[thechaoz]

To everyone complaining: IT'S FREE

Shouldn't be too tough to get top 100. I plan to go all-in blind a lot and still get in

It's not free. It's your valuable time and your getting older everyday, time you will never get back. We pay to be pros, so additionally, it's not free.

[convick]

You're mentally retarded. I can't help you.

Break it down for me you dumb piece of shit . How is flipping and jamming max pots every 8-10 seconds not generate more rake then playing 30 second to a minute and a half pots that don't even end up as all ins?

Please, let's here the math. How does that go? How does that generate more rake playing regular poker then flipping. I'm dying to hear.

I've never seen flippers doing more than 20-25 per hand. The few times I tried it probably played less than 20 hands and the other guy up a hundred or so conveniently said they were done rolling -over.

Maybe some spend hours flipping, just never seen it myself.

[Slanina]

Awesome promo. Horrible change to daily.

But I will stick it out. I work from home as a 2nd job and works perfect for poker. Good luck, everyone!

On a side note, it’ll be tough to swallow playing 1.5 hours for 20 points only to deal with RO and quite simply lose it within 2 minutes or your very first hand you play. Yikes!

[Slanina]

10 points says I get 9th the first day.

[bobbywaves]

Jesus penetrating christ, you guys are unreal. I'll give you a pass because it seems you may have missed some context.

The reason they don't care about flipping (they don't have sbr poker for rake alone obviously), is because it is way more hands per hour, and for the most part, more rake.

So if I'm jamming 50 a pot and my opponent is as well, that's 100 points a pot , at a very quick pace mind you. The average hand on a table playing regular poker (assuming a 25/50 table) is def not 100 points and it doesn't take 8 seconds like a flip. It's probably a minute to a minute and a half on average.

SBR doesn't care how you win or lose your points. Regular poker or flips. Someone is winning the hand, someone is losing, and they are getting their rake either way. That's why they have never banned it, nor can they. It's part of the game.

It's like saying let's ban guys who hit on 19 at the blackjack table. It may be dumb, but it's part of the game.

You're correct about flipping & rake, don't mind these clowns Rudy & DullAngles.

[brooks85]

trying to attract new people in a dying competition(poker is shrinking, not an exaggeration) isn't a good business model.



SBR want new people?... there is this thing called E-sports....and guess what... people gamble on it... and it's going make the world of poker look like a bingo hall.


sbr would be a lot bigger if they listened to me like when I offered them to get in on fantasy sports with me... their loss!

[reigle9]

i've seen e-sports listed on dimes for years and never known a single person to mention it

[brooks85]

i've seen e-sports listed on dimes for years and never known a single person to mention it

I've lost count how many people I've heard mention it which is why it's growing like wildfire and multi-billion dollar companies are planning various kinds of new tournaments.

The fact is young people are not going to poker, they are going to e-sports. If SBR wants to grow they need to focus on what's actually growing.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Jesus penetrating christ, you guys are unreal. I'll give you a pass because it seems you may have missed some context.

The reason they don't care about flipping (they don't have sbr poker for rake alone obviously), is because it is way more hands per hour, and for the most part, more rake.

So if I'm jamming 50 a pot and my opponent is as well, that's 100 points a pot , at a very quick pace mind you. The average hand on a table playing regular poker (assuming a 25/50 table) is def not 100 points and it doesn't take 8 seconds like a flip. It's probably a minute to a minute and a half on average.

SBR doesn't care how you win or lose your points. Regular poker or flips. Someone is winning the hand, someone is losing, and they are getting their rake either way. That's why they have never banned it, nor can they. It's part of the game.

It's like saying let's ban guys who hit on 19 at the blackjack table. It may be dumb, but it's part of the game.

Presumably, SBR poker exists to encourage enough people to play poker at SBR to reach a critical mass; from that position, SBR would have better business options (sponsoring, a model that was point-profitable, etc). Flipping doesn't do anything to further their goals; getting people on the table and some number of hands per hour is irrelevant when it doesn't encourage people to play actual poker.

