[hhsilver]

Rollover started in the summer of 2011 , almost a year after poker started here, Oringinally trny winnings were credited by a mod by hand. No such thing as poker pts or rollover. ( just a little historical info for those who weren't here )

I know there are some real all stars here who hate the idea of flipping to achieve rollover. I respect their opinions.

Here's why I flip. As I've said , I never played hold em anywhere but here. From the beginning the tourneys were fun for me, but the ring games for rollover were not. It was taking a very long time to do rolls at the small stake tables. To me, the ring games and trnys are quite different - requiring different skillls, strategies, and levels of patience. Playing with patience and trying to do rollover - well they just don't go together. It didn't seem logical to have to do rollover in a completely different setting than the one in which the pts were won. As I later discoverd , some top players felt the same way.

About a year after rollover started , I would typically have 40 or more cashes to roll. I remember that when I was introduced to flipping , I had 44 cashes for ~6k in the poker cashier. In fact , I had learned the hard way about the use em or lose em six month rule for rollover. I kept a record on paper of my cashes and rollover results. One day I noticed a 600 pt cash was gone. Luckily, when I contacted the staff, Lou ( this was back when Lou was Lou ) kindly gave me a one time dispensation from that rule and returmed the 600, with a new date and 6 more month to get to it..

In the summer of 2012 a top player here taught me about flipping and I joined what was then a small community of flippers. I was hooked. The number of cashes to be rolled diminished relatively quickly. The number of flippers gradually increased. As I said in another post, I've flipped with about 20 others and I would imagine some of the flippers I knew flipped with others I'm not aware of.

I'm sorry flp haters. Call me scaredy cat or wussy if you will. But it works for me - and apparently many others - some of them among the 'stars' here.

I emphasize that it is not a pts collusion thing. In any session you can easy lose or win many pts at 20 per flip. What made it appealing was the time saving compared to, for me, small stakes ring games - and that's with out the extra benefit described below.

After a awhile, we noticed that in omaha if the big stack shoved first and was called by a smaller stack, the big stack amount was credited toward rollover for that player. We wondered how long it would last. Surely it would be changed. As far as I know nobody ever reported it. It continued.

We had liked shoving situations anyway because A) it was more fun to see each others cards pre flop and B) we didn't have to keep clicking 'check' . So it was hard to not benefit from the "bug". Anyway , all hands were not like this -- sometimes very few. When both stacks were over 20 , it was bet 20 and check.

(see next post )

[hhsilver]

Hockey claimed I folded becase I didn;t like my hole cards. He started "yelling" cheater this, cheater that over and over and over. I tried to explain why I folded but every time I started to type into chat, a barrage of his cheater posts filled the screen. He saiid he would make a thread - he did. I later looked up the time in hand history. It was 11 minutes from the start of the hand til the posting of the thread -- 11 minutes of constant yelling and not letting me explain.

Here's why I folded. It had nothing to do with hole cards. It was a reflex. It was what I would have done with any of my flipping friends, and what all of them would have done , after a "mistake". In that split second I forgot Hockey wasn't a flipping friend and this was new to him. I had told him to let me shove. When he didn't , I reacted, without thinking, the way I would have reacted with any of the regular flippers.

Hockey, I'm sorry. I see why you were mad. But I wish you had let me explain what happened.

[bobbywaves]

Your reasons to flip are valid, my sentiments exactly. No question flipping is faster with a greater % of rolls being completed this way. Contrary to what Tripe will have you believe, as our ROI's speak for themselves quite frankly. Bottom line, anyone who values their time flips to complete rolls.

Regarding your fold vs. Hockey, I don't understand your "reflex after a mistake" explanation. As there's obviously no place for folding while flipping. The only fairly reasonable explanation would be you clicked fold by accident, but you're not even claiming that.

[bobbywaves]

With that said, I would flip rolls with you....But if you fold once, I'll obviously be done with you.

[Triple_D_Bet]

Seems like a pretty legit explanation hh, thanks for clarifying. I don't think most people have a problem with flipping itself, or think it's cheating, collusion etc; if you're not confident about your ring game play, flipping is certainly a safer alternative. The only objection I and others have is with the small minority (currently just 1 delusional poster) who can't admit his lack of ability to play ring and believes flipping is more profitable, despite earning fewer points from it

I've helped people flip through rollovers before, and folding when one of us did something wrong has happened, and was/is the right thing to do imo. I can't speak to hockey's experience as I've never even come close to being "scammed" flipping (and I honestly don't think there's anyone out there looking to do so), but you folding when he didn't follow instructions seems perfectly reasonable. Hockey does get a bit heated too, so 11 minutes is completely believable!

