[Hurls]

Since we have the best poker software out there can someone do an audit type thing (mod obviously) and see all the starting hands and catches stuff like that, I mean if they do them all for a certain amount of time then just post ratio's I know they wont use names but the ratio of say how many pocket pairs were dealt to a person, who gets the most crap starters just do it for the tourneys if that easier. I am sure most of us would be very curious to know why it seems that some people just always have great starters, and others have horrible on the constant. I know that this will not prove anything cause of everything else that goes into it but would love to know and I mean that printout since everthing is saved cant be that hard post.


and before all the poker geniuses come in and try to say variance, hand count, blah blah and the rest, this is just a question to see if it can be done or if they will do it. thx

[sweep]

Hurls- You know what cheers me up when I'm feelin' down?

[downsouth]

WHy would it matter. If it was rigged (and of course it is) why would a mod or any employee of "the corporation" be obliged to point out the obvious conspiracy to award certain players/types of hands. Part of it being rigged is people not knowing it. I bet if we could get to Costa Rica and SBR headquarters we could probably find an incriminating memo or two, maybe some top secret cover up docs.

Keep fighting the good fight and good luck

[HauntingTheHoly]

I had AA the other day and LOST. What's more, I just now had them AGAIN and lost AGAIN. Anyone who doesn't think this shit is rigged is a freakin' mo-ron!

[downsouth]

I had AA the other day and LOST. What's more, I just now had them AGAIN and lost AGAIN. Anyone who doesn't think this shit is rigged is a freakin' mo-ron!

I agree I remember sitting card dead on Saturday and finally pushing aq into your A 8 and without fail 8 flops right on out there.
Rigged

[Hurls]

I am just more interested in comparing the online to live poker and such just to see what the numbers are, i mean on the internet where you cant get a read from someone's face, how they act, etc.. numbers are important I'm sure they wont do it by why not ask? No harm in asking.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

I had AA the other day and LOST. What's more, I just now had them AGAIN and lost AGAIN. Anyone who doesn't think this shit is rigged is a freakin' mo-ron!

not commenting on you personally, but anyone who thinks it is rigged is a moron...I have played live and online for over 10 years plus dealt poker at The Venetian and another local shythole dive and seen it all...the same beats happen live as online...saying it is rigged is an excuse that poor players make..it would serve all you complainers better to work on your games instead of blaming the software..just my .02..

[Hurls]

not commenting on you personally, but anyone who thinks it is rigged is a moron...I have played live and online for over 10 years plus dealt poker at The Venetian and another local shythole dive and seen it all...the same beats happen live as online...saying it is rigged is an excuse that poor players make..it would serve all you complainers better to work on your games instead of blaming the software..just my .02..

While i am one of the biggest rig callers(havent in a while) i would just like more info because imho i think it would be useless to rig something on here onless there is something much bigger going on then I am aware of. I have also caught some great beats that i should have. None the less just trying to learn more about thats why i would like to get as much info as possible to help me out. If they dont want it out there than thats their call all day. My main question is just about plain dumb luck as it is more or less.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

While i am one of the biggest rig callers(havent in a while) i would just like more info because imho i think it would be useless to rig something on here onless there is something much bigger going on then I am aware of. I have also caught some great beats that i should have. None the less just trying to learn more about thats why i would like to get as much info as possible to help me out. If they dont want it out there than thats their call all day. My main question is just about plain dumb luck as it is more or less.

bad beats are the nature of the game..what fun would it be if hands always held up? It's called "Hold Em" for a reason..hoping your hand holds up against the chasers..poker is all luck in the short term and skill in the longterm..if you consistently put your chips in as a favorite, it is just a matter of time until you see positive results...over a large sample size you will win..

[Emily_Haines]

These same people that believe it is not rigged also think the easter bunny, tooth fairy, santa claus are real. Maybe the keebler elf will bring Jake a pot full of gold.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

These same people that believe it is not rigged also think the easter bunny, tooth fairy, santa claus are real. Maybe the keebler elf will bring Jake a pot full of gold.

[GUMMO77]

Who do you think SBR poker is rigged for? The Giant? Tatddy? EZMoney? Do you think they work for SBR? They are the big winners a lot of time (I know there are other big winners, but these are the first the come to mind).

[BeerDog99]

OK, I will add my 2cents into this "debate".

People need to separate the issue of the software being "rigged" and the software being compromised where a "super-user" can cheat the system.

I think that the people who call the software to be "rigged" are making moronic statements.