At a normal site with a profitable business model, they wouldn't care if you flipped. SBR giving you free points and only making you rake away a small percentage of them is the opposite of profit though; it's an incentive to get people playing poker, and flipping doesn't meet that goal. The best guesses for why they haven't banned it are that it would take a decent amount of effort to enforce, and they probably hoped not to make a big deal out of it and hope that a poker-playing community would still evolve somehow. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, for a reason that isn't flipping but is related: most people who play here are only doing so because SBR runs huge overlay tournaments which are virtually free. There's probably no more than 20 of us who would play with actual points and not free tournament winnings, and even fewer who have the time for it. The rest either don't care enough to do so, aren't good enough to do so, or both.

Given the current setup and rules, flipping isn't illegal, but it's certainly against the spirit of why they hand out poker points. Should that keep people from flipping? Probably not...but if nothing else, it puts flippers in company with people who are unable to win at cash games and have to resort to losing the least by flipping (I don't think any names need to be mentioned there!)

[reigle9]

I've lost count how many people I've heard mention it which is why it's growing like wildfire and multi-billion dollar companies are planning various kinds of new tournaments.

The fact is young people are not going to poker, they are going to e-sports. If SBR wants to grow they need to focus on what's actually growing.

young people are broke, not even broke, in debt 40k a year to study art history and participate in brain dead marches

you think all those brokedikk lib kids in the trump bashing threads have two nickles to rub together?

[SBR Drew]

Presumably, SBR poker exists to encourage enough people to play poker at SBR to reach a critical mass; from that position, SBR would have better business options (sponsoring, a model that was point-profitable, etc). Flipping doesn't do anything to further their goals; getting people on the table and some number of hands per hour is irrelevant when it doesn't encourage people to play actual poker.

At a normal site with a profitable business model, they wouldn't care if you flipped. SBR giving you free points and only making you rake away a small percentage of them is the opposite of profit though; it's an incentive to get people playing poker, and flipping doesn't meet that goal. The best guesses for why they haven't banned it are that it would take a decent amount of effort to enforce, and they probably hoped not to make a big deal out of it and hope that a poker-playing community would still evolve somehow. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, for a reason that isn't flipping but is related: most people who play here are only doing so because SBR runs huge overlay tournaments which are virtually free. There's probably no more than 20 of us who would play with actual points and not free tournament winnings, and even fewer who have the time for it. The rest either don't care enough to do so, aren't good enough to do so, or both.

Given the current setup and rules, flipping isn't illegal, but it's certainly against the spirit of why they hand out poker points. Should that keep people from flipping? Probably not...but if nothing else, it puts flippers in company with people who are unable to win at cash games and have to resort to losing the least by flipping (I don't think any names need to be mentioned there!)

Flipping has always been frowned upon and we are researching with ways to address the issue. This is defo not in the true Poker spirit (Flipping I am referring to).

[Triple_D_Bet]

Flipping has always been frowned upon and we are researching with ways to address the issue. This is defo not in the true Poker spirit (Flipping I am referring to).

I agree, and would love to see a change, even if it turns the poker community into even more of a ghost town...gotta start somewhere, and the giveaway model doesn't seem to be doing the trick!

[no1here]

Not True! Flipping was welcome as I was quite against it early on. If you want to stop it just say it!

Flipping has always been frowned upon and we are researching with ways to address the issue. This is defo not in the true Poker spirit (Flipping I am referring to).

[no1here]

Flipping is a bad habit to put the players into. SBR needs to lead by example!

[SharpAngles]

Jesus penetrating christ, you guys are unreal. I'll give you a pass because it seems you may have missed some context.

The reason they don't care about flipping (they don't have sbr poker for rake alone obviously), is because it is way more hands per hour, and for the most part, more rake.

So if I'm jamming 50 a pot and my opponent is as well, that's 100 points a pot , at a very quick pace mind you. The average hand on a table playing regular poker (assuming a 25/50 table) is def not 100 points and it doesn't take 8 seconds like a flip. It's probably a minute to a minute and a half on average.

SBR doesn't care how you win or lose your points. Regular poker or flips. Someone is winning the hand, someone is losing, and they are getting their rake either way. That's why they have never banned it, nor can they. It's part of the game.

It's like saying let's ban guys who hit on 19 at the blackjack table. It may be dumb, but it's part of the game.

I laugh at you for thinking SBR is looking to profit from poker rake and your response is to tell me how rake works?

They want a community that will grow in numbers so they can make money from traffic and advertising, they dgaf about raking pokerpoints.

