[Auto Donk]

naming it the "world poker cup" now seems a bit brilliant forecasting by SBR, given Team World's impressive win this year....

Congrats to that strong lineup, that no doubt has some of the best poker players the SBR Poker Room has to offer among its ranks....

Congrats to the other teams for the hard fought battles and results, as well.... Confeds could have mailed it in, but fought back to take a lead on Canada, only to see the Canadians mount a fierce day 4 comeback to snatch 3rd....

setting all that aside, I learned a few things during the Cup, about other players, the play on sbr, and things that generally shaped the outcome of the Cup this year. I'm sure I can't be the only one.....

I'll elaborate on some of my thoughts later this weekend, once the wife and I have hit stride in the Casino over in Lake Charles.

Feel free to post up yours here, to share your insights on the cup, sbr poker play, the software, the "scandals" of the Cup, etc., so that we can all learn from your insight......

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[Optional]

Not sure where we could use anyhting learned from it.

But the finals format is good.

[Enkhbat]

The only thing comparable I can think of is on 888 poker blast, which has 4 player format and sometimes 1st and 2nd gets a payout, with 3rd and 4th get nothing depending on the spin. It is like Pokerstars spin and go but with 4 player and not always winner take all.

[bobbywaves]

I learned that someone who earned a World Cup spot fairly, can be banned from the World Cup unfairly.

[cincinnatikid513]

no comment

[sinmiedo]

It show a better player skills compare to other years and , tight play , way to tight.
Aggressive players like pbonapart, bracerman, grivas,empiremaker, jayvegas,snappermant2 and some others took advantage of it and proved again that aggressiveness has the edge in this format.
I thought that team USA would take it down from the get go, their qualifiers are the best of SBR, but team world has the consistency needed for this events. Cofeds only with dlowilly chucky was not sufficient to carry all, it s team work and needs at least 40% of 1st places like they did in day 4, however if they would run like the last day, this was over on day 3 with confeds taking at least 50 points.
Our team Canada did the best we could with new member not used to the format and some absentees cost us points, but we never felt that was an excuse to let the tournament go, we want it and give a fight for it like any other team, we came short, some one has to win.
Autodonk enthusiasm on day 1 and 2 , with his updating and comments on every game keep players commenting and following his thread by the second, kuddos to him to cheer every player of every team, from the point of view of play not for what team they belong.
Some good players did not qualify and the not to much in new blood, that I think is the purpose of the promotion, perhaps something that management will take note if they want to promote the poker site as an entry point to sports betting.

[Optional]

Autodonk enthusiasm on day 1 and 2 , with his updating and comments on every game keep players commenting and following his thread by the second, kuddos to him to cheer every player of every team, from the point of view of play not for what team they belong.

Agree. Donk was the ringmaster on the rail and made it better.

[cincinnatikid513]

i was surprised how much support and excitement each team had for the finals, if u give usa 3 teams and world only 1 not really a world cup anymore, maybe take top 40 or 48 players who qualify and let the top 4 players be team captains and pick there squad and play out the finals from there, that way u are getting the best players for the finals

[mpaschal34]

Did not get to watch too much because I was busy with work/spending the free time I did have with family. I got to see Sin take down a tourney, which is always nice. And a few other good matches.

As said by others, thanks to Autodonk for the updates throughout the tourney. Was able to follow while I was at work.

As for the future of SBR poker. If it’s a choice between the old payout structure or promos, I say we just go back to the old structure. Of course would prefer both, just not sure if it’s doable. Still hoping for that great 2018 we were teased with.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

It show a better player skills compare to other years and , tight play , way to tight.
Aggressive players like pbonapart, bracerman, grivas,empiremaker, jayvegas,snappermant2 and some others took advantage of it and proved again that aggressiveness has the edge in this format.
I thought that team USA would take it down from the get go, their qualifiers are the best of SBR, but team world has the consistency needed for this events. Cofeds only with dlowilly chucky was not sufficient to carry all, it s team work and needs at least 40% of 1st places like they did in day 4, however if they would run like the last day, this was over on day 3 with confeds taking at least 50 points.
Our team Canada did the best we could with new member not used to the format and some absentees cost us points, but we never felt that was an excuse to let the tournament go, we want it and give a fight for it like any other team, we came short, some one has to win.
Autodonk enthusiasm on day 1 and 2 , with his updating and comments on every game keep players commenting and following his thread by the second, kuddos to him to cheer every player of every team, from the point of view of play not for what team they belong.
Some good players did not qualify and the not to much in new blood, that I think is the purpose of the promotion, perhaps something that management will take note if they want to promote the poker site as an entry point to sports betting.

