[BeerDog99]

I have my opinions (obviously) but I would love some constructive criticism for this hand. I have been running ice cold lately and I see to run a lot of strong hands to even stronger hands lately.

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 2157056
$0 + $11 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 15:10:00 09/08/2012 ET
Table 'Table 33804', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 7 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 2 (playing) : blackbart, amount $2740, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : Kindred, amount $1800, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : 4uk4life, amount $1750, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : tkim8404, amount $2800, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : TheHOFF, amount $1870, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : tatddy, amount $1660, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : robotralph, amount $1780, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : dynamite140, amount $1800, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : Beerdog99, amount $1990, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
robotralph: Small Blind ($10)
dynamite140: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to Beerdog99: [6d, 6s]
Beerdog99: Call. ($20)
blackbart: Call. ($20)
Kindred: Fold. ($0)
4uk4life: Call. ($20)
tkim8404: Fold.. ($0)
TheHOFF: Raise. ($100)
tatddy: Fold. ($0)
robotralph: Fold.. ($0)
dynamite140: Fold. ($0)
Beerdog99: Call. ($80)
blackbart: Fold. ($0)
4uk4life: Call. ($80)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [4s, Qh, 6h]
Beerdog99: Check. ($0)
4uk4life: Check. ($0)
TheHOFF: Bet. ($100)
Beerdog99: Call. ($100)
4uk4life: Call. ($100)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Tc]
Beerdog99: Check. ($0)
4uk4life: Check. ($0)
TheHOFF: Check. ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [8s]
Beerdog99: Bet. ($400)
4uk4life: Call. ($400)
TheHOFF: Fold. ($0)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Beerdog99: Show Cards ($0)
4uk4life: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $1450, Rake $0
Summary 4uk4life: bet $600, won $1450, net $850, HoleCards [5s, 7s], HiHand [a straight, four to eight] [8s, 7s, 6h, 5s, 4s], won $1450 from main pot
Summary Beerdog99: bet $600, won $0, net $-600, HoleCards [6d, 6s]

[downsouth]

Id your going to play 6 6 there need to be more aggressive on flop when you hit.

[tatddy]

Like I said in the tourney I just didn't like the turn check. I think you have to lead out for at least a decent amount with the draws out there. I understand the desire to max value but I think you're getting called by a big Q, AK, and drawing hands there and you just can't give out free cards 3 handed in my opinion unless you're prepared to fold on the river to a bet.

[4uk4life]

If it makes you feel any better I went out with the same hand you did, 2 hands after you. QQ to Tony_come's Ahigh and he gets a flush and pretends to be cute afterwards lol

[BeerDog99]

I am playing a little gun-shy lately so I was trying to both keep the pot down a bit preflop and on the flop.

I felt pushing hard on the flop would really polarize my hand and fully commit me to the pot. Also, I did not want to miss any value if safe cards came on the turn and river.

Given I was out of position and the turn was safe, I was planning to checkraise on the turn as I figured another bet was coming.

When it didn't and the river 8 came, I figured I was still good except for a the two one-gap str8s that came.

Lastly, I did not expect either player to open limp with 5 7 or J 9 in their mid to late positions.

I guess that is best way I can explain my though process in the hand.

Thanks for your advice guys.

[BeerDog99]

If it makes you feel any better I went out with the same hand you did, 2 hands after you. QQ to Tony_come's Ahigh and he gets a flush and pretends to be cute afterwards lol

nope, don't feel any better....

[daneblazer]

Bet the turn. You have to extract value out of anyone chasing a flush and that's the last chance you'll have to do so if they have a flush or straight draw that busts. The call on the flop is okay because you don't want to scare hands like Qx away that will potentially give you action on later streets. 4uk could have easily whiffed on that flop and Hoff could be putting out a cbet. 57 is a tough hand to put anyone on there. 4uk was an awfully nice guy for just calling the river.

[tatddy]

Point is flush draw and multiple straight draws Beer. That's not a safe board. Sometimes you have to take the pot down and just accept the value that's there. You raise on flop and you could easily be representing a flush draw, while at the same time chasing a flush draw. You lead out on turn it could look like you're trying to stop the initial better from acting to preserve a draw that you might have or to "temperature" check to see if your Q or your 2nd pair is good. Either way a guy with a hand on the turn is gonna raise you if you lead out in many cases and therein lies your value.

