you say isn't common sense; you'd have to have gotten such information from someone in the industry, either verbally or read, if it's to be credible than anything I've said, so state your sources if you have them.

[poochiecollins]

yeah, because if I get a quote from someone in the industry it's not going to be filled with ad-hominem bias at all is it?

You're saying that you'd expect volunteers to say there's little/no difference in skill between them and professionals, out of personal bias? Okay then, I would generally trust the word of professionals on the difference between experienced volunteers and professionals, so citing professionals on this topic should do.

[spurginobili]

They're overpaid until your house is burning to the ground.

[MoneylineExpress]

If anything they are underpaid. There is so much you need to know how to do as a firefighter. Most today also need to be a paramedic or EMT which is another profession in its own.

[freeVICK]

most fire fighters have side jobs, which allow them to make some dough

[Maverick22]

Most "volunteer" fire fighters live in small towns where there is no budget to pay them. But the thing about small towns is that accountability is easier to come by. If you volunteer you're expected to take it seriously and get trained. And if you don't, word will get around. You will be scrutinized by your neighbor in a personal way. This is a motivator to do your job.

In bigger cities where it's completely different. There is no such proximal accountability. How many people know their local firemen in a big city?

There are also a shit load more fires and emergencies. The volume of calls encountered by a paid big city fire fighter compared to a volunteer is massive. You're not going to have people risking their lives every day in a big city to put out fires if they aren't getting paid. It just doesn't work that way. The stress and the media scrutiny are infinitely higher. Small town inter-personal scorn will result in a harsh word or two, and a temporarily marred reputation, (which you want to avoid if you want to get laid,) but it won't result in a lawsuit or potential criminal negligence charges that you might find from big city prosecutors.

Do you really think you're going to be able to find enough suitable volunteers to patrol places like Chicago or New York, where there are thousands of firetraps all over the damned city if they aren't getting paid? Where would they find the time to work their real job?

If you decrease pay in these areas, then dumber less motivated people take the jobs instead of intelligent people. Less pay means less respect for the job. You can pay people too much that they take a job for granted, but you can also pay them so little that they don't take the job seriously. You want them to feel they are earning their pay and keeping their skills honed and sharp. In a big city, where a fire can jump from an apartment complex to a strip mall to a hospital, you want the best people available to limit potential death and destruction. If farmer Joe's barn catches fire because a lantern spilled over, 7-8 volunteers aren't going to make much more of a difference coming in than 7-8 professionals. But if slumlord Joe's rat-traps start going up in flames, you're going to need those professionals to save lives and contain the damage.

You say this b/c you do not personally know any or many volunteer firefighters...

As noted: Firefighters do WAY more than fight fires

And maybe the volunteer fire fights just want to give back to the community. Not everybody is after a dime.

I am signing up to be a volunteer fire fighter soon. Its unpaid and thats fine with me. Life is about give and take...

If i dont make it as a fire fighter.. I'll probably do big brother, big sister.

For me. it is about helping out where i can. Doing my part...

[itzjustme]

alot of vounteers for that shit and risking your life..

[poochiecollins]

They're overpaid until your house is burning to the ground.

Like accountants are overpaid until they do your taxes? Or professional athletes are overpaid until they help your team win a championship? Why don't we just boost everyone's salary? Don't use ad hominem, please.

[poochiecollins]

If anything they are underpaid. There is so much you need to know how to do as a firefighter. Most today also need to be a paramedic or EMT which is another profession in its own.

I'm going to wager that people with EMT skills who want to be firefighters greatly outnumber current paid positions.

[Killer_Demo]

rather give a firefighter more pay than some power-trippin pig cop

[andywend]

30 years ago, government jobs paid slightly less than similar jobs in the private sector but to make up for the slightly lower pay, they had far better job security and better benefits (medical, 401K retirement, etc).

Now government jobs pay 2X-3X what the private sector pays in addition to the job security and far better benefits. However, these government employees continue to whine and complain they aren't paid enough.

Under no circumstances should there be any union presence where government jobs are concerned.

Its one thing if a private company is stupid enough to bury themselves by hiring union labor as they will simply go out of business and it won't have a huge negative impact outside of the business. However, when local, state and federal governments are forced to negotiate with ridiculous demands from union labor groups, all taxpayers suffer from the higher wages/lower productivity that all union labor produces.

ALL UNIONS SHOULD BE ABOLISHED!!!!

[thespeculator]

they have tough jobs, but are compensated by good salaries benefits, job security and pension. There really is no such thing as an easy job ,that 's why they call it work. My dad worked in steel factory for a long time , they had injuries on the job all the time

[unusialsusp5]

they are overpaid but it's the pension that they think they're going to get that is causing problems...there's no way states are going to be able to pay these pensions...no way...

[timmyboy34243]

i'm not runnung into a burning building and i'm not willing to be a mobile target because i wear a badge on my shirt. 2 professions i can do without.

[Cap dat 4ss]

Firefighters and IAFF have exploited tax payers and cities for quit some time. Problem is no politician nor party risks going head to head publicly with the FD, its political suicide.

[poochiecollins]

Firefighters and IAFF have exploited tax payers and cities for quit some time. Problem is no politician nor party risks going head to head publicly with the FD, its political suicide.

Might be right; a case of lack of intelligence and closed-mindedness costing taxpayers money and keeping qualified people from their ideal jobs. I'm now seriously considering becoming a volunteer firefighter, as of this writing, but I'll probably never be able to get a paycheck being one in part because of people in this thread thinking we should overpay them. Arrrrrrr!