[superjeff24]

It sounds like you would lose money no matter what level you played or what rake was charged. How much better does your life get if you were losing less? You'd probably just stay there longer till you lost the rest too.

[poker4fun]

Beerdog no offense but you're the ultimate fish, $120 AVERAGE AT 1/2 ARE YOU FUKIN KIDDING? I'll move to your city if they have 120 avg 1/2 games.

You might get lucky and stumble on a 50-60 average if you get some drunk fish on a friday night but that's bout it, the weekday average is closer to a depressing 30 and I've played at dumpholes like Palomar cardroom in San Diego where it was closer to 20 (never went back)

A 20 pot will have 4 bucks missing, the 1 dollar bad beat and 3 for the rake, if it goes over 30 they take another dollar at least and most often just "round up" to 5 for the rake so they dont have to worry about the rake anymore, sure I can be the ultimate prick and say theres only 32 in the pot and you raked 5 instead of $3.20 (which they couldnt even rake to begin with as they only rake in even dollars) I guess but the thing of it is I dont give a **** how much they're raking when Im not in the pot (what difference does it make to me whether they swipe an extra dollar or not from Joe Blow) and when Im in the pot Im worried about my hand not watching the guy rake 4 or 5 bucks and callin him out on it.

Besides they change dealers every fuckin 30 minutes so am I going to just correct the rake of every hand I win every fuckin 30 minutes a new dealer comes in, all this shit is fukin standard you see, watch the dealer like a hawk next time you play and see how accurate that "10%" really is, these pricks just want to get to max rake so they can get back focused so they dont misdeal and get fired. Aint nobody firing em for rakin too much I can assure you

HEY JOE SORRY ABOUT THAT PRICK STOPPIN THE TABLE TO BITCH ABOUT A DOLLAR, I HAD TO GO OVER THERE AND COUNT THE POT AND TOSS A DOLLAR BACK TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE I GAVE A SHIT, YOU'RE DOIN A GREAT JOB JOE, YOU'RE REALLY STICKIN THAT RAKE RIGHT UP THOSE PRICKS ASSES, YOU FILLED THAT FUCKIN BUCKET TO THE BRIM AND THOSE PRICKS ARE BEATEN THEIR BRAINS OUT TRYIN TO WIN SOME 30 DOLLAR POTS AND WONDERING WHERE ALL THEIR MONEY WENT, EVERY ONE OF EM DOWN A 100 AND NOBODY UP

I am not saying I am the world's best poker player, but I play at the casino fairly regularly. I work rotating shifts so I often will play on a Monday or Tuesday, or a Friday and Saturday depending on my days off that week. While I agree that the weekends are far more profitable due to absolute maniac players that will bet relentlessly and not pay attention at all to the fact that I have mostly folded for an hour and am suddenly check raising the **** out of them. The thing that I see missing from most people's comments here is something I see regularly happen in 1/2 NL games I play in. The smart players adjust to the style of play of the table. Meaning, on a Friday or Saturday night I play Tight Aggressive and I only need to win a few solid hands to make decent money ($200-$400 on a $200.00 buy in) over a 4-6 hour session.

When I play on a Monday or Tuesday, if the table is full of regulars or "Nits" as I have heard people on here call the more timid players, then I loosen up. Sure I run the risk of getting burned, however the thing about "Nits" is, they are predictable. If I bet to raise the overall value of the pot, one of two things will happen, they will generally fold, or they will either call/raise giving me insight into the fact that they clearly have a strong hand and I can get away from my losing hands more easily. Sure I'd rather not pay a rake at all, however, seeing as I am only paying rake on hands I am winning the best way to neutralize the rake is to win bigger pots. I haven't played at many 1/2 NL tables where the avg pot is as low as you say "$20-$30". I would say that the average where I play is closer to $50-$60. Also I find, going against the grain and playing a little looser and more aggressive at tight table is infectious and often the entire table loosens a little (which I when I tighten up).