[BeerDog99]

Good points Dane and Tatddy, thanks!

[sapidoc]

4uk4life: Call. ($400)

lol

[BeerDog99]

Ya the 4uk call might be been a little weak but to be fair, I think it is more believable that I am holding J 9 there as opposed to him holding 5 7.

Cheers.

[Emily_Haines]

I don't get why everyone wants to slow play big hands. If you check and somebody bets you need to check raises and start building the pot so you can get it all in preferably on the turn. Also money needs to go in the pot before scare cards come that will kill your action like a third heart.

[4uk4life]

Ya the 4uk call might be been a little weak but to be fair, I think it is more believable that I am holding J 9 there as opposed to him holding 5 7.

Cheers.

Yea there was a worry there that you had the J9, and at the same time I believe I just had a brain fart moment

[GUMMO77]

I agree 100% with both of Tatddy's posts.

I don't mind the flop check call, because that is a rather dry board. I personally think on the turn you have to lead out pretty big .. almost pot sized. One reason being it will throw off the other players, and anyone with a Q is almost certainly going to call and be drawing dead. The other reason is you are doing everything you can in giving a drawing hand thin value.

I personally try to get two handed when it comes to the river card and I flopped a set. Maybe in a cash game I would have tried your check-raise on the turn, but in the tournaments here on SBR, it's good to just get the chips when you can.

[Kaabee]

the only way he has J9 is if he has J9 of hearts. he is not calling that flop bet with J9 off.

[peacebyinches]

I actually like the way you played it, considering how early in the tournament it was. Leading out with a check after the flop was a good move IMO, but a sizeable re-raise (I'm thinking something in the area of 200-300 chips) after the bet from Hoff and since he was the initial raiser pre-flop it would probably still get you good value or at least scare 1 of your 2 opponents out of the pot. If a scary-ass card comes out on the turn and someone bets huge then you would still be able to get out of the hand without to much damage to your stack.

Sure, in retrospect even a small bet on the turn would have been the way to go, but I'm guessing you were planning on someone betting and then re-raising at that point, so I really don't think it was a ghastly way to play it.

[Halstad]

I don't get why everyone wants to slow play big hands. If you check and somebody bets you need to check raises and start building the pot so you can get it all in preferably on the turn. Also money needs to go in the pot before scare cards come that will kill your action like a third heart.

This. I don't play tournaments, but this is how I play almost 100% of the time.

[zam77]

I am playing a little gun-shy lately

That attitude with that hand is why I think you lost it. Many here think highly of you as an SBR poker player, as do I, but my honest opinion of your play in general is that you're primarily a conservative player and you "probably" could increase your hands won % if you became a little more aggressive and mixed it into your bag of tricks on a regular basis. That said... I imagine your game regularly turns profit so making any drastic overall change could prove to be costly to your game in all sorts of ways, but that's why ya gotta love SBR as a place to test the waters before taking it to real tables.

[thetrinity]

I like check riaisng the flop myself with 2 opponents. Id expect to see hearts way more then 57 tho at any rate. Him just calling on the river is pretty weak.

[4uk4life]

I like to play weak. I prefer to play scurd but it's not always possible.

[daneblazer]

So the general consensus here is to play it a little more aggressive. Whether that be check raise or bet the flop and/or turn, I don't think there's really a "wrong" way to play it as long as we try to get a little more in the pot.

I'm also not worried about J9 there at all. If he has J9 oh well. I'll just have to bust with a set of 6's on that board.

Don't level yourself thinking of complex strategies in these tournaments. Just play ABC Poker here.

[4uk4life]

So the general consensus here is to play it a little more aggressive. Whether that be check raise or bet the flop and/or turn, I don't think there's really a "wrong" way to play it as long as we try to get a little more in the pot.

I'm also not worried about J9 there at all. If he has J9 oh well. I'll just have to bust with a set of 6's on that board.

Don't level yourself thinking of complex strategies in these tournaments. Just play ABC Poker here.

