Small blind AA

[SharpAngles]

2/5 NL at the Commerce last night.

Wild table. A lot of 3 bets preflop and raising after with some "interesting" hands dragging pots. Everyone involved in this hand has at least 500 behind and has shown down less than stellar hands.

MP opens to 15. LP calls. Button calls. Hero raises AA to 40 out of small blind. 3 calls

Pot: 165

Flop: Ah Kc 10c

Hero check. MP check. LP check. Button bets 85. Hero calls. MP calls. LP fold.

Pot:420

Turn: 6x.

Hero bets 150. MP calls. Button pushes ~400....

............

I'll leave it there for now. Curious what some of you around here would do in this spot against 2 guys who are seemingly playing any two cards.

[Optional]

I'm a newb but would not have to think too long before calling I think. Based on your description of the play leading up.

[SharkAA]

How many hands pre and how aggro do MP & BTN play post-flop?

[katstale]

if its SBR somebody has straight and somebody is betting the flush

[SharpAngles]

Very aggro. Both seemed like the "creative" type, dragging pots with raggy 2 pairs.

I'll put it this way. I knew MP was drawing, prompting the donk bet into the turn, and I knew Button could have any two cards from garbage to the nuts and would probably be raising me.

[mpaschal34]

I would have folded preflop.

[SharpAngles]

if its SBR somebody has straight and somebody is betting the flush

Very sharp post. QJ out there about 100% of the time and river club comes maybe 95%.

[SharkAA]

Very aggro. Both seemed like the "creative" type, dragging pots with raggy 2 pairs.

I'll put it this way. I knew MP was drawing, prompting the donk bet into the turn, and I knew Button could have any two.

My guess is that the BTN has a flush draw, K10, maybe TT. MP seems a little suspicious to me. He is either slowplaying with a made straight OR he's actually drawing to a flush.
I am probably calling this one, since it's only QJ that beats me on the turn.

[rm18]

Why did you make it only 40? that is real small

[daneblazer]

Not a big fan of the x/call on the turn. Is one of your cards the Ac or Ah? and I assume the X on the turn wasn't a heart or club? Even without that information, as played I'm not folding the turn to an aggro-donk.

[Auto Donk]

I would have folded preflop.

this is straight up evidence of how sbr can warp our feeble donk minds and carry over into real world poker scenarios......

sadly, when I read the first post, my first thought, after losing with AA at least 18 out of the last 20 times I've played it on sbr, was "LAY THAT SHIT DOWN IMMEDIATELY" as well

[Auto Donk]

pot committed with boat outs (and a sure thing on sbr ace out) is kinda where i put you; figure ur behind but can suck out.....

if i had u on qq's, ida shoved the flop with my strongass suited gappers.... (haha)

interested to see whether u said "penetrate it" let's gamble autodonkstyle, or saved that last approx 250 to call

as for me, alot would depend on my mental state..... running hot, call; running bad, perhaps fold but probably call depending on my read of the shover/past experience with him, etc.,; running real fckin' bad, call -- so i can go home early and at least get laid by my wife and save the evening

[Auto Donk]

Why did you make it only 40? that is real small

easy, he wanted action.... don't want to waste aa by signalling everyone you have it, don't want to blow them out of the hand would be my suppposition..... when premiums come along u have to maximize your value

in any live 1/2, 1/3/ 2/5 game you enter, you can rapidly find that sweet spot bet that borders between inviting calls and stealing pots/keeping only premiums in..... usually a few rounds will let you know real quick, and very important to see how plyers react to your first 3-4 raises..... multiple calls each time means the locals sense you're there to ship em donkstlye; use whatever image your assigned by the table to your advantage......

[SharpAngles]

^Very nice posts Donk, IMO you're very right. Only thing I wouldn't agree with is how I've been running having anything to do with the decision but everyone's different there. I always play each hand like I have amnesia. Too easy to trick yourself if you feel like a loser or villain feels like hes on a heater.

Why did you make it only 40? that is real small

1.5-2x open is my standard 3 bet whether I have AA or 72o. You might have a point because I'm inviting action OOP but I was comfortable enough at this table to see a flop with the best of it over stealing 50 or so bucks. Didn't think all 3 would call but once MP did the rest were priced in with position on us.

