[rsnnh12]

lol. Really?

You guys are funny.

Great rebuttal

[Thor4140]

Progressives are so cute. And by cute, I mean stupid. The corporate tax rate in the US is 35%. One of the highest rates in the world. Very few companies pay that much, obviously, but it comes at a heavy cost. Its not like the government is telling them about all the tax breaks they can get... the companies are paying accountants and lawyers a LOT of money to find those breaks. Isn't that just a huge waste of time and money for everyone?

Some companies decide its worth moving offshore to avoid all of that mess. Can you blame them?

The real easy solution is just making a simple tax code and lowering the corporate tax rate. More businesses stay, pay a specific rate, and create more jobs. When are the "super smart" progressives going to push for that?

Here genius look how much these companies paid in taxes

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
2) BkofAma received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to impose a 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be paired with new revenue so the federal budget is not balanced solely on the backs of working families.
"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."

Of course these great capitalists used all that money they dodged taxes on to create new jobs in the USA.

[falconticket]

Forbes has updated its article to include a statement from Exxon: "Though Exxon's financial statement's don't show any net income tax liability owed to Uncle Sam, a company spokesman insists that once its final tax bill is figured, Exxon will owe a 'substantial 2009 tax liability.' How substantial? 'That's not something we're required to disclose, nor do we.'"

[falconticket]

Corporations do not pay taxes. They are merely tax collectors for the government. The end consumer actually ends up paying all the taxes plus the company's profit and expenses. If you bought anything from wal-mart last year, you contributed to the $5.9 billion check that went to uncle Sam. This is really not that hard to figure out.

[rsnnh12]

Here genius look how much these companies paid in taxes

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
2) BkofAma received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to impose a 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be paired with new revenue so the federal budget is not balanced solely on the backs of working families.
"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."

Of course these great capitalists used all that money they dodged taxes on to create new jobs in the USA.

Herp derp keep copying and pasting random BS that doesn't address the post.

Yes, its a great idea to raise taxes on those evil oil companies, right? Its not like they would just raise the price we pay at the pump, right?

If you don't like the profit they are making, why don't you start up your own oil company? Find the oil, get it out, send it back to the US, and charge $1.50/gallon or whatever you think is a "fair" price. What's stopping you?? You're free to do that... but its easier to sit back and bitch about how the oil companies owe everyone. To bitch about how all the big companies owe more in taxes, even though it would all get passed onto the consumer.

So, can you challenge my earlier post of making a simple tax code with low corporate taxes? Why haven't progressives pushed for that?

[Thor4140]

Herp derp keep copying and pasting random BS that doesn't address the post.

Yes, its a great idea to raise taxes on those evil oil companies, right? Its not like they would just raise the price we pay at the pump, right?

If you don't like the profit they are making, why don't you start up your own oil company? Find the oil, get it out, send it back to the US, and charge $1.50/gallon or whatever you think is a "fair" price. What's stopping you?? You're free to do that... but its easier to sit back and bitch about how the oil companies owe everyone. To bitch about how all the big companies owe more in taxes, even though it would all get passed onto the consumer.

So, can you challenge my earlier post of making a simple tax code with low corporate taxes? Why haven't progressives pushed for that?

What the phony conservative views here are asking us to believe is that (I guess) American companies who know how to beat the system would modify their business model which is keeping them from paying anything in taxes in this country while profiting handsomely from doing business in it will change that model ONLY if the tax rates come down - that they are avoiding already and profiting handsomely from. Excuse me if I don't have faith in those companies to care about this country to the point of changing their bottom line to help it. There is NOTHING to show that they would - and plenty to show that they wouldn't.

They already know how to beat the system. Why would they advocate or change their focus to jeopardize that? They already spend millions to ensure their beating the system continues, which does not go in the pockets of the workers of this country, nor the shareholders of their company. Again - the ONLY thing these corporations care about is their bottom line, and the fact that they currently conduct business and profit handsomely from it in this country, and pay NOTHING for that right, is sad. You phony conservatives rant about your tax dollars going into other people's pockets for nothing - and yet couldn't care less about this? Seriously? Talk about disingenuous...