If it is "rigged", there needs to be a motivation and outcome that would support this. As many people people have pointed out, there is little SBR "company" value to rig the system that favors certain people over others or ones that "generate" more action as there is a cap to the rake taken. That said, if you believe it is rigged, please note real situations where there is significant and prolonged data showing this. The only thing that SBR could do to "try" and quell this issue is to publish any independent certification reports on their software and the RNG that supports the software. I am by no means an expert on this but I believe that type of openness might help quell the more reasonable posters concerns.

If the software is compromised and someone has "super-user" access, that would take more effort to prove and from what I have seen also very unlikely. That said, there have seemed to be some users (not going to bother listing the favorite names of this forum) that seem to know that their hand will hold up in the end. The facts (as I generally see them) is that those people generally have gone really hot and then their actions have caught up with them, meaning they have donked their chips back pretty quickly. I think the rollover requirement has contributed to this evening out of odds because the same donkey antics do not generally do well in ring games nor do the posters in question seem to be able run as hot in the ring games as they do in tourneys. You can draw your own conclusions but I believe that essentially makes my point.

What SBR can do to quell this concern? I do not think there is too much, other than publishing any specific reports or certifications on the security/integrity of their software. I do not think they should be publishing anything that specifies their security measures for obvious reasons but maybe they could publish when posters have been caught (e.g. saintjames was caught running a "bot" and therefore was banned....)

Overall, I think the people who have consistently won on this site are the people that have been able to put in the time and they are probably better at extracting value from their hands on a more consistent basis.

In my opinion there are a number of very good poker players on this site and they have been able to overcome the issues people have noted, so why have the people that are not successful been able to do it? The only thing I can reasonably think of is that the good players are working through the variance and the luck factors and coming out ahead because they are better than the rest of us.

For the record, I have been profitable over my time here at SBR but I consider myself on the bottom rung of the group of "better" players. I win some, I lose some, I get lucky and I get unlucky. On reflection on my game, I would say I find my luckier and un-luckier streaks are correlated directly to when I am not playing well overall.....

[BeerDog99]

Who do you think SBR poker is rigged for? The Giant? Tatddy? EZMoney? Do you think they work for SBR? They are the big winners a lot of time (I know there are other big winners, but these are the first the come to mind).

These guys, along with yourself and a number of other posters are in my opinion in the top group of poker players.

[GUMMO77]

Amazing post#13 Beerdog.

I couldn't have (literally) said it any better.

[Hurls]

These guys, along with yourself and a number of other posters are in my opinion in the top group of poker players.

stop being humble beerdog u are in that groupalso thanks for all the answers everyone has posted I am actually trying to figure out certain variances and such because I have thought it over and over and cant seem to find what the point of SBR having the system rigged is that is why I wanted to know all this. I just doesnt seem as plasusible as it used to when I first started playing. and I just like information so was trying to get some out. Now i know what a bot is but what exactly is a "Super User"?

[hhsilver]

beerdog, good post.

[BeerDog99]

Generally people have referred to "super-users" as guys who have somehow compromised the software to allow them to see other people's hole cards and/or know what cards are coming.

Another name for these accounts would be "GOD" accounts....

Also when I say compromised, it can be either from hacking or from other direct methods like having a programmatic access/account in the system that allows them to do these things.

Normally in well written and secure software, there are no GOD accounts that allow anyone with access to the running program to see live cards. This would only generally be valid in debugging software. The Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet scandal would be the best known example of this.

Cheers.

[Hurls]

Generally people have referred to "super-users" as guys who have somehow compromised the software to allow them to see other people's hole cards and/or know what cards are coming.

Another name for these accounts would be "GOD" accounts....

Also when I say compromised, it can be either from hacking or from other direct methods like having a programmatic access/account in the system that allows them to do these things.

Normally in well written and secure software, there are no GOD accounts that allow anyone with access to the running program to see live cards. This would only generally be valid in debugging software. The Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet scandal would be the best known example of this.

Cheers.

thx yea the ultimate bet thing I saw it on 20/20 and thats what they were doing called them god accounts, does anyone know if there has actually ever been a super user caught here or is it all just specualation

[BeerDog99]

thx yea the ultimate bet thing I saw it on 20/20 and thats what they were doing called them god accounts, does anyone know if there has actually ever been a super user caught here or is it all just specualation

Total speculation as far as I know.

[downsouth]

If beerdog is winning it's obviously rigged

[TheCentaur]

Hurls cut it out i won those chips fair and square

[Hurls]

Hurls cut it out i won those chips fair and square

i know u did

[tatddy]

Who do you think SBR poker is rigged for? The Giant? Tatddy? EZMoney? Do you think they work for SBR? They are the big winners a lot of time (I know there are other big winners, but these are the first the come to mind).