99.9% of the time I woulda pushed that. I just clicked the call button instead of thinking first after the first thought was J9. I usually think of beerdog as rather aggressive when he has a hand so I assumed the worst and made the wrong decision

[thetrinity]

So the general consensus here is to play it a little more aggressive. Whether that be check raise or bet the flop and/or turn, I don't think there's really a "wrong" way to play it as long as we try to get a little more in the pot.

I'm also not worried about J9 there at all. If he has J9 oh well. I'll just have to bust with a set of 6's on that board.

Don't level yourself thinking of complex strategies in these tournaments. Just play ABC Poker here.

pretty good advice. guys slowplaying and trapping way too much here.

[downsouth]

Sorry, I was on my phone earlier so was brief. But I would generally agree with consensus.

Me personally and playing in SBR land, im betting flop and if turn doesnt make hand Im pushing stack at turn.

But then again, in SBR world my advice is to generally push stack.

[BeerDog99]

Everyone, thanks a lot for the ideas, thoughts and advice.

The irony is that I do mix things up a bit but my normal line is to be aggressive ABC with solid hands as 4uk notes.

Cheers!

[4uk4life]

Everyone, thanks a lot for the ideas, thoughts and advice.

The irony is that I do mix things up a bit but my normal line is to be aggressive ABC with solid hands as 4uk notes.

Cheers!

And a great job of it you do I might add

[BeerDog99]

Cheers 4uk.

By the way, if I was not too lazy, I would have edited out your name. My intention was not to get anybody to take shots at you.

Cheers!

[4uk4life]

Cheers 4uk.

By the way, if I was not too lazy, I would have edited out your name. My intention was not to get anybody to take shots at you.

Cheers!

Brother you don't ever have to edit my name. It takes a whole lot to bother me

[stefan084]

raise on turn because of the heart draw on flop

[jbart28]

Beerdog99: Call. ($20)

I stopped there.

You are UTG, either fold or raise the hand if you are going to play it from UTG.

everyone is at least 160 BB deep. Set mining here is fine but you need to define your hand from UTG rather than limp calling 4X.

You are being results oriented also.

Plus you cannot let 3 people "peel" on the turn. You hit your set 1/7.5 times, you need to get 3 streets of value. Extract like a dentist. Why else would you set mine with small PP early position of you aren;t taking advantage of implied odds.

I play for a living and am a very well known poster on 2p2 fwiw.

[Halstad]

raise on turn because of the heart draw on flop

There were no bets on the turn.

[The Giant]

Everyone is a genius after-the-fact.

I probably would have preferred a raise on the flop, just because it's a draw heavy board and it was a three-way pot, but the call isn't that bad, especially if you're playing against someone super aggressive.

Honestly though, you might have lost that hand no matter how you played it. Sometimes people just are unwilling to fold.

Beerdog, you've got to loosen up your game a little, especially on the ring tables. According to my copious notes, I've got you and 4uk4life as a couple of nitty girls. You've got to apply more pressure, otherwise you'll get run over by sharks like Tatddy.

[4uk4life]

Everyone is a genius after-the-fact.

I probably would have preferred a raise on the flop, just because it's a draw heavy board and it was a three-way pot, but the call isn't that bad, especially if you're playing against someone super aggressive.

Honestly though, you might have lost that hand no matter how you played it. Sometimes people just are unwilling to fold.

Beerdog, you've got to loosen up your game a little, especially on the ring tables. According to my copious notes, I've got you and 4uk4life as a couple of nitty girls. You've got to apply more pressure, otherwise you'll get run over by sharks like Tatddy.

Who you callin girls? I do tend to play tighter when I have no points like now. But when I actually have some to play with I can get a little crazy like the rest of you nuts

[The Giant]

Who you callin girls? I do tend to play tighter when I have no points like now. But when I actually have some to play with I can get a little crazy like the rest of you nuts

I said it with love.

[BeerDog99]

LOL, good feedback guys. and to the Giant, I have cultivated that "nitty-girl" image well ..... I am not as nitty as some folks here think I am, because of it, I have gotten away with a number of bluffs that most would not get away with.

But to your point and others, yes I probably have to loosen up a bit, my 3-4bet% is definitely too low.