Thanks again for the explanation, you're still one of the good ones in my book

[TheCentaur]

Rollover started in the summer of 2011 , almost a year after poker started here, Oringinally trny winnings were credited by a mod by hand. No such thing as poker pts or rollover. ( just a little historical info for those who weren't here )

I know there are some real all stars here who hate the idea of flipping to achieve rollover. I respect their opinions.

Here's why I flip. As I've said , I never played hold em anywhere but here. From the beginning the tourneys were fun for me, but the ring games for rollover were not. It was taking a very long time to do rolls at the small stake tables. To me, the ring games and trnys are quite different - requiring different skillls, strategies, and levels of patience. Playing with patience and trying to do rollover - well they just don't go together. It didn't seem logical to have to do rollover in a completely different setting than the one in which the pts were won. As I later discoverd , some top players felt the same way.

About a year after rollover started , I would typically have 40 or more cashes to roll. I remember that when I was introduced to flipping , I had 44 cashes for ~6k in the poker cashier. In fact , I had learned the hard way about the use em or lose em six month rule for rollover. I kept a record on paper of my cashes and rollover results. One day I noticed a 600 pt cash was gone. Luckily, when I contacted the staff, Lou ( this was back when Lou was Lou ) kindly gave me a one time dispensation from that rule and returmed the 600, with a new date and 6 more month to get to it..

In the summer of 2012 a top player here taught me about flipping and I joined what was then a small community of flippers. I was hooked. The number of cashes to be rolled diminished relatively quickly. The number of flippers gradually increased. As I said in another post, I've flipped with about 20 others and I would imagine some of the flippers I knew flipped with others I'm not aware of.

I'm sorry flp haters. Call me scaredy cat or wussy if you will. But it works for me - and apparently many others - some of them among the 'stars' here.

I emphasize that it is not a pts collusion thing. In any session you can easy lose or win many pts at 20 per flip. What made it appealing was the time saving compared to, for me, small stakes ring games - and that's with out the extra benefit described below.

After a awhile, we noticed that in omaha if the big stack shoved first and was called by a smaller stack, the big stack amount was credited toward rollover for that player. We wondered how long it would last. Surely it would be changed. As far as I know nobody ever reported it. It continued.

We had liked shoving situations anyway because A) it was more fun to see each others cards pre flop and B) we didn't have to keep clicking 'check' . So it was hard to not benefit from the "bug". Anyway , all hands were not like this -- sometimes very few. When both stacks were over 20 , it was bet 20 and check.

(see next post )

When I hit "the summer of 2012" paragraph I just started laughing. Something about it reminded me of a somber documentary or a case files tv program but it's about flipping for SBR poker points

HH you don't have to explain, Hackey216 is the biggest poker villain in the SBRdom. The barrage of chats are what's known as "turbo chatting", one of Hackey's villain powers along with daily compounding quotes of pts won from you and just a generally delusional way of life.

[brainfreeze]

I didn't even know what flipping was... Sat down at a Omaha table, people going all in I call, won, next hand I fold, they sit out. Didn't mean to cheat, I guess, I didn't even know how it worked. Flipping to me means you've giving up on playing poker and are now just rolling points, I like the game, still wouldn't mind flipping once in a while, nothing against it.

[Triple_D_Bet]

When I hit "the summer of 2012" paragraph I just started laughing. Something about it reminded me of a somber documentary or a case files tv program but it's about flipping for SBR poker points

HH you don't have to explain, Hackey216 is the biggest poker villain in the SBRdom. The barrage of chats are what's known as "turbo chatting", one of Hackey's villain powers along with daily compounding quotes of pts won from you and just a generally delusional way of life.

Just browsed some hockey threads from early last year, man those were good. Would like to see hockey vs deem grudge match heads up, both the play and the chat afterwards would be awesome

[Optional]

The Omaha tables havnt been fixed yet. It was supposed to be left offline last weekend until it is, but wasn't.

I don't know when or how long it will be until it is fixed but if you want it to stay online in the mean time just do the right thing.

If you are going to flip there, do it the regular way. 20 each or whatever blind. Don't work together to exploit the loophole on purpose.

[Optional]

And for HHsilver.

You talk like you have some right to keep all poker points without risk.

SBR invests a lot of money into the poker promotion, because it wants it to grow. Part of that plan is to encourage new poker players (like you and me) to play those points in ring games to increase the overall activity. And to see us learn how to play and maybe graduate to playing cash games.