While I appreciate the kind words I think the hand below shows 2 things. 1) Obviously nothing is rigged in my favor 2) I'm not a top level player because my hand could have and should have been laid down.

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 2080836
$2/$4 NL Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 22:39:00 22/07/2012 ET
Table 'Burn Ban', 6 seats max, Real money
Seat 4 is the button. Small Blind $2, Big Blind $4
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 6
Seat 2 (playing) : tatddy, amount $467.30, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : jeffie, amount $338, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : thecentaur, amount $236.50, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : SBR_John, amount $165.20, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
SBR_John: Small Blind ($2)
tatddy: Big Blind ($4)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to tatddy: [4h, 4d]
jeffie: Call. ($4)
thecentaur: Call. ($4)
SBR_John: Call. ($2)
tatddy: Check. ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [4s, Qh, As]
SBR_John: Check. ($0)
tatddy: Bet. ($16)
jeffie: Raise. ($32)
thecentaur: Fold. ($0)
SBR_John: Fold. ($0)
tatddy: Raise. ($112)
jeffie: Raise. ($334)
tatddy: Call. ($222)
tatddy: Show Cards ($0)
jeffie: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [7d]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [6d]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
tatddy: Show Cards ($0)
jeffie: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $682, Rake $2
Summary tatddy: bet $354, won $0, net $-354, HoleCards [4h, 4d]
Summary jeffie: bet $370, won $682, net $312, HoleCards [Qd, Qs], HiHand [three of a kind, queens] [Qs, Qh, Qd, As, 7d], won $682 from main pot

[GUMMO77]

Obviously I don't think SBR is rigged, and that hand is pretty hard to lay down. Jeffie easily could have had AQ or AK and played it the same way.

You're still top 3 in my book, brotha.

[TheCentaur]

While I appreciate the kind words I think the hand below shows 2 things. 1) Obviously nothing is rigged in my favor 2) I'm not a top level player because my hand could have and should have been laid down.

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 2080836
$2/$4 NL Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 22:39:00 22/07/2012 ET
Table 'Burn Ban', 6 seats max, Real money
Seat 4 is the button. Small Blind $2, Big Blind $4
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 6
Seat 2 (playing) : tatddy, amount $467.30, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : jeffie, amount $338, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : thecentaur, amount $236.50, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : SBR_John, amount $165.20, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
SBR_John: Small Blind ($2)
tatddy: Big Blind ($4)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to tatddy: [4h, 4d]
jeffie: Call. ($4)
thecentaur: Call. ($4)
SBR_John: Call. ($2)
tatddy: Check. ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [4s, Qh, As]
SBR_John: Check. ($0)
tatddy: Bet. ($16)
jeffie: Raise. ($32)
thecentaur: Fold. ($0)
SBR_John: Fold. ($0)
tatddy: Raise. ($112)
jeffie: Raise. ($334)
tatddy: Call. ($222)
tatddy: Show Cards ($0)
jeffie: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [7d]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [6d]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
tatddy: Show Cards ($0)
jeffie: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $682, Rake $2
Summary tatddy: bet $354, won $0, net $-354, HoleCards [4h, 4d]
Summary jeffie: bet $370, won $682, net $312, HoleCards [Qd, Qs], HiHand [three of a kind, queens] [Qs, Qh, Qd, As, 7d], won $682 from main pot

Tat I know you dont want to hear this but I'm pretty sure I had a 4 that hand.

Also, the only way you can fold that hand after the flop is if Jeffie raised preflop, which he didn't. How can you put him for sure on QQ or AA, especially how wildly loose he had been prior to that? Just unlucky man.

A 4, AQ, Q 4, Q x spades, 10 K spades, all well within his range I think

[tatddy]

Tat I know you dont want to hear this but I'm pretty sure I had a 4 that hand.

Also, the only way you can fold that hand after the flop is if Jeffie raised preflop, which he didn't. How can you put him for sure on QQ or AA, especially how wildly loose he had been prior to that? Just unlucky man.

I hear you guys. On the surface it's a call especially in a ring game where you can just say fk it and reload if you got coolered. I was more upset with myself because I had a good read on what Jeffie was doing that game and I really felt that he limped UTG hoping to get a 3 bet in preflop. He didn't of course and the hand played out perfectly for him. But thing is when he 4 bet me after the flop I was 80% sure he had AA or QQ and was really close to folding. Ended up calling just from pure stubborness. Like I said...was really upset I just didn't go with my gut.

[TheCentaur]

I had a good read on what Jeffie was doing that game and I really felt that he limped UTG hoping to get a 3 bet in preflop.

Oh I didn't realize this. You suck pal, just give it up. JK