Not a big fan of the x/call on the turn. Is one of your cards the Ac or Ah? and I assume the X on the turn wasn't a heart or club? Even without that information, as played I'm not folding the turn to an aggro-donk.

I assume you mean check call flop? To me that board is way too wet to be check raising with two to act behind me. Call and evaluate action is better out of position IMO. A push, or push then repush after my flop call gives me all the info I need for folding the set. HU probably but not this spot. I dont remember exact suits other than no A club. And yes the 6 was a non flush card.

[PhilTheTHRILL]

Very possible that one of these guys has A10 or AK.. Also K10 isn't absurd I guess.

I'm calling all day here tho. Even if someone has you beat with the cards as they lay after the turn, you have a decent chance of the board pairing and you cleaning up.

[PhilTheTHRILL]

Also, I could see one of these guys having KK or 10,10. If that were the case I feel like all the money would be in the middle.

How did the hand turn out? The anticipation is killing us.

[daneblazer]

Oops I meant check call flop. You're probably ahead there...think you have to bet that flop. Waaaaay too many cards you don't want to see. if these guys are as loose as it sounds, giving these guys a free card is almost criminal. Just my opinion...

[ArunSh]

Don't really like the way you played the hand preflop or on the flop. I would have raised much more preflop - with a raise and two callers behind that raise, thinning the field with a big raise seems like the way to go to me. Raising to only 40, you're giving everyone sick implied odds to call and crack you. On the flop, don't really care for the cold call, what is going to happen if a Q or J or club rolls off on the turn, that's going to put you in a very tough spot.

On the turn, I'm insta-calling this every time - not even a question. Only one hand beats you, and you have outs even against that while if you are ahead, you may well have him drawing totally/nearly dead. Together with the pot odds you're getting to even think about folding this would be insane imo.

Why did you even ask this question honestly, you can't really think that you should have folded do you? My guess is that you called, he showed QJ, and now you are playing the results not the situation, thinking in retrospect that you should have laid it down. If that's the case, you can't be so resultist about it - I mean does someone with KK who gets it allin preflop start second guessing their play because someone happened that time to show AA? As they say, if you never fold the best hand or never call with the second best hand, you definitely are not doing things correctly in poker.

[tomallen123]

Raise more PF
Lead flop
Lead turn

As played, easy call.

[boscokid]

Don't really like the way you played the hand preflop or on the flop. I would have raised much more preflop - with a raise and two callers behind that raise, thinning the field with a big raise seems like the way to go to me. Raising to only 40, you're giving everyone sick implied odds to call and crack you. On the flop, don't really care for the cold call, what is going to happen if a Q or J or club rolls off on the turn, that's going to put you in a very tough spot.

On the turn, I'm insta-calling this every time - not even a question. Only one hand beats you, and you have outs even against that while if you are ahead, you may well have him drawing totally/nearly dead. Together with the pot odds you're getting to even think about folding this would be insane imo.

Why did you even ask this question honestly, you can't really think that you should have folded do you? My guess is that you called, he showed QJ, and now you are playing the results not the situation, thinking in retrospect that you should have laid it down. If that's the case, you can't be so resultist about it - I mean does someone with KK who gets it allin preflop start second guessing their play because someone happened that time to show AA? As they say, if you never fold the best hand or never call with the second best hand, you definitely are not doing things correctly in poker.

this about sums it up

[SharpAngles]

Don't really like the way you played the hand preflop or on the flop. I would have raised much more preflop - with a raise and two callers behind that raise, thinning the field with a big raise seems like the way to go to me. Raising to only 40, you're giving everyone sick implied odds to call and crack you. On the flop, don't really care for the cold call, what is going to happen if a Q or J or club rolls off on the turn, that's going to put you in a very tough spot.

On the turn, I'm insta-calling this every time - not even a question. Only one hand beats you, and you have outs even against that while if you are ahead, you may well have him drawing totally/nearly dead. Together with the pot odds you're getting to even think about folding this would be insane imo.

Fair points but against guys who call with random weird hands why am I thinning the field? Because one might out flop me? Or pair up and river me? That's being results oriented IMO. Give me action in these spots every time please.

Why did you even ask this question honestly, you can't really think that you should have folded do you? My guess is that you called, he showed QJ, and now you are playing the results not the situation, thinking in retrospect that you should have laid it down. If that's the case, you can't be so resultist about it - I mean does someone with KK who gets it allin preflop start second guessing their play because someone happened that time to show AA? As they say, if you never fold the best hand or never call with the second best hand, you definitely are not doing things correctly in poker.