Hoarding your points so you had 40 unrolled cashes for more than 6 months and only ever risking them when you found a way to cheat is just a parasitic attitude. Like I said in the other thread, congrats n being so clever. But stop trying to act like you have integrity or are anything more than a drain on the rest of the poker community here.

And just so you understand the reality. Flipping is collusion as you are agreeing to play a certain way beforehand. SBR tolerates it because it would be too much time and pain to police. Don't kid yourself that you would last on any cash poker site playing that way for any reason.

Your little group was cheating the system with your big stack push pre-play plans. If you can't accept and understand that I can only assume you haven't learned and will take a shot at the next angle you spot too.

[Triple_D_Bet]

And for HHsilver.

You talk like you have some right to keep all poker points without risk.

SBR invests a lot of money into the poker promotion, because it wants it to grow. Part of that plan is to encourage new poker players (like you and me) to play those points in ring games to increase the overall activity. And to see us learn how to play and maybe graduate to playing cash games.

Hoarding your points so you had 40 unrolled cashes for more than 6 months and only ever risking them when you found a way to cheat is just a parasitic attitude. Like I said in the other thread, congrats n being so clever. But stop trying to act like you have integrity or are anything more than a drain on the rest of the poker community here.

And just so you understand the reality. Flipping is collusion as you are agreeing to play a certain way beforehand. SBR tolerates it because it would be too much time and pain to police. Don't kid yourself that you would last on any cash poker site playing that way for any reason.

Your little group was cheating the system with your big stack push pre-play plans. If you can't accept and understand that I can only assume you haven't learned and will take a shot at the next angle you spot too.

Real poker sites don't care at all about flipping opti; SBR is unique in that it's rollover is substantially different than bonus requirements. Real money poker sites set up their bonuses that they rake more than the amount they're paying out, so they're not particular about how that raked amount is achieved. Several poker sites actually have actually offered one-hand flip tournaments! Even on heads up ring tables, I don't think there's any fear of being accused of collusion, as there is no benefit (the site rakes more than it pays out in almost every situation).

SBR having different rollover requirements that are more arbitrary (instead of tied to recovering the "cost" of the points) throws a wrench in the works and makes it unique. Throw in the fact that it's a prize that's awarded for skill and not just for playing through, and the whole thing gets pretty ambiguous in my opinion.

If SBR wants to take a stand on it or believes it to be collusion, they should do two things imo: 1) award tourney winnings as part betpoints, part poker points which have to be played through and raked to be awarded and (more importantly) 2) pay more attention to the poker community so it doesn't collapse. This would remove the incentive for flipping as flippers would have no statistical advantage. If they did that, it would only be fair to add some other format to clear the rollover (like SNG tourneys) so people with different playing styles can enjoy it or mix it up at their choice.

For the record I'm cool with the way things are as I enjoy both tournament and ring games, but in fairness, I don't think flipping could be called collusion under the circumstances.

[brainfreeze]

Real poker sites don't care at all about flipping opti; SBR is unique in that it's rollover is substantially different than bonus requirements. Real money poker sites set up their bonuses that they rake more than the amount they're paying out, so they're not particular about how that raked amount is achieved. Several poker sites actually have actually offered one-hand flip tournaments! Even on heads up ring tables, I don't think there's any fear of being accused of collusion, as there is no benefit (the site rakes more than it pays out in almost every situation).

SBR having different rollover requirements that are more arbitrary (instead of tied to recovering the "cost" of the points) throws a wrench in the works and makes it unique. Throw in the fact that it's a prize that's awarded for skill and not just for playing through, and the whole thing gets pretty ambiguous in my opinion.

If SBR wants to take a stand on it or believes it to be collusion, they should do two things imo: 1) award tourney winnings as part betpoints, part poker points which have to be played through and raked to be awarded and (more importantly) 2) pay more attention to the poker community so it doesn't collapse. This would remove the incentive for flipping as flippers would have no statistical advantage. If they did that, it would only be fair to add some other format to clear the rollover (like SNG tourneys) so people with different playing styles can enjoy it or mix it up at their choice.

For the record I'm cool with the way things are as I enjoy both tournament and ring games, but in fairness, I don't think flipping could be called collusion under the circumstances.

Good point

[no1here]

flipping never should of been allowed in the first place. I made post on the collusion to which SBR made me out to be a monkey. Why flipping is allowed is beyond me. I also see posters paying their wagers with rollover points playing one hand.

And for HHsilver.