I like this writeup. Sinner, I've read Janda's two poker books. They're pretty good, at least above average.

Janda comments that poker is an UN-SOLVED game, and I agree. I agree in the sense that you're playing vs a human-being. In that sense, your OPPONENT can be un-predictable and play in strange ways.

There's a saying that there are two ways to win a poker-hand. 1) Make a good hand. 2) Get your opponent to lay down a better hand. Getting your opponent to lay down the better hand is huge.

I think back to the 6-max tournament I played. I can't think of one hand I grossly mis-played. But my preparation wasn't what it needed to be. I view myself as TAG, Tight-Aggressive. In this tournament, I played TOO tight. 6-max is close to half-table, so you have to beat fewer opponents. I actually should have played looser, b/c opponent ranges were wide.

Take that one step further to 4-man tables. Different game. You really need to be taking a shot at the blinds quite often. 4-man doesn't resemble full-ring. You shouldn't feel like u have to make a nutted hand to take it down.

[sportfan]

'It is what it is ' rigged chithole

[bracerman]

The overall play at SBR keeps improving, and I was rusty as hell not having played NLH tournies in a while.

[qwertvt]

For me,

Given the 4 man format, experience with the short table matters. This was my first World Cup.

It isn't comparable to a final table because of the varying stack sizes and large blinds.

I felt more comfortable the last two days and that’s when I began scoring.

It may be a coincidence but perhaps not.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Good observation, Q. 4-man table plays much differently.

I watch a good bit of tournament poker. Heads-up is even weirder. Observe the Main Event final table. L2 takes forever. Takes two big-hands for it to all get in.

[qwertvt]

Good observation, Q. 4-man table plays much differently.

I watch a good bit of tournament poker. Heads-up is even weirder. Observe the Main Event final table. L2 takes forever. Takes two big-hands for it to all get in.

Heads Up is almost an entirely different game. Interesting to watch.

[Jayvegas420]

With the exception of DLow, I enjoyed the lack of antagonistic criticism, smart-ass comments, negativity and General anger. It was nice for all the guys in the poker room to get along for a while, but it's old now. Can we get back to the trolling and personal insults please.

[BeerDog99]

As usual, I enjoyed this. Thanks to SBR for arranging this! Also, thanks to Drew, Sam9Ball and Spider for keeping the updates rolling in.

As far as format, I would suggest that the multiple ideas of adding in some sort of captains/draft be incorporated into the team formations.

As far as lessons learned. I would suggest this for food for thought by the people who complained and constantly took shots at Canada for our lack of points for making our team.

- The (poker) player population is significantly skewed to the US.
- I would suggest it is probably in the range 80-15-5 for US-World-Canada. (I might be wrong but it is obviously heavily US weighted)
- The daily format of the qualifiers is a turbo high-variance tourney.
- Independent of the format, given the US heavily outweighs the player pool, it stands to reason, many more US players will make many more cashes/points.
- Therefore it is plainly obvious that there will be higher point totals required to get into the US team(s).
- That said, even though it is turbo and high-variance, no matter the size of player pool, the qualifiers ran for long enough for the "cream to rise to the top" in all teams (especially this year when the qualifiers were based on top 8 cashes as opposed to top 12).
- That is to say, I doubt anybody seriously would argue with the top 5-10 players on all teams do deserve to be there. Especially given that when the non-US player pools were larger, there are a significant amount of the same players.(note, the US pool is a slightly different beast given the player pool is split only after the points have been earned but I believe my point still holds there).
- To be clear, I am not slighting the lower 10-12 spot players, just trying to steelman the perspective.
- With regards to the final format, there is no arguing it is a short-handed turbo tourney over a short durance.
- Therefore, there is high-variance in the outcomes.
- Without looking at the stats in depth, over the years that the World Cup format has played, there generally were not a lot of "blow-outs". I believe ever team probably has been in every place (i.e. won, second, third and fourth).
- Any time a team had a significant point total difference it came down to variance and other point in time factors.