And, bottom line - it won't get better unless reform takes place. It wil get worse, thanks to the Supreme Court allowing these corporations to increasingly shape the politics of this country, while the elected officials they are propping up are taking drastic measures to eliminate the individual from the situation. Corporations will soon rule our country completely - and the only way anyone will benefit is if you are invested in the right companies that control the country.

SAD.

[falconticket]

Exxon mobile and the other companies you listed are majority owned by the American people thru stocks, mutual funds, IRAs, 401ks. Why would you want to cut into their returns anyway? We are the corporations. Tax the corps, tax us. Unless your a moocher that lives of the government tit.

[benjy]

Exxon mobile and the other companies you listed are majority owned by the American people thru stocks, mutual funds, IRAs, 401ks. Why would you want to cut into their returns anyway? We are the corporations. Tax the corps, tax us. Unless your a moocher that lives of the government tit.

All Americans are not stockholders. Neither are all stockholders American.

This is really not that hard to figure out.

[rsnnh12]

What the phony conservative views here are asking us to believe is that (I guess) American companies who know how to beat the system would modify their business model which is keeping them from paying anything in taxes in this country while profiting handsomely from doing business in it will change that model ONLY if the tax rates come down - that they are avoiding already and profiting handsomely from. Excuse me if I don't have faith in those companies to care about this country to the point of changing their bottom line to help it. There is NOTHING to show that they would - and plenty to show that they wouldn't.

They already know how to beat the system. Why would they advocate or change their focus to jeopardize that? They already spend millions to ensure their beating the system continues, which does not go in the pockets of the workers of this country, nor the shareholders of their company. Again - the ONLY thing these corporations care about is their bottom line, and the fact that they currently conduct business and profit handsomely from it in this country, and pay NOTHING for that right, is sad. You phony conservatives rant about your tax dollars going into other people's pockets for nothing - and yet couldn't care less about this? Seriously? Talk about disingenuous...

And, bottom line - it won't get better unless reform takes place. It wil get worse, thanks to the Supreme Court allowing these corporations to increasingly shape the politics of this country, while the elected officials they are propping up are taking drastic measures to eliminate the individual from the situation. Corporations will soon rule our country completely - and the only way anyone will benefit is if you are invested in the right companies that control the country.

SAD.

Cute. So entrenched in your hatred of big business that you can't follow logic. If you notice, I said "make a simple tax code and pro-business environment by lowering taxes". There's nothing for these companies to "get around" if there's a simple tax code...

And why do businesses get taxed anyway? That's all factored into their business plan, and every tax is just factored into their prices (as falconticket already explained)... so how is a tax on them helping anything? WE pay for it, not them.

So what's your solution? Tax big business at 40%? 50? 60?

[benjy]

Cute. So entrenched in your hatred of big business that you can't follow logic. If you notice, I said "make a simple tax code and pro-business environment by lowering taxes". There's nothing for these companies to "get around" if there's a simple tax code...

And why do businesses get taxed anyway? That's all factored into their business plan, and every tax is just factored into their prices (as falconticket already explained)... so how is a tax on them helping anything? WE pay for it, not them.

So what's your solution? Tax big business at 40%? 50? 60?

Your logic is not straightforward. It seems to contradict itself: you espouse a simple tax code where corporations would have to pay taxes but yet describe taxes as something the public pays for anyways and are pointless.

[chilidog]

Democrats people

[rsnnh12]

Your logic is not straightforward. It seems to contradict itself: you espouse a simple tax code where corporations would have to pay taxes but yet describe taxes as something the public pays for anyways and are pointless.

They are pointless and should be done away with... but do you think that would fly with the general public? They would rage, because they don't understand business at all (as seen by "progressives" posting here). The simple tax code/low corporate taxes is IMO a compromise that is at least moving in the right direction... its not ideal

[Thor4140]

They are pointless and should be done away with... but do you think that would fly with the general public? They would rage, because they don't understand business at all (as seen by "progressives" posting here). The simple tax code/low corporate taxes is IMO a compromise that is at least moving in the right direction... its not ideal

In post 72 i purposely highlighted in red for a simpleton like urself, on how much these companies paid. which was zero. I would love for this tax rate to be zero but a lot of these companies are so greedy (not all) they will be looking to cut from another area. These fuks can't make enuf money. Next it will be throwing out regulations and then next peoples salary. Aren't u a little pissed at 1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. A fuking 156 million dollar rebate? Nah of course u are not pissed A guy like u calls this capitalism. I call it an out and out jack.