Lol thanks for the credit but no this isn't a bad beat thread. The reason I ask is because I called and MP called behind me with 1010 and button rolled KK, then they both argued with me that it was a horrible call on my part. They said the only hands pushing are favorites and action behind made it real bad. I stacked their chips and laughed while they explained this but thought about it again this morning and was curious what you boys would say.

IMO it was a marginal push and just stupid call after mine, but didn't tell them that obv.

[SharpAngles]

Oops I meant check call flop. You're probably ahead there...think you have to bet that flop. Waaaaay too many cards you don't want to see. if these guys are as loose as it sounds, giving these guys a free card is almost criminal. Just my opinion...

Yeah free cards are bad and I don't love my flop play but in this case I wanted info from two hands behind me. Don't know why but I sensed c/r from MP and he might've gotten me off my set with his smaller set. Then I'd puke when button stacks him with KK lol. Thankfully he must've feared the straight and called flop.

[SharpAngles]

And for anyone familiar with LA poker, the table started screaming king and cursed the dealer when we didn't hit the BBJackpot It was up to 21k with 50/25/25 loser/winner/table so would've been the nicest bad beat I've ever had.

[PhilTheTHRILL]

Fair points but against guys who call with random weird hands why am I thinning the field? Because one might out flop me? Or pair up and river me? That's being results oriented IMO. Give me action in these spots every time please.



Lol thanks for the credit but no this isn't a bad beat thread. The reason I ask is because I called and MP called behind me with 1010 and button rolled KK, then they both argued with me that it was a horrible call on my part. They said the only hands pushing are favorites and action behind made it real bad. I stacked their chips and laughed while they explained this but thought about it again this morning and was curious what you boys would say.

IMO it was a marginal push and just stupid call after mine, but didn't tell them that obv.

So you are telling me I was exactly right on this? lol thats what I said earlier. Which in your defense, means those fools played the hand horribly as well. Don't really see how they can hate on you for it. Only reason they are hating is because you detroyed them.

[daneblazer]

Thanks for posting the hand. Wish we had more like it

[ArunSh]

Fair points but against guys who call with random weird hands why am I thinning the field? Because one might out flop me? Or pair up and river me? That's being results oriented IMO. Give me action in these spots every time please.

Yes because one might out flop you. AA is a big favorite heads up vs every other hand, but against three hands it's equity is way lower. And it's way too likely that if you flop the best hand you won't win much post flop (not like they aren't going to suspect you have a big over pair) while if you get out flopped, you are very likely to lose your whole stack. Again, giving them implied odds like that is super dangerous whereas if you reraise to like 80 preflop, very likely only one of them will call which is the best situation.

Lol thanks for the credit but no this isn't a bad beat thread. The reason I ask is because I called and MP called behind me with 1010 and button rolled KK, then they both argued with me that it was a horrible call on my part. They said the only hands pushing are favorites and action behind made it real bad. I stacked their chips and laughed while they explained this but thought about it again this morning and was curious what you boys would say.

IMO it was a marginal push and just stupid call after mine, but didn't tell them that obv.

Frankly I'm having a lot of trouble believing this story. Set over set over set? And then when you call an allin with top set, your opponents are giving you grief about what a horrible call you made? Either something isn't true with this story, or you are playing in one of the weirdest/softest 2/5 games ever.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Frankly I'm having a lot of trouble believing this story. Set over set over set? And then when you call an allin with top set, your opponents are giving you grief about what a horrible call you made? Either something isn't true with this story, or you are playing in one of the weirdest/softest 2/5 games ever.

If you play a lot of live poker (which I do)... you'd believe Sharpy's HH here 100% (which I do).

The Eeyores that play @ casinos is staggering.

I remember a thread over a year ago by SBR poster bettilimbroke where he was whining about how you can't make any money in live casino 1/2, (~2/5) games b/c the pots were consistently like 30-40 bucks and with rake it was pointless.

All I could think at the time was: "Where the hell is this guy playing? His buddy's garage?"
Because if you actually play at a real casino, you'd know it wasn't unusual to have rather large pots at even 1/2 NL (let alone 2/5 and up).