So, in closing I would suggest the following for food for thought:

1) If all other factors remained the same (i.e. player talent, qualifier formats and length of qualifier timeframes) and the player pools were equal between teams, I believe you would probably see a very high percentage of the same players for all teams that were in the last few years.

2) If all factors remained the same same as this year with regards to player pools, teams and qualifier/finals format and the only thing that changes was how long the finals were played. I believe we would see a close distribution of team 1sts, 2nds, 3rds and 4ths. Not to say that there as some really good players in all of the teams and therefore the actual numbers might start to skew higher for teams that have the "better players" as the final tourneys were played over a longer period (i.e. to try and remove short term variances).

All of the above is to say in a long winded way (to the best of my ability to communicate my opinions), all of the complaining about lack of fairness really is not accurate and really we all should be happy that we have a near free place to gather, make friends, bet some sports, talk about sports or whatever and play poker.

Now I am sure I have mis-spoke, mis-typed and/or gotten some factor or extrapolation wrong and I look forward to a positive discussion with everybody who has an informed/logical thought/opinion on this subject.

Cheers all!

[Optional]

^^^ I like it Beer, but think you are stretching a bit to find it near fair. USA players still need to beat 2 or 3 other contenders per spot. World has to beat 1-2 other players per spot and this year Canada only had to beat about 10% of one other player.

We still get a decent finals series as Canada is top heavy on good players among the 15 or so playing.


I don't really know what to suggest to improve it. I am not sure we can without ruining it. 4 team captains and a draft is not a "world cup" and the passion will be gone.

This promo is good as it pays out a decent size prize to about 30% of regular players as well. Unlike most others that only reward the winner big.

So despite it's faults, think it is worth keeping.

[yahoonino]

the payout still sucks whe start playing Monday,,and the payout still the same,,,,300 for first,,i don't like it,,,i play but I don't like it

[BeerDog99]

^^^ I like it Beer, but think you are stretching a bit to find it near fair. USA players still need to beat 2 or 3 other contenders per spot. World has to beat 1-2 other players per spot and this year Canada only had to beat about 10% of one other player.

While I do think it is a factor given the Canada pool is so small, I would suggest it really on affects a couple of people in total as if there were more Canadians, I would suggest the top 8-10 Canadians would not change.

We still get a decent finals series as Canada is top heavy on good players among the 15 or so playing.

I agree, that essentially is my point above.

I don't really know what to suggest to improve it. I am not sure we can without ruining it. 4 team captains and a draft is not a "world cup" and the passion will be gone.

Ya, I forget the specifics of Downsouth's proposal but two points,
1) I agree just having 4 captains might skew it to a popularity contest so some control/parameters on the player pool to choose from would need to be thought out.
2) To me, nationalistic pride is less of a draw for me. Either way, I would suggest that there might be even more camaraderie with teams built from skill respect and personal affinities (i.e. friendly). That said, I know the US contingent has a more nationalistic/jingoistic lean that the rest of the world but psychologically speaking that is rooted in the team and us VS them mindset so it would probably still work nicely.

This promo is good as it pays out a decent size prize to about 30% of regular players as well. Unlike most others that only reward the winner big.

I agree.

So despite it's faults, think it is worth keeping.

I agree, I just would like the "poor US" mentality to stop because it is not positive or healthy for the future of the poker experiments here at SBR.

Cheers bud!

[ArunSh]

I agree the World Cup is worth keeping - it's certainly better than having no promotion at all, that's for darn sure!

While I agree that the draft format or something like that would not really make the event a "World Cup", I disagree though that the draft idea will cause the passion to be gone for similar reasons as BeerDog said. The passion doesn't really come from a sense of national pride or anything here - it's just more your desire to win + the team camaraderie. I don't think people get more into rooting for their team members out of loyalty due to national pride, they root for them because they are friends with them in general and teammates for the event in question.