[rsnnh12]

In post 72 i purposely highlighted in red for a simpleton like urself, on how much these companies paid. which was zero. I would love for this tax rate to be zero but a lot of these companies are so greedy (not all) they will be looking to cut from another area. These fuks can't make enuf money. Next it will be throwing out regulations and then next peoples salary. Aren't u a little pissed at 1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. A fuking 156 million dollar rebate? Nah of course u are not pissed A guy like u calls this capitalism. I call it an out and out jack.

LOL. What are you not getting about this? They don't get those rebates for free! They spend TONS of money on accountants and lawyers to get those. Isn't that a complete waste? Get rid of complicated tax codes, lower the tax rates. That means the millions currently spent on accountants and lawyers to avoid taxes gets put into the company (more jobs?).

Its just a waste IMO to keep a complicated corporate tax system, when all of the remaining taxes get passed to the consumer

[benjy]

LOL. What are you not getting about this? They don't get those rebates for free! They spend TONS of money on accountants and lawyers to get those. Isn't that a complete waste? Get rid of complicated tax codes, lower the tax rates. That means the millions currently spent on accountants and lawyers to avoid taxes gets put into the company (more jobs?).

Its just a waste IMO to keep a complicated corporate tax system, when all of the remaining taxes get passed to the consumer

While you certainly have a point regarding the use, and cost, of armies of accountants it is a vast oversimplification to imply (or claim) that the costs involved offset the taxes those firms have avoided.

[guitarjosh]

Here genius look how much these companies paid in taxes

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
2) BkofAma received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
Sanders has called for closing corporate tax loopholes and eliminating tax breaks for oil and gas companies. He also introduced legislation to impose a 5.4 percent surtax on millionaires that would yield up to $50 billion a year. The senator has said that spending cuts must be paired with new revenue so the federal budget is not balanced solely on the backs of working families.
"We have a deficit problem. It has to be addressed," Sanders said, "but it cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people, the most vulnerable in this country. The wealthiest people and the largest corporations in this country have got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."

Of course these great capitalists used all that money they dodged taxes on to create new jobs in the USA.

None of that really surprises me, considering big corporations are in bed with the politicians who write the tax laws filled with loopholes to exploit.

BTW, most true capitalists would be against corporate welfare.

[Thor4140]

None of that really surprises me, considering big corporations are in bed with the politicians who write the tax laws filled with loopholes to exploit.

BTW, most true capitalists would be against corporate welfare.

. That is why i call them phony conservatives. There is nothing conservative about this bunch. These are the same conservatives that didn't say peep when Bush and the right wing congress spent like druken sailors for six years. Not one peep but now they are all the sudden worried about spending. Same with these jokes who call themselves the tea party. Where were they those six years? It really is hard to take them seriously. Actually, to take a stand like they have u might think most of them are to stupid to take a stand at all.

[rsnnh12]

While you certainly have a point regarding the use, and cost, of armies of accountants it is a vast oversimplification to imply (or claim) that the costs involved offset the taxes those firms have avoided.

I never claimed it offset... if it did, companies wouldn't bother with the army of accountants, right? They're obviously keeping more than they would've if they just paid the initial taxes.

My point is that instead of paying $20 mil to go from paying 35% tax to 15% tax, just make it a simple 15% tax rate that you can't get around. The $20 mil will just go back into the company, creating jobs

[Thor4140]

I never claimed it offset... if it did, companies wouldn't bother with the army of accountants, right? They're obviously keeping more than they would've if they just paid the initial taxes.

My point is that instead of paying $20 mil to go from paying 35% tax to 15% tax, just make it a simple 15% tax rate that you can't get around. The $20 mil will just go back into the company, creating jobs

Stop with "the more money they make they will create more jobs" nonsense. That works in fantasyland. Same ole shit with trickledown economics that never trickle. Lets say i own a business and get a big tax break. why in the world would i create more jobs? Sales create more jobs not tax breaks. If more people come into my shop i have to hire more. Tax breaks don't bring more people into my shop.