You talk like you have some right to keep all poker points without risk.

SBR invests a lot of money into the poker promotion, because it wants it to grow. Part of that plan is to encourage new poker players (like you and me) to play those points in ring games to increase the overall activity. And to see us learn how to play and maybe graduate to playing cash games.

Hoarding your points so you had 40 unrolled cashes for more than 6 months and only ever risking them when you found a way to cheat is just a parasitic attitude. Like I said in the other thread, congrats n being so clever. But stop trying to act like you have integrity or are anything more than a drain on the rest of the poker community here.

And just so you understand the reality. Flipping is collusion as you are agreeing to play a certain way beforehand. SBR tolerates it because it would be too much time and pain to police. Don't kid yourself that you would last on any cash poker site playing that way for any reason.

Your little group was cheating the system with your big stack push pre-play plans. If you can't accept and understand that I can only assume you haven't learned and will take a shot at the next angle you spot too.

[no1here]

Why the need to judge everyone here? You practicing to be God? You always have an opinion and wrong here by far. Flipping is not fair nor right.

Seems like a pretty legit explanation hh, thanks for clarifying. I don't think most people have a problem with flipping itself, or think it's cheating, collusion etc; if you're not confident about your ring game play, flipping is certainly a safer alternative. The only objection I and others have is with the small minority (currently just 1 delusional poster) who can't admit his lack of ability to play ring and believes flipping is more profitable, despite earning fewer points from it

I've helped people flip through rollovers before, and folding when one of us did something wrong has happened, and was/is the right thing to do imo. I can't speak to hockey's experience as I've never even come close to being "scammed" flipping (and I honestly don't think there's anyone out there looking to do so), but you folding when he didn't follow instructions seems perfectly reasonable. Hockey does get a bit heated too, so 11 minutes is completely believable!

Thanks again for the explanation, you're still one of the good ones in my book

[Triple_D_Bet]

flipping never should of been allowed in the first place. I made post on the collusion to which SBR made me out to be a monkey. Why flipping is allowed is beyond me. I also see posters paying their wagers with rollover points playing one hand.

A stiff being made out to be a monkey is an insult to monkeys. Can't say I've seen any chip dumping, correlating with wagers or not, but you'd have a hard time distinguishing it from aggressive play without back-end analytics.

Why the need to judge everyone here? You practicing to be God? You always have an opinion and wrong here by far. Flipping is not fair nor right.

Practice makes perfect I've heard, besides which, it's how human beings learn from each other: share opinions and correct erroneous thinking...of course, some folks are less likely to learn than others

[Optional]

@Triple D Bet, I stand corrected about the "would not be allowed for any reason" comment.

SBR has said it is fine here so I guess it's moot anyway.


The arranging to sit and exploit the rollover error on the Omaha tables is all I would like to see people choose to stop doing. No one will be in trouble for it but the tables won't be there until its fixed if it continues.

[OldschoolGambler]

Long as SBR collects rake I can't see anything wrong with flipping. they are getting their cut. The rest of the points to be divided are the players points. Simple as that.

[Triple_D_Bet]

@Triple D Bet, I stand corrected about the "would not be allowed for any reason" comment.

SBR has said it is fine here so I guess it's moot anyway.


The arranging to sit and exploit the rollover error on the Omaha tables is all I would like to see people choose to stop doing. No one will be in trouble for it but the tables won't be there until its fixed if it continues.

No worries...I played the one-hand flip tourneys with my lock balance for a bit, which was pretty much play money

Agree on exploiting the rollover error, but I'd still have a hard time thinking less of anyone for doing it when the rules are kinda arcane to begin with.

Long as SBR collects rake I can't see anything wrong with flipping. they are getting their cut. The rest of the points to be divided are the players points. Simple as that.

Quite right...people flipping for small amounts probably pay more rake with their rollover than people play aggressive, because they pay capped rake more frequently without winning a big pot. If SBR wanted to encourage more table play, they'd increase rollover requirements as I mentioned above...but they'd run the risk of exceeding the amount of effort people are willing to put in for points. Maybe smaller requirements for smaller prizes?

[JAKEPEAVY21]

Long as SBR collects rake I can't see anything wrong with flipping. they are getting their cut. The rest of the points to be divided are the players points. Simple as that.

agree..

[hockey216]

Hockey claimed I folded becase I didn;t like my hole cards. He started "yelling" cheater this, cheater that over and over and over. I tried to explain why I folded but every time I started to type into chat, a barrage of his cheater posts filled the screen. He saiid he would make a thread - he did. I later looked up the time in hand history. It was 11 minutes from the start of the hand til the posting of the thread -- 11 minutes of constant yelling and not letting me explain.