Bottom line flipping is cowardly, lazy and against the spirit of what SBR is trying to accomplish. Shari has made it clear in the past and SBR Drew just made that clear but is in a tricky spot because it takes time and resources to get rid of flipping that he could be spending on other things.

[SharpAngles]

Presumably, SBR poker exists to encourage enough people to play poker at SBR to reach a critical mass; from that position, SBR would have better business options (sponsoring, a model that was point-profitable, etc). Flipping doesn't do anything to further their goals; getting people on the table and some number of hands per hour is irrelevant when it doesn't encourage people to play actual poker.

At a normal site with a profitable business model, they wouldn't care if you flipped. SBR giving you free points and only making you rake away a small percentage of them is the opposite of profit though; it's an incentive to get people playing poker, and flipping doesn't meet that goal. The best guesses for why they haven't banned it are that it would take a decent amount of effort to enforce, and they probably hoped not to make a big deal out of it and hope that a poker-playing community would still evolve somehow. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, for a reason that isn't flipping but is related: most people who play here are only doing so because SBR runs huge overlay tournaments which are virtually free. There's probably no more than 20 of us who would play with actual points and not free tournament winnings, and even fewer who have the time for it. The rest either don't care enough to do so, aren't good enough to do so, or both.

Given the current setup and rules, flipping isn't illegal, but it's certainly against the spirit of why they hand out poker points. Should that keep people from flipping? Probably not...but if nothing else, it puts flippers in company with people who are unable to win at cash games and have to resort to losing the least by flipping (I don't think any names need to be mentioned there!)

Post Nomination

You are only allowed to nominate a post once every 20 minutes

[brooks85]

young people are broke, not even broke, in debt 40k a year to study art history and participate in brain dead marches

you think all those brokedikk lib kids in the trump bashing threads have two nickles to rub together?

lol young people have little or no income but they are not THAT broke ha


and yes, a lot of their money comes from credit or even spending federal loan money. It's going to get spent somewhere tho, sbr might as well capture some of it and this is just the beginning. It's only going to get bigger.

[ArunSh]

Presumably, SBR poker exists to encourage enough people to play poker at SBR to reach a critical mass; from that position, SBR would have better business options (sponsoring, a model that was point-profitable, etc). Flipping doesn't do anything to further their goals; getting people on the table and some number of hands per hour is irrelevant when it doesn't encourage people to play actual poker.

At a normal site with a profitable business model, they wouldn't care if you flipped. SBR giving you free points and only making you rake away a small percentage of them is the opposite of profit though; it's an incentive to get people playing poker, and flipping doesn't meet that goal. The best guesses for why they haven't banned it are that it would take a decent amount of effort to enforce, and they probably hoped not to make a big deal out of it and hope that a poker-playing community would still evolve somehow. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, for a reason that isn't flipping but is related: most people who play here are only doing so because SBR runs huge overlay tournaments which are virtually free. There's probably no more than 20 of us who would play with actual points and not free tournament winnings, and even fewer who have the time for it. The rest either don't care enough to do so, aren't good enough to do so, or both.

Given the current setup and rules, flipping isn't illegal, but it's certainly against the spirit of why they hand out poker points. Should that keep people from flipping? Probably not...but if nothing else, it puts flippers in company with people who are unable to win at cash games and have to resort to losing the least by flipping (I don't think any names need to be mentioned there!)

Great post Triple - I think this is spot on. I've tried to make the same point myself several times, but those in favor of flipping (like thechaoz + bobbywaves) keep saying how flipping doesn't hurt SBR at all from a rake perspective. While that might be true, that clearly isn't the point at all - this is not a poker room where players are buying in with their own $/points, they are playing with the house's $ 95% of the time.

I just fear that those who keep speaking up in favor of flipping being allowed are missing the big picture here - they just want what is easiest for themselves. That's not to say that I think flipping necessarily is the solution to the problems here (maybe it will help - I don't know). But if it does help - those who keep speaking up in favor of still allowing it are again missing the big picture. If poker goes away entirely because things like flipping keep it from being a good investment for SBR, then who will that be good for?

[thechaoz]

I laugh at you for thinking SBR is looking to profit from poker rake and your response is to tell me how rake works?