After all, last year Auto Donk + Bobbywaves were teammates, and this year we almost had Dlowilly + Mikejamm as teammates (and there may be other interesting such pairs!). Many people in the poker forum are friendly/not friendly with other members. But that doesn't tend to stem from being from the same country as those folks, it's just getting to know them over time via chatting in the poker client and/or seeing their posts here. I for instance don't decide to be more or less friendly with someone on here because they happen to be from the US rather than some other country!

I would argue that the passion will be even higher if the draft format is done - after all, teams are formed then because they are legitimately chosen by the captain to be a part of the squad rather than the team being "forced" by whoever happens to score the best in your region. In that format, we would be less likely to have pairs like Donk/Waves who obviously would never have chosen to be on the same team as each other so in that sense it might be better from a passion standpoint - people would cheer for their fellow team members because they like them, instead of doing so because they are on the same team though they might dislike them individually (e.g. Donk/Waves again )

Anyway, I do think the draft idea would be quite fun, though I can see why SBR would have reservations with it. As stated, the World Cup is good no matter what, the Finals format definitely that the most exciting week of SBR Poker in the entire year!

Many, including myself, are naturally wondering: is there going to be a new poker promo soon? Last year we didn't have one after the World Cup, hope that won't be the case this year! But either way, would be nice to hear from SBR about that so that we know - whether it happens to be good or bad news.

[USCPHILLYGUY]

1	snapperman2	3175	17		2
2	BeerDog99	1465	13		3
3	senorsasa	1075	7		4
4	Krashman	945	15		5
5	jayvegas420	925	7		6
6	aggieshawn	855	11		7
7	sinmiedo	790	7		8
8	firekillex	680	14		9
9	imack	630	5
10	cankid	605	6
11	greyarea	325	4
12	bracerman	225

Just confused how anything thinks a promotion is remotely fair when more than half a team qualified with 7 cashes or less

[BeerDog99]

1	snapperman2	3175	17		2
2	BeerDog99	1465	13		3
3	senorsasa	1075	7		4
4	Krashman	945	15		5
5	jayvegas420	925	7		6
6	aggieshawn	855	11		7
7	sinmiedo	790	7		8
8	firekillex	680	14		9
9	imack	630	5
10	cankid	605	6
11	greyarea	325	4
12	bracerman	225

Just confused how anything thinks a promotion is remotely fair when more than half a team qualified with 7 cashes or less

I guess you did not read my post.

[bobbywaves]

Waves also learned winning $750 with a few simple clicks, to make up for my World Cup snub, is much better than winning 1,500 poker pts with a 3x roll:

[USCPHILLYGUY]

I guess you did not read my post.

honestly stopped after you said 5-10 of your teammates deserved to be there

[bobbywaves]

I guess you did not read my post.

I suffered through your long winded post & came to the same conclusion as Philly.

The only fair thing to do with Canada's pathetic number to qualify is merge them with team World, giving the heavily populated Americans 3 teams. Whoever thinks otherwise is simply narrow minded.

[Jayvegas420]

Why not four teams of Americans, and the rest of the site can rail you guys?
Add a 5th team, but call them the rebels and they can be comprised of all the mini cash artists like you Bob

[bobbywaves]

Why not four teams of Americans, and the rest of the site can rail you guys?
Add a 5th team, but call them the rebels and they can be comprised of all the cash artists like you Bob

Jay, you rarely offer anything of substance.

However, I support your suggestions.

[BeerDog99]

honestly stopped after you said 5-10 of your teammates deserved to be there

That's disappointing, I thought you might have an open mind and at least come back with a little more feedback to my argument instead of just insulting the Canadian team.

[BeerDog99]

I suffered through your long winded post & came to the same conclusion as Philly.

The only fair thing to do with Canada's pathetic number to qualify is merge them with team World, giving the heavily populated Americans 3 teams. Whoever thinks otherwise is simply narrow minded.

The only thing that really is pathetic is your constant attempts to eek out points that got you banned from the promo. That must have hurt.

I don't expect you to understand my argument but I expect Philly will.

[Auto Donk]

I agree the World Cup is worth keeping - it's certainly better than having no promotion at all, that's for darn sure!