Here's why I folded. It had nothing to do with hole cards. It was a reflex. It was what I would have done with any of my flipping friends, and what all of them would have done , after a "mistake". In that split second I forgot Hockey wasn't a flipping friend and this was new to him. I had told him to let me shove. When he didn't , I reacted, without thinking, the way I would have reacted with any of the regular flippers.

Hockey, I'm sorry. I see why you were mad. But I wish you had let me explain what happened.

no worries.

lots of people have scammed me on flipping.

you can see why it raised an eyebrow from my point of view, though.

we agree to flip, i stuff, and you fold.

i wasn't just being a dick. that does come across as a scam.

...especially when other players do shit like that on the reg.

i apologized in the other thread.

didn't realize omaha was rigged in terms of rollover and didn't see any incentive to doing that.

only logical explanation at the time was that it was a scam.

sorry, bud.

look forward to playing with you.

[Triple_D_Bet]

no worries.

lots of people have scammed me on flipping.

you can see why it raised an eyebrow from my point of view, though.

we agree to flip, i stuff, and you fold.

i wasn't just being a dick. that does come across as a scam.

...especially when other players do shit like that on the reg.

i apologized in the other thread.

didn't realize omaha was rigged in terms of rollover and didn't see any incentive to doing that.

only logical explanation at the time was that it was a scam.

sorry, bud.

look forward to playing with you.

When looking through some of your old threads, looks like you might have been right about miss_s_bets, doesn't look like he ever tried denying it

[hockey216]

Hackey216 is the biggest poker villain in the SBRdom.

when you lose 30,000 points to someone heads up in a single month, it's understandable how you see them as a villain.

[hockey216]

When looking through some of your old threads, looks like you might have been right about miss_s_bets, doesn't look like he ever tried denying it

miss s bets is a scammer. he did that shit several times one night. he would fold after he agreed to flip, he would ask to flip after cards out (if showed down he had premium hand, and it was obvious ploy once saw his cards). he would also say lets flip, then fold when he was first to act. shit went on many hands. i caught on and didn't fall victim anymore. miss s bets was scamming me.

he would say shit like, "thanks moron" and hit and run too immediately after you fell victim!

that dude was running a flipping scam. Money-back Guarantee!

this was all in hold'em too, so omaha error for rollover not applicable as an excuse.

miss s bets' and other players' scam makes it hard to believe other people when they agree to flip, and then fold.

...and you wonder why i think it's a scam when someone agrees to flip, and then folds.

[Triple_D_Bet]

miss s bets is a scammer. he did that shit several times one night. he would fold after he agreed to flip, he would ask to flip after cards out (if showed down he had premium hand, and it was obvious ploy once saw his cards). he would also say lets flip, then fold when he was first to act. shit went on many hands. i caught on and didn't fall victim anymore. miss s bets was scamming me.

he would say shit like, "thanks moron" and hit and run too immediately after you fell victim!

that dude was running a flipping scam. Money-back Guarantee!

this was all in hold'em too, so omaha error for rollover not applicable as an excuse.

miss s bets' and other players' scam makes it hard to believe other people when they agree to flip, and then fold.

...and you wonder why i think it's a scam when someone agrees to flip, and then folds.

Wasn't familiar with that, thanks for the explanation

[bobbywaves]

miss s bets is a scammer. he did that shit several times one night.

This scammer was a chick, thus the miss in front of username.

JoJo confirmed it: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...ost-outed.html

[downsouth]

This scammer was a chick, thus the miss in front of username.

JoJo confirmed it: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...ost-outed.html

Ha, I always thought it had something to do with Mississippi or Ole Miss

[hockey216]

This scammer was a chick, thus the miss in front of username.

JoJo confirmed it: http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...ost-outed.html

looks like miss s bets scammed sbr too. Eastern European fool created a duplicate account to scam sbr out of free points via multiple accounts.

sbr caught on and took away pro status on ghost account.

told you he was a scammer.

...in more ways than one.

I hope this adds some credibility to my story about miss s bets being a flipping scammer, and justifies my rational suspicion after other players commit the same acts as miss s bets.

i've been burned so many times by flipping scammers on here. it's only logical that the next time it happens that i raise an eyebrow.

sorry hhsilver. we are cool.

i just wanted everyone to know that i wasn't just trying to be a dickhead. i had a valid reason to be suspicious.

i hope everyone has a nice day!