Just a thought. Hopefully I won't be insulted for my opinion, but I have found from my modest experiences playing live $1/2 NL that while I occasionally get cracked due to a poorly played hand, or a suck out/bad beat, I often win 1-2 times my buy in. If I lose, it is generally more because I lost $100-$200 playing blackjack while my name is on the waiting list for my poker game... When will I learn! (FYI I play at Casino Niagara - Ontario Canada)

[lunchbawks]

the best way to neutralize the rake is to win bigger pots

casino poker is for suckers.. is it really that difficult to get 4-9 buddies together and play a homegame?

w/friends or online is the only way to play, otherwise you're cheating yourself out of money

[thetrinity]

the best way to neutralize the rake is to win bigger pots

casino poker is for suckers.. is it really that difficult to get 4-9 buddies together and play a homegame?

w/friends or online is the only way to play, otherwise you're cheating yourself out of money

depends on the casino

[poker4fun]

the best way to neutralize the rake is to win bigger pots

casino poker is for suckers.. is it really that difficult to get 4-9 buddies together and play a homegame?

w/friends or online is the only way to play, otherwise you're cheating yourself out of money

It isn't that it is that difficult to get friends together to play, however, the people I find in the casino are far more profitable than my friends. Typically my home games are low stakes ($20 buy in playing tournament style). I don't really want to take lots of money from my friends in a friendly home game, those are just for fun times with buddies. Also, I have played online, and while you get far more hands per hour, I feel it is missing something in the feel of the game. I am no Daniel Negreanu, but I have saved myself some big defeats by getting a solid read on an opponent in a live game.

I guess it all just depends on your expectations. I don't plan on making 50K a year playing low $ NL poker, but the nice things about those tables are that the good players at those tables are obviously solid players, and the weak players are obviously bad players. With the exception of me and another good players both having monsters, I don't even feel like I am playing against them most of the time. I am waiting for the one or two big pots an hour that the bad players will easily pay me on a night when I am getting even decent cards.

[milwaukee mike]

It isn't that it is that difficult to get friends together to play, however, the people I find in the casino are far more profitable than my friends. Typically my home games are low stakes ($20 buy in playing tournament style). I don't really want to take lots of money from my friends in a friendly home game, those are just for fun times with buddies. Also, I have played online, and while you get far more hands per hour, I feel it is missing something in the feel of the game. I am no Daniel Negreanu, but I have saved myself some big defeats by getting a solid read on an opponent in a live game.

I guess it all just depends on your expectations. I don't plan on making 50K a year playing low $ NL poker, but the nice things about those tables are that the good players at those tables are obviously solid players, and the weak players are obviously bad players. With the exception of me and another good players both having monsters, I don't even feel like I am playing against them most of the time. I am waiting for the one or two big pots an hour that the bad players will easily pay me on a night when I am getting even decent cards.

the other players might be much more profitable, but the rake is an absolute killer

in a $1/2 with a 10%/$5 rake, the rake and tips are about $8/hour

so in a 5 hour session you're out $40, awfully tough to overcome that in the long run even against very weak players

[daneblazer]

After rake, tipping, and swings/variance, a good player can typically expect to win about $10 per hour give or take a few $ in the long run playing in a 1/2 game with a capped buy in of 100bb. That's $400 a week playing 40 hours a week or a little more than 20k a year. Can someone live off of 20k a year? Sure. It's a hard earned 20k though.

[daneblazer]

Another thing to take into consider is comps. If you're just a break even player and put in 40 hours a week, it's possible you'll get comped a room and food quite often. So even if you're making a few K a year, many of your expenses will be paid for by the casino.

[milwaukee mike]

After rake, tipping, and swings/variance, a good player can typically expect to win about $10 per hour give or take a few $ in the long run playing in a 1/2 game with a capped buy in of 100bb. That's $400 a week playing 40 hours a week or a little more than 20k a year. Can someone live off of 20k a year? Sure. It's a hard earned 20k though.

wow expectations of being ahead 9 big blinds/hour over the long run? ($18-8/hour to get to $10/hr net)

that's crazy

30 hands/hour, 20% playable at best, that's 6 or 7 hands per hour

so average expectation would have to be a profit of more than one big blind per hand played. no matter what the opposition i think that is unattainable

[tatddy]

Another thing to take into consider is comps. If you're just a break even player and put in 40 hours a week, it's possible you'll get comped a room and food quite often. So even if you're making a few K a year, many of your expenses will be paid for by the casino.

Sounds like a guy who lives off off the betpoints for pizza program. Come to SF, Dane, I will take you out for a meal. Bring the wife. My treat.