[rsnnh12]

Stop with "the more money they make they will create more jobs" nonsense. That works in fantasyland. Same ole shit with trickledown economics that never trickle. Lets say i own a business and get a big tax break. why in the world would i create more jobs? Sales create more jobs not tax breaks. If more people come into my shop i have to hire more. Tax breaks don't bring more people into my shop.

But tax breaks allow you to develop new products/services, offer more for potential customers, etc, which brings more people into your shop... Sales create more jobs. You don't get more sales without reinvestment. Its kinda funny to me, that the same people complaining about the greedy rich, think that those rich people won't expand their companies, even though expansion will... drumroll please... get them bigger profits! Its pretty much common sense. VERY few companies reach the point where they can't really expand any more, so they have a surplus of cash (Microsoft being the glaring example).

And trickle down does work... that's what our entire economy is based on

[hankcream]

Democrats believe all US corporations should operate like the the postal service. How many intelligent citizens would invest their own money in the US Postal Service if it was a listed stock??????

[benjy]

But tax breaks allow you to develop new products/services, offer more for potential customers, etc, which brings more people into your shop... Sales create more jobs. You don't get more sales without reinvestment. Its kinda funny to me, that the same people complaining about the greedy rich, think that those rich people won't expand their companies, even though expansion will... drumroll please... get them bigger profits! Its pretty much common sense. VERY few companies reach the point where they can't really expand any more, so they have a surplus of cash (Microsoft being the glaring example).

And trickle down does work... that's what our entire economy is based on

Actually, the effectiveness of trickle down is hotly debated. Most economists that haven't staked their careers on it now think that it doesn't really work.

And it certainly isn't the basis of the economy.

If one reads up on the velocity of money, and buys into it, one would think that trickle up is more effective.

[statnerds]

If one reads up on the velocity of money, and buys into it, one would think that trickle up is more effective.

Then why is every socialist country broke? Assuming you mean that government giving money to those in need, at the bottom, will trickle up. Funny the 'war on poverty' has been doing that for 65+ years, how's that working out? Or is 65 years of constant poverty levels, that remain stagnant even after trillions of dollars have been spent, not enough evidence that it is a failure?

Thor - here is a a word I want to learn: Source.

I'm not saying everything you copy and paste is from a questionable or biased source, but I'm not not saying it either.

[benjy]

Then why is every socialist country broke? Assuming you mean that government giving money to those in need, at the bottom, will trickle up. Funny the 'war on poverty' has been doing that for 65+ years, how's that working out? Or is 65 years of constant poverty levels, that remain stagnant even after trillions of dollars have been spent, not enough evidence that it is a failure?

Thor - here is a a word I want to learn: Source.

I'm not saying everything you copy and paste is from a questionable or biased source, but I'm not not saying it either.

What are your definitions of broke and socialist? On a debt to GDP ratio many countries that are further left than the US are doing far better budget wise. China, Canada and Sweden just to name a few.

Your glib comment on the 'war on poverty' aside, velocity of money implies that trickle up is more effective.

[benjy]

An interesting series of articles on taxation is just about to wrap up on The Economist's site (Buttonwood's notebook). The most recent post examines taxes on corporate income as a percentage of GDP across the OECD.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/butto...ation_policy_2

[falconticket]

What are your definitions of broke and socialist? On a debt to GDP ratio many countries that are further left than the US are doing far better budget wise. China, Canada and Sweden just to name a few.

Your glib comment on the 'war on poverty' aside, velocity of money implies that trickle up is more effective.

Send us a postcard when you get there.

[frostno98]

SBR Folks talking PoliticsDumb@sses on both side of the aisle

[RubberKettle]

Capitalism works best. No other idea has created so much wealth and opportunity for one nation as capitalism has for the Untied States. This is an undeniable fact. It many not be perfect, but neither is this world.

[greeny]

i dont know what u guys talkin about, im jus here to get my points

[Roxxyfish]

good morning thanks for the extra point