While I agree that the draft format or something like that would not really make the event a "World Cup", I disagree though that the draft idea will cause the passion to be gone for similar reasons as BeerDog said. The passion doesn't really come from a sense of national pride or anything here - it's just more your desire to win + the team camaraderie. I don't think people get more into rooting for their team members out of loyalty due to national pride, they root for them because they are friends with them in general and teammates for the event in question.

After all, last year Auto Donk + Bobbywaves were teammates, and this year we almost had Dlowilly + Mikejamm as teammates (and there may be other interesting such pairs!). Many people in the poker forum are friendly/not friendly with other members. But that doesn't tend to stem from being from the same country as those folks, it's just getting to know them over time via chatting in the poker client and/or seeing their posts here. I for instance don't decide to be more or less friendly with someone on here because they happen to be from the US rather than some other country!

I would argue that the passion will be even higher if the draft format is done - after all, teams are formed then because they are legitimately chosen by the captain to be a part of the squad rather than the team being "forced" by whoever happens to score the best in your region. In that format, we would be less likely to have pairs like Donk/Waves who obviously would never have chosen to be on the same team as each other so in that sense it might be better from a passion standpoint - people would cheer for their fellow team members because they like them, instead of doing so because they are on the same team though they might dislike them individually (e.g. Donk/Waves again )

Anyway, I do think the draft idea would be quite fun, though I can see why SBR would have reservations with it. As stated, the World Cup is good no matter what, the Finals format definitely that the most exciting week of SBR Poker in the entire year!

Many, including myself, are naturally wondering: is there going to be a new poker promo soon? Last year we didn't have one after the World Cup, hope that won't be the case this year! But either way, would be nice to hear from SBR about that so that we know - whether it happens to be good or bad news.

i'm all for a draft, and agree that passion would still run high....

indeed, instead of no promo between now and xmas (like last year), i suggest the draft promo be done now, and hell, have it and the world cup promos..... then there'd be two weeks of the year where sbr poker and the trnys are the hot ticket item, and everyone interested as hell in the poker room.....

don't necessarily replace the world cup with the draft, figure out a way to do em both.....

give the captains some leeway, allow a free agent and trade period, allow the captains to sell players for betpoints..... I'll make sure Im a captain, sell everyone, and jerry jones it and play all 12 promo trnys myself.....

just kidding, of course, but I think both would be viable promos and generate a ton of interest.....

got back from loiuisana late tonight, will do my thoughts on the cup this year when I have time later this week.....

will sum it by saying a ton of good comments in here already, particularly sin's and beerdog's, and that at the end of the day, despite criticism, the Cup is a damn good sbr promo, primarily for the camaraderie and interpersonal relationships that develop, generating a great family feel the among the players, and giving members a tighter bond to the site and the people that frequent it.....

[bobbywaves]

The only thing that really is pathetic is your constant attempts to eek out points that got you banned from the promo. That must have hurt.

"Eek out pts," how so? I can't control what No1here or anyone else does with their poker hand, so I was obviously banned unfairly.

"Must have hurt?" Apparently you didn't read post #24.

I don't expect you to understand my argument but I expect Philly will.

Apparently you didn't read posts #22 & #25 either.

[USCPHILLYGUY]

BD relax brother. You’re one of my favorites here. Though that came off as a low blow there’s probably only 4-5 guys on that’ list I’ve even heard of so please accept my apology. I get the whole it’s a free poker site argument and do miss the banter between the poker regs but just can’t justify the time commitment anymore under the current structure. I’ll play here & there.

Always looking forward to meeting up with the Canadian crew I have met for some cards, beer & Wolfgang Puck Pizza! Sin & yourself are stand up guys

[chico2663]

if bobby waves didn't play ....is it really a world cup event? Not a waves fan. He likes to pick on us fat guys with his glories of swiming. That shit about fat people floating is a fukking lie. But he does seem to know when to hold them sbr style. I didn't watch one hand because it isn't the same without DONK insulting bobbo. It would be like watching archie bunker without the meat head.

[chico2663]

I think their are more people with spanish blood than canadians here. I think we should have a team from there. Hell i would of been 3rd on that team called Canada with me missing tourneys for drs visits. I m taking 3 months next year visiting the philippines, tawian and couple other countries