Online players (as a general rule) are so much better players than casino donks it'd make your head spin.
(Not unusual at all to buy in for ~200 @ 1/2 and become a thousandaire in a few hours)

[rm18]

3 betting to 40 is ok if it is just an open but when two people call I think you have to make it bigger.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

3 betting to 40 is ok if it is just an open but when two people call I think you have to make it bigger.

THIS ^^

(but thankfully it all worked out)

[daneblazer]

If you play a lot of live poker (which I do)... you'd believe Sharpy's HH here 100% (which I do).

The Eeyores that play @ casinos is staggering.

I remember a thread over a year ago by SBR poster bettilimbroke where he was whining about how you can't make any money in live casino 1/2, (~2/5) games b/c the pots were consistently like 30-40 bucks and with rake it was pointless.

All I could think at the time was: "Where the hell is this guy playing? His buddy's garage?"
Because if you actually play at a real casino, you'd know it wasn't unusual to have rather large pots at even 1/2 NL (let alone 2/5 and up).

Online players (as a general rule) are so much better players than casino donks it'd make your head spin.
(Not unusual at all to buy in for ~200 @ 1/2 and become a thousandaire in a few hours)

Yea I believe it. Sustaining a living at 1/2 live may be a miserable existence but I've seen it done. I could tell some pretty good stories, but I'll save it for another thread... I've got to find the one about the Russian, Dennis.

[downsouth]

Probably push it up to 75 preflop in attempt to iso one hand heads up. Glad it worked out well for you.

[ArunSh]

If you play a lot of live poker (which I do)... you'd believe Sharpy's HH here 100% (which I do).

The Eeyores that play @ casinos is staggering.

I remember a thread over a year ago by SBR poster bettilimbroke where he was whining about how you can't make any money in live casino 1/2, (~2/5) games b/c the pots were consistently like 30-40 bucks and with rake it was pointless.

All I could think at the time was: "Where the hell is this guy playing? His buddy's garage?"
Because if you actually play at a real casino, you'd know it wasn't unusual to have rather large pots at even 1/2 NL (let alone 2/5 and up).

Online players (as a general rule) are so much better players than casino donks it'd make your head spin.
(Not unusual at all to buy in for ~200 @ 1/2 and become a thousandaire in a few hours)

I used to play live a lot so I definitely have my share of experience. And I know online players are generally much, much better than live players.

But that's not really my point, are you really saying that you often see hands where one player has AA, another KK, a third TT, and the flop comes AKT? Of course that's possible, but sure will not happen almost ever. And then, assuming it did, the KK and TT guys get their $ allin with medium sets, and then tell the guy who went allin with top set that he made a horrible play?? Add to that that these are people he claims are 3-betting wildly and such, yet the button with KK just cold called the original raise preflop and then also cold called Sharp's 3-bet preflop? I don't know this whole thing collectively just sounds very far-fetched to me.

[SharpAngles]

ArunSh,

Ive seen you play a bit and respect your opinion, but come on out to LA and play some 2/5 at the Commerce, Bike, Hollywood park, Hustler or any other cardroom out here and tell me you don't believe the story. Commerce had at least 10 2/5 tables going and god knows how many baby 40NL games with similar play. Only difference between rooms is the reaction of the villains. At the Bike they'd probably be more polite, Hustler I get insulted more and Hollywood park I get stabbed at a minimum.

[leetreaper]

Well, I'm gonna skip all the brokedikk replies, but wtf are doing man??? You flop trips and a drawing board with 3 callers and check???
You gotta bet at least a 100 there with 165 inside then re-evalute on the turn...just terrible, you shouldn't be playing 2-5, no offence.

[BiTeMe UsAdOj]

Arun, of course this particular hand was not the norm and, indeed, peculiar... BUT... the weird longshot type scenarios I've seen happen in live play makes me know this hand is 100% factual; peeps that always whine about online poker being rigged (not you, others) reveal themselves as poker rooks that don't play live -- anyone that plays live consistently would know online happenings are no different than live.

I brought up the casino players being donks specifically to address your 'puzzlement' as to why they would question Sharpy's play and call it a horrible play: BECAUSE THEY'RE EEYORES!!! They are typical wild casino poker cowboys that would have a hard time distinguishing good play from bad if their life depended on it.

Which explains the "why" of your 'pondering'... which seemed to be your point.