They want a community that will grow in numbers so they can make money from traffic and advertising, they dgaf about raking pokerpoints.

Bottom line flipping is cowardly, lazy and against the spirit of what SBR is trying to accomplish. Shari has made it clear in the past and SBR Drew just made that clear but is in a tricky spot because it takes time and resources to get rid of flipping that he could be spending on other things.

Cowardly? Terrorist are cowardly. Catholic Priests molesting boys are cowardly. Again, for the 3rd time, I know (maybe caps will work better?) I KNOW THEY AREN'T LOOKING TO PROFIT FROM RAKE.

Lazy? Some people have lives and better things to do bud, plain and simple again. If you have that kind of time I want your life (or wait, maybe I don't?)

You can't program not flipping into software, it's impossible. They mock us and won't even invest in a decent rng. It would take an advanced detection system that even the riches of sites like stars have no interest in paying for. It literally is never going to happen, so give up the fight now. Even then, with plausible deniability, "I thought he was bluffing so I shoved 6 8 sooted, etc


I can agree with you possibly about the spirit. It's just like everything we watch or do, it's part of the game , and just has to be tolerated. I frankly don't see many flippers so I don't think it's as rampant as everyone thinks it is. If you really want to play an actual game of poker, just deposit on many of the sites that accept US players. Or go to your nearby casino. Problem solved. You won't have a problem then.

[reigle9]

comparing the world's biggest problems to sbr faggotry, probably wasn't the best comparison

[thechaoz]

Presumably, SBR poker exists to encourage enough people to play poker at SBR to reach a critical mass; from that position, SBR would have better business options (sponsoring, a model that was point-profitable, etc). Flipping doesn't do anything to further their goals; getting people on the table and some number of hands per hour is irrelevant when it doesn't encourage people to play actual poker.

At a normal site with a profitable business model, they wouldn't care if you flipped. SBR giving you free points and only making you rake away a small percentage of them is the opposite of profit though; it's an incentive to get people playing poker, and flipping doesn't meet that goal. The best guesses for why they haven't banned it are that it would take a decent amount of effort to enforce, and they probably hoped not to make a big deal out of it and hope that a poker-playing community would still evolve somehow. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened, for a reason that isn't flipping but is related: most people who play here are only doing so because SBR runs huge overlay tournaments which are virtually free. There's probably no more than 20 of us who would play with actual points and not free tournament winnings, and even fewer who have the time for it. The rest either don't care enough to do so, aren't good enough to do so, or both.

Given the current setup and rules, flipping isn't illegal, but it's certainly against the spirit of why they hand out poker points. Should that keep people from flipping? Probably not...but if nothing else, it puts flippers in company with people who are unable to win at cash games and have to resort to losing the least by flipping (I don't think any names need to be mentioned there!)

All our years bud and I've never disagreed with you, possibly until now.

1. Firstly they aren't "free" As I stated previously, we pay to be pros. We visit the site and click links, sign up for various sponsors which gives them money. Users post most of the content on the site which drives traffic which increases ad revenue.

2. I am confused on how having running table games vs people flipping would change the dynamics of the profit margin and sponsorships. They would advertise to a site "We have x amount of active players" Not necessarily what those active players may be doing on the tables.

3. They will never ban it, plain and simple. They can't. You'd have to have a nearly full time person monitoring the tables. Not happening

4. I've play with actual points now, my rollover is finally complete after months of catching up, but I know what you are saying, most people rollover and bounce. I wouldn't even put it at 20 people who use real points to play.

5. You're trying to poke the bear and trigger with the last paragraph, which is unlike you. We don't do it because we don't want to play, but it takes an enormous amount of time to rollover thousands of points and it's an effective and efficient system. It makes the mob mad, but it works.

"Puts us in that company". If you ever browse players talk and give a shit what these dumb penetrates think of you, you need to re-evaluate your life.

6. Delete some private messages for God's sake

[thechaoz]

comparing the world's biggest problems to sbr faggotry, probably wasn't the best comparison

I've been here a long time and am done as speaking with reason. Only way to be a true SBR warrior is to go full retard, so I will.