[daneblazer]

wow expectations of being ahead 9 big blinds/hour over the long run? ($18-8/hour to get to $10/hr net)

that's crazy

30 hands/hour, 20% playable at best, that's 6 or 7 hands per hour

so average expectation would have to be a profit of more than one big blind per hand played. no matter what the opposition i think that is unattainable

$10 may be a high, but I don't think $8 is impossible with good table selection. If you are planning to sit down with a bunch of nits and grinders and hammer out $10 an hour, then it's going to be tough, but against a bunch of tourists or spewey lags it's possible. That's why table selection is so important. There's so many factors to consider...amount of rake varies, bb jackpot varies, amount people tip varies, comps, skill level varies, it's hard to put a definite win rate to it, but I'm certain it can be done. The guys I know make a living playing 1/2 aren't exactly driving Beamers and eating steak every night. It's not a life style I'd want to live, but they get by.

[milwaukee mike]

$10 may be a high, but I don't think $8 is impossible with good table selection. If you are planning to sit down with a bunch of nits and grinders and hammer out $10 an hour, then it's going to be tough, but against a bunch of tourists or spewey lags it's possible. That's why table selection is so important. There's so many factors to consider...amount of rake varies, bb jackpot varies, amount people tip varies, comps, skill level varies, it's hard to put a definite win rate to it, but I'm certain it can be done. The guys I know make a living playing 1/2 aren't exactly driving Beamers and eating steak every night. It's not a life style I'd want to live, but they get by.

completely agree. we were thinking apples and oranges, if you're in vegas/atlantic city with a bunch of tourists then i think you're right.

here in milwaukee there aren't many really weak players any more, 8 or 9 years ago they made up the majority of the poker room

[thetrinity]

can you beat 1/2 nl live. of course

can you live off it. hell no unless you want to live in a cardboard box

[poker4fun]

the other players might be much more profitable, but the rake is an absolute killer

in a $1/2 with a 10%/$5 rake, the rake and tips are about $8/hour

so in a 5 hour session you're out $40, awfully tough to overcome that in the long run even against very weak players

Well, the original thread asks why people even bother to play 1/2 NL in a casino. for me it is because I am comfortable risking losing $200.00 in a session, if I lose it won't impact my life any. Playing with enough scratch to go up a level would be a little more difficult for me since I have a mortgage, life, bills etc.

I do however find that I win far more often than I lose. I don't keep detailed statistics, but I'd say I leave up money in probably 80% of the sessions I play in. usually I am up at least one buy in ($200.00). Sometimes significantly more, sometimes I bust. $40.00 over a 5 hour session does not seem like that much to me. I can see how if you figure over a full year of 40hrs/week of playing poker that number would be a huge amount paid in rake, but again, my thought process is that I am paying the rake with someone else's money since I only pay when I am winning. The avg pots that I win in my Casino are more than $40.00, but for arguments sake, lets say the average is $40.00. That means one winning hand over the course of a five hour session is used to pay for my rake and tips etc... The way I figure, if I can't be up more than one winning pot in a 5 hour session (at least most of the time), then I really shouldn't be playing poker at all because $1/2 NL is not such a skilled game. In the higher limits the rake is less of an impact, however the talent at the tables is much higher also and, the added pressure that comes with playing for more money makes a lot of people play differently than they normally would.

Anyway, to answer the question asked in the thread, I play $1/2 NL in the casino because I find it enjoyable, the buy in is easily affordable for me, and I make money far more often than I lose it.

[CoachJB]

No one said you were ever going to get rich doing this. But you should easily be able to make 1500-2000 a month by playing 3-4 nights a week, plus get all your meals and drinks paid for. All those hours you log at a table you will eventually hit one of those bad beats. It's good to get out of the house and actually talk to other people once in a while.

"you will eventually hit one of those bad beats" lol you're clueless

[rm18]

completely agree. we were thinking apples and oranges, if you're in vegas/atlantic city with a bunch of tourists then i think you're right.

here in milwaukee there aren't many really weak players any more, 8 or 9 years ago they made up the majority of the poker room

players in Milwaukee suck, I have made over $100 an hour at 1/2 at Potowotomi but I only played about 9 hours lifetime

[5teamparlay]

Great thread!!! Being a poker dealer of 20 plus years. Thread says a lot of stuff I think to myself. Don't know how people do it for hours on end , year after year...

[milwaukee mike]

players in Milwaukee suck, I have made over $100 an hour at 1/2 at Potowotomi but I only played about 9 hours lifetime

My guess is you were playing late at night friday/sat if you found bad players. My problem with those games is it's easy to play against 1 or 2 lunatics at the table, but not 5. I call that donkey bingo since the poker room used to be connected to the bingo hall, and 8 years ago nl at potawatomi was an all-in fest

[rm18]

wednesday night middle of night, plus was getting very lucky of course but didn't think players were very good