I couldn't beat em, so I joined em. I did hold out almost 9 years though. Good run

[thechaoz]

Great post Triple - I think this is spot on. I've tried to make the same point myself several times, but those in favor of flipping (like thechaoz + bobbywaves) keep saying how flipping doesn't hurt SBR at all from a rake perspective. While that might be true, that clearly isn't the point at all - this is not a poker room where players are buying in with their own $/points, they are playing with the house's $ 95% of the time.

I just fear that those who keep speaking up in favor of flipping being allowed are missing the big picture here - they just want what is easiest for themselves. That's not to say that I think flipping necessarily is the solution to the problems here (maybe it will help - I don't know). But if it does help - those who keep speaking up in favor of still allowing it are again missing the big picture. If poker goes away entirely because things like flipping keep it from being a good investment for SBR, then who will that be good for?

I'm not pro flipping, but I'm also not against it. If you want to use it as an way to churn out a ton of rollover, so be it.

You won't have to worry about me anymore, so one less flipper on the block. Rollover done. Just logging in and getting my daily points till my membership expires is Sept
I don't see how SBR is "trying" to promote poker. They took away the fall contests for another betting contests, the cut their prizes in this contest, but mostly importantly, basically crippled the dailies which is frankly where most people really get their points. In my eyes, it looks like a business decision has been made to "ramp it down" and maybe let it die.I'm not pro flipping, but I'm also not against it. If you want to use it as an way to churn out a ton of rollover, so be it.

You won't have to worry about me anymore, so one less flipper on the block. Rollover done. Just logging in and getting my daily points till my membership expires is Sept

[Optional]

You're correct about flipping & rake, don't mind these clowns Rudy & DullAngles.

No he is not correct.

See below as you dont believe me.

Flipping has always been frowned upon and we are researching with ways to address the issue. This is defo not in the true Poker spirit (Flipping I am referring to).

Drew, this Bobbywaves character has promoted the idea of flipping and encouraged others to join in and taken great enjoyment in saying over and again he doesn't care that so many others have asked him not to so overtly damage the program.

Easy start to reducing the flippers would be to simply remove his access totally.

[SBR Drew]

Thanks Optional ....flipping is not playing in Pokers truest form until there is a winner. The true spirit of the game is until there is a winner decided.

[dtp]

Thanks Optional ....flipping is not playing in Pokers truest form until there is a winner. The true spirit of the game is until there is a winner decided.

Drew you sound like a nice guy. But how much have you really played poker? Or truly know about the game?

To me again from almost everything you say it sounds like someone who kinda knows the basics and general rules, but is pretty clueless to the real details


I'm against flipping too, but flipping does play to a winner -- they just let pure luck of the cards decide the winner. There is no skill involved and it saves those flippers a lot of time completing their rollovers without actually having to make any poker decisions

[bobbywaves]

No he is not correct.

See below as you dont believe me.




Drew, this Bobbywaves character has promoted the idea of flipping and encouraged others to join in and taken great enjoyment in saying over and again he doesn't care that so many others have asked him not to so overtly damage the program.

Easy start to reducing the flippers would be to simply remove his access totally.

Chaoz statements were correct, nothing you post will change my opinion.

Remove my access on what grounds exactly, because you don't like me? As you know, it was clearly stated flipping is ok.

If & when there's a change to the flipping policy, I'll abide by it. Hard to flip moving forward, when prize distribution places & pts will be drastically cut.

Until there's a change in the current flipping policy, putting me on blast for doing something that's allowed was simply uncalled for.

[SBR Drew]

Drew you sound like a nice guy. But how much have you really played poker? Or truly know about the game?

To me again from almost everything you say it sounds like someone who kinda knows the basics and general rules, but is pretty clueless to the real details


I'm against flipping too, but flipping does play to a winner -- they just let pure luck of the cards decide the winner. There is no skill involved and it saves those flippers a lot of time completing their rollovers without actually having to make any poker decisions

I understand your view dtp. I am a poker player and have been in a few final tables. It is frowned upon because the games integrity is at stake if flipping is done frequently. Flipping in online poker is when two or more players agree to go all-in preflop with whichever two cards are dealt to them. This must be agreed upon before the pocket cards are seen.

[daneblazer]

In a round about way, we took care of the flipping problem by making cash games obsolete

[dtp]

I understand your view dtp. I am a poker player and have been in a few final tables. It is frowned upon because the games integrity is at stake if flipping is done frequently. Flipping in online poker is when two or more players agree to go all-in preflop with whichever two cards are dealt to them. This must be agreed upon before the pocket cards are seen.

It's blatantly obvious now Drew....So much of this post is just rubbish or not even close to the point

Flipping being frowned upon has nothing to do with poker's integrity

These SBR flippers do things differently....they lower their variance by not going all in, but instead putting in a set amount preflop and then checking it down no matter what


Cute how SBR admin can edit posts without the post saying it was edited too....never knew that until now.....but even your edited post doesn't make much sense from before but this last one makes even less

I'm really not trying to bash here, but come on.....don't insult our intelligence here Drew....just be honest please

[Optional]

Drew you sound like a nice guy. But how much have you really played poker? Or truly know about the game?

To me again from almost everything you say it sounds like someone who kinda knows the basics and general rules, but is pretty clueless to the real details


I'm against flipping too, but flipping does play to a winner -- they just let pure luck of the cards decide the winner. There is no skill involved and it saves those flippers a lot of time completing their rollovers without actually having to make any poker decisions

SBR Forum said it was fine to do like that, without the settling up.

I don't mean to sound like I am attacking anyone who has been doing it. Most of you just do it and dont say anything. My objection to Bobbbywaves was his constant promotion of the idea.

[Optional]

Cute how SBR admin can edit posts without the post saying it was edited too....never knew that until now.....

Settle down inspector clouseau. It's the same for anyone who edits their posts within 60 seconds of posting.

[Optional]

Chaoz statements were correct, nothing you post will change my opinion.

Remove my access on what grounds exactly, because you don't like me? As you know, it was clearly stated flipping is ok.

If & when there's a change to the flipping policy, I'll abide by it. Hard to flip moving forward, when prize distribution places & pts will be drastically cut.

Until there's a change in the current flipping policy, putting me on blast for doing something that's allowed was simply uncalled for.

Drew told you what SBR thinks. You don't get a say in that!


And it's not that I don't like you Bobby. I just do not like what you do with this.

I don't think I've said a bad word about you unless it was on this particular issue.

[SBR Forum]

It's blatantly obvious now Drew....So much of this post is just rubbish or not even close to the point

Flipping being frowned upon has nothing to do with poker's integrity

These SBR flippers do things differently....they lower their variance by not going all in, but instead putting in a set amount preflop and then checking it down no matter what


I'm really not trying to bash here, but come on.....don't insult our intelligence here Drew....just be honest please

Hi dtp,

We appreciate your feedback. I think we all agree that coasting through rollovers detracts from the activity of ring games, and the flipping scenario you described is arguably even worse. It is also discouraging to newbies trying to sit at a table when two guys sit out because they're just breezing through rollover instead of playing a normal game.

[BigOrange]

Poker was good here from May 2015 through about the end of 2016.

The cash games were good with me, Bite, Triple, Tat, SteveK, Milertime, Sin, Beerdog, Rudy when he wasn't point broke, Optional and a few others playing 2/4, 3/6, 5/10 every night. All of these guys would play whether they had rollovers or not. These players would buy in with full buy ins at least 2-3 times and the games were good.

Since then, half of the above mentioned players have quit playing or they just show up with a rollover and try to clear it and run. Most of the forum either flips or plays in the split pot O8 game to clear their rollovers and leave.

I haven't cared about the daily tournament or promos because I haven't needed them to generate points like most of the guys here. I could generate all I want/need in the cash games until they dried up.

I enjoy beating up on the cash games while I am watching TV at night so I hope we can get them going again but as long as the majority of our current Poker players are dependent on daily tournaments prizes to have enough points to sit down and play the cash games, it is going to keep dying. Short stacking and flipping have definitely had a negative effect on the cash games.

I would like to see Flipping banned and the minimum buy in raised to 50 big blinds. Also I would like to see the 5/10 table return.

Drew I don't see an issue with the new Promo and it's format. Like I said I don't need the Daily tournaments to generate points anyway and I like the fact that the Promo is giving out some cash. I don't know if I'll play enough dailies to qualify but I appreciate that you guys having the Promo going. Hopefully you will listen to the few guys here that are "real" poker players and the structure for the final tournament will be better than the past ones where it was an all-in shove fest after 20 minutes of play because